Budget 2015 - effect on property market

El_Dangeroso

CGT exemption gone.

DIRT Exemption on those saving for a (up to 20% deposit).

Possible future penalties on hoarding zoned residential development land.

I think I agree with these things, could have gone further but overall could have been worse.

Meathlass

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

CGT exemption gone.

DIRT Exemption on those saving for a (up to 20% deposit).

Possible future penalties on hoarding zoned residential development land.

I think I agree with these things, could have gone further but overall could have been worse.

The DIRT one is interesting. I wonder how they'll police it.

JimsAlterEgo

Meathlass wrote: »

The DIRT one is interesting. I wonder how they'll police it.

you usually need a solicitor to buy a house so I guess there will be some legal document to complete to get an exemption or refund (if already paid)

Meathlass

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

you usually need a solicitor to buy a house so I guess there will be some legal document to complete to get an exemption or refund (if already paid)

yes, sorry complete brain meltdown here. I was thinking of people saving, saying it was for a house, not paying DIRT and then spending it on other things.

A refund system would make a lot more sense. Thank God I don't work in Revenue!

crisco10

How far back will you be able to claim do you reckon? have half of deposit saved but assume it will only apply to FY15 and on savings...

D3PO

you forgot to mention home renovation scheme extended to landlords. Great to stop black market tradesmen doing work and also likely to improve the quality of some accomadation available to renters.

Also rent a room revenue increased to 12K bit strange really. Dont think there are too many rent a roomers taking in over 10k

gmisk

D3PO wrote: »

Also rent a room revenue increased to 12K bit strange really. Dont think there are too many rent a roomers taking in over 10k

Owner rents out 2 rooms in big house....can now charge 500 euro per person per room as (before it would have been roughly 415 euro max)
I know 2 of my friends who rent that are in an arrangements like this.

D3PO

gmisk wrote: »

Owner rents out 2 rooms in big house....can now charge 500 euro per person per room as (before it would have been roughly 415 euro max)
I know 2 of my friends who rent that are in an arrangements like this.

yeah i guess on thinking about it your right.

godtabh

D3PO wrote: »

you forgot to mention home renovation scheme extended to landlords. Great to stop black market tradesmen doing work and also likely to improve the quality of some accomadation available to renters.

Also rent a room revenue increased to 12K bit strange really. Don't think there are too many rent a roomers taking in over 10k

How does the landlords renovation work? Cant a landlord claim back the expenses via tax returns?

D3PO

godtabh wrote: »

How does the landlords renovation work? Cant a landlord claim back the expenses via tax returns?

not all renovations were previously tax deductable.

e.g if a LL wanted to put in double glazed windows instead of single glazed this would not have been tax deductable on their returns.

However this kind of thing would fall under the home renovation scheme

godtabh

right. Not that it affects me but I didn't appreciate the difference.

L1011

The FTB scheme may encourage some people to hold off, particularly if specific marketed fixed term accounts turn up. Hopefully takes a little heat out.

athtrasna

D3PO wrote: »

yeah i guess on thinking about it your right.

Bear in mind the rent a room limit includes all money from the lodger including bills

TheDriver

Most FTB probably wont have lot saved plus interest rates are crap so DIRT is small.

handlemaster

Dont forget property tax was reduced recently also. I think it will slow for early new year then as people realise it will be two years before new stock comes online prices will take off.

RoseBlossom

crisco10 wrote: »

How far back will you be able to claim do you reckon? have half of deposit saved but assume it will only apply to FY15 and on savings...

Four years apparently

NinjaTruncs

Is the DIRT rebate only for FTBs?

Edit. Read the above doc. Only ftbs

spockety

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Is the DIRT rebate only for FTBs?

Yes.

What is a first time purchaser for the purposes of this Scheme?
A first time purchaser for the purposes of the scheme means a person who, at the time of the home
purchase, has not, either individually or jointly with any other person or persons, previously purchased
or previously built directly or indirectly on his or her own behalf, any other house or apartment.

El_Dangeroso

RoseBlossom wrote: »

Four years apparently

These four years are 2014 (from now), 2015, 2016 and 2017.

No backdating.

TheDriver

What if u have married couple buying where one is a ftb but other ones house was sold prior to marriage??

spockety

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

These four years are 2014 (from now), 2015, 2016 and 2017.

No backdating.

It says any DIRT paid in the previous 48 months before the date of the conveyancing..

Relief will apply to interest paid at any time in a period of 48 months ending on the date of
the purchase of a home.
The scheme will be in place from 14th
October 2014 to the end of 2017.

That reads to me like if you make a claim on the 15th October you would take into account DIRT paid over the previous 48 months.

Otherwise the wording would have been something like "any DIRT paid after the 14th October up to a maximum of 48 months".

Also the fact that the mechanism for it is a manual claim to Revenue, supplying supporting documentation, would seem to suggest it applies from tomorrow.

RoseBlossom

spockety wrote: »

It says any DIRT paid in the previous 48 months before the date of the conveyancing..
...
That reads to me like if you make a claim on the 15th October you would take into account DIRT paid over the previous 48 months.

That was my reading of it as well.

If they were only counting DIRT on savings from midnight to 31 Dec 2017, it would not make sense to refer to 48 months, as there are only 3 years, 2.5 months between now and the end of the scheme. The inclusion of the Q&A about having signed contracts but not closed yet would suggest the same.

El_Dangeroso

I stand corrected!

L1011

handlemaster wrote: »

Dont forget property tax was reduced recently also.

In a limited number of counties only (although pretty much all the ones where the market's gone nuts).

Some of the reductions - Laois's I think being the lowest - were as low as 1%!

MouseTail

Cant believe no one has mentioned the 2.2bn for social housing. This isn't just for new construction, it is also for purchasing existing units on the market. That makes the State a huge cash buyer.

NinjaTruncs

MouseTail wrote: »

Cant believe no one has mentioned the 2.2bn for social housing. This isn't just for new construction, it is also for purchasing existing units on the market. That makes the State a huge cash buyer.

I'd imagine they will be buying from NAMA, not sure where else they can buy existing stock. I can't see them bidding on a one by one basis of properties that come onto the market.

MouseTail

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

I'd imagine they will be buying from NAMA, not sure where else they can buy existing stock. I can't see them bidding on a one by one basis of properties that come onto the market.

certainly they will be buying from NAMA, but also historically they have bought one by one housing. It ensures integration and avoidance of ghetto type developments. I can see them being a big player in the market.

Zamboni

RoseBlossom wrote: »

Four years apparently

I can't get past the first word typo in that document.
I simply cannot handle the lack of professionalism by civil servants

Dubh Geannain

Meh. Doing some calcs this morning we're due a refund of just over €1.2k. Better than a kick in the stones I suppose. A bit annoyed that I didn't hunt for slightly better savings rates over the last few years but that's price for avoiding what I deemed as unsafe banks at the time.

I think this measure is Noonan's acknowledgement that the new CB requirements will be implemented i.e. the 20% deposit requirement. It's a little help but not alot.

On the budget overall. It seems very little was done on the supply side. I mean even this measure is an attempt to stoke demand. Was he blindsided by the Central Bank and blurt this out because we know he's in the "high prices good" camp.

pwurple

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

On the budget overall. It seems very little was done on the supply side.

I'm not sure what they could have done on the supply side though. The govt becoming some kind of national property developer is something I wouldn't entertain. Cue the rise of the tenements.

Making building profitable is what's going to push supply. There will be a lag though. I just hope to god the planning authoritys have learnt some lessons in the last decade.

Cuddlesworth

pwurple wrote: »

I'm not sure what they could have done on the supply side though. The govt becoming some kind of national property developer is something I wouldn't entertain. Cue the rise of the tenements.

You place a significant cost of ownership on unused zoned residential land in needed areas. At the moment it costs practically nothing to sit on land and in specific areas its pretty much the best investment you can currently make.

You will need a strong effort to remove corruption in our planning process, namely around local councillors.

Dubh Geannain

pwurple wrote: »

Making building profitable is what's going to push supply.

Bingo!

And how much of building costs go to state coffers when you factor in taxes on raw materials, labour, planning, fees. Don't forget the new costs of building certification. Lowering the overheads will make it more profitable.

They were able to incentivise home renovations through budgetary measures. Why not building?

D3PO

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

They were able to incentivise home renovations through budgetary measures. Why not building?

its been a decent budget in property terms without getting too knee jerk, the housing situation will slowly equalise itself and thats the best way it can be done.

Nothing worse than flipping from one end of the spectrum to the other.

handlemaster

It seems economy has picked up. With that confidence and thats good for everyone

uli84

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Meh. Doing some calcs this morning we're due a refund of just over €1.2k. Better than a kick in the stones I suppose. A bit annoyed that I didn't hunt for slightly better savings rates over the last few years but that's price for avoiding what I deemed as unsafe banks at the time.
.

Could someone advise how to calculate that refund please? Thanks!!

Zamboni

handlemaster wrote: »

It seems economy has picked up. With that confidence and thats good for everyone

I hate this term. It is misleading.
Irish economy is like an unemployed lad in 300k negative equity getting a minimum wage job

whatawaster

Zamboni wrote: »

I hate this term. It is misleading.
Irish economy is like an unemployed lad in 300k negative equity getting a minimum wage job

So his life has picked up so

Zamboni

whatawaster wrote: »

So his life has picked up so

But he is still f*cked. Yes.

whatawaster

Zamboni wrote: »

But he is still f*cked. Yes.

If he can afford the repayments on his mortgage, and there is no sign that he won't be able to afford them in the future, how is he f*cked?

Zamboni

whatawaster wrote: »

If he can afford the repayments on his mortgage, and there is no sign that he won't be able to afford them in the future, how is he f*cked?

He is using credit cards in his childrens names to make up the shortfall on the mortgage repayments.

Dubh Geannain

uli84 wrote: »

Could someone advise how to calculate that refund please? Thanks!!

Savings account with Rabo states as a debit in your statement exactly what the DIRT was. So I simply added them together for the last 3 years and estimated this years.

Savings accounts with UB were a little more awkward but they provide, through their online banking, an annual Certificate of Interest for each account. They outline how much tax was paid on the interest. I don't think it's referred to as DIRT.

I'm sure it's as straightforward for other banks. It seems they all have their own way of handling it. I'd suspect that it will be Certificates of Interest that are needed as proof when it comes to claiming the refund.

Eldarion

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

Savings account with Rabo states as a debit in your statement exactly what the DIRT was. So I simply added them together for the last 3 years and estimated this years.

Savings accounts with UB were a little more awkward but they provide, through their online banking, an annual Certificate of Interest for each account. They outline how much tax was paid on the interest. I don't think it's referred to as DIRT.

I'm sure it's as straightforward for other banks. It seems they all have their own way of handling it. I'd suspect that it will be Certificates of Interest that are needed as proof when it comes to claiming the refund.

Do you have a concrete source that DIRT paid prior to 2014-10-14 is eligible for this refund? The wording is ambiguous enough that it could be interpreted that only DIRT paid AFTER 2014-10-14 is refundable and only as long as you purchase prior to the end of 2017.

uli84

Ah its gettin complicated for me, i had my savings gathered in aib for years and then moved them all to rabo, not sure how they will treat that but will see
Thanks!!!

handlemaster

Zamboni wrote: »

I hate this term. It is misleading.
Irish economy is like an unemployed lad in 300k negative equity getting a minimum wage job

if hes not selling it doesn't make a difference what the house is worth.

Property will always go up and down in price.