There's a twist!

FunLover18

Does it annoy anybody else when film reviews reveal that films contain a twist? They don't say what it is but the fact they mention it at all means I'm now going to be expecting a twist and looking out for it. There's a recent example I can think of but I don't want to name because then I'd be doing what I'm giving out about, but I heard several reviews mentioning the fact that there was a twist. It's because of this I usually don't read reviews anymore unless I've actually seen the film, but I do get the Kermode and Mayo podcast and Mark is guilty of this. Am I the only one who feels this way and am I expecting too much? I honestly don't see how it can be that hard to review a film without mentioning that a film has a twist, or are twists so common place that it doesn't matter?

cloud493

I'm glad I didnt see any review or anything on the internet at all before seeing gone girl cos that woulda spoiled the movie for me and spoiling movies is bad.

Bacchus

Yes I hate that. It's not as bad as giving away the actual twist but still, when you know it is coming, it's on you mind while watching. Now most movies throw in twists anyway but if someone goes to the point of mentioning a twist, you know it's a good one.

It's not just reviews either. There's a guy I know, who loves to talk about the movie or TV show he just saw. I usually stop him short and say "do not spoil anything" and he usually does so but whenever there is a cool twist he always says sh*t like "this isn't a spoiler cause you won't see it coming but there's a great twist at the end" or "the story keeps twisting, once you think you have it figured out it twists again". Cheers for that :mad:

Bacchus

cloud493 wrote: »

< removed quote to remove potential spoiling >

:facepalm:

I need to leave this thead now :pac:

cloud493

Fixed it, my bad

Sad Professor

I dunno I think this obsession with spoilers is ruining film criticism. Not revealing the twist is fair enough but how can you review a film with a twist without mentioning that it has a twist?

Bacchus

Sad Professor wrote: »

I dunno I think this obsession with spoilers is ruining film criticism. Not revealing the twist is fair enough but how can you review a film with a twist without mentioning that it has a twist?

A review that wants to discuss the film fully should mention that it contains spoilers. I've no problem with that and TBF, most reviews I read would highlight that if it was an issue.

For me, it's more the guys at work blabbing about a movie they saw at the weekend and they let something slip. That and occasionally boards.ie (and similar sites). I had a Love/Hate spoiler last week cause someone had a rant about the Mirror spoiling something... but the poster mentioned the spoiler.

Fysh

Bacchus wrote: »

A review that wants to discuss the film fully should mention that it contains spoilers. I've no problem with that and TBF, most reviews I read would highlight that if it was an issue.

Sight & Sound are good for this, they tag any review containing spoilers. I'm also a fan of the way that their reviews have a review segment and a separate plot synopsis - I loathe reviews where the reviewer does nothing more than tell you what happens in the film. I want a review to tell me what's good or bad about a film (possibly using snippets as examples), not to make watching the film pointless by telling me what the story is. (More in the sense of wanting to come to the film fresh, without a reviewer's preconceptions colouring my interpretation).

dan1895

Was in Cineworld the other day and while watching a trailer before hand it referenced a review that referenced the twist in the film. Now that's annoying. Thankfully I can't remember what film the trailer was for.

Telecaster58

Didn't Ebert and Siskel famously fall out over a revelation in The Crying Game?

cloud493

Movie trailers generally spoil quite a lot, but thats a different thing altogether./

Goldstein

Yes, knowing there's a twist is itself a spoiler and can ruin a film.

SVG

I remember hearing a film reviewer talking about

M Night Shyamalan's The Village

on the radio. The host asked him when the film was set and he replied saying "well I wouldn't want to give anything away..."

The worst.

FortuneChip

I kinda think the word "twist" is a bit simplistic.
There are movies where the whole plot hinges on one dramatic twist at the end, but other movies just have a gradual revelation that the plot has been building too all along; is that still a twist? It has to be expected that a murder/mystery movie have a reveal, but is it still a twist, or an obvious expectation?

The Shyamalan one spoilered above; that's a definite "twist" and it's a pretty atrocious and smug answer from someone who has already seen it.

johnny_ultimate

I agree with Sad Professor on this one, mostly because of the way I engage with film reviews.

To me, the question of 'do I watch this or not?' is a rudimentary and basic one, and is better served by a quick glance at a rating, tweet or aggregation site. So I very rarely read full reviews before I see the film, bar maybe a quick glance. Actual reviews I want to be analytical, in-depth, critical pieces of writing that I turn to after I've seen the film to read up on some different perspectives on what I've watched.

A big problem I have these days is that when a film is released, the critical conversation quickly dies - sadly, most writers and publications only have time and space to discuss a film during release week with the standard review before everything moves on again. A few online sites are thankfully a bit more open in this regard and can put out more in-depth or specific critical pieces when viewers have actually seen the film, but most can't. In print it's worse - even in Sight & Sound a film is lucky to get a review and an accompanying feature in release month before it's barely mentioned again for years or if it's good enough to make the end of year list (thankfully, their features and reviews tend to have no problem revealing key narrative details, which make them resources that aren't time sensitive or limited). Oddly enough, TV reviews tend to be far more open and progressive - there it seems expected and respected that a reviewer will delve into the nitty gritty immediately and take for granted the reader has seen what's being talked about (naturally it helps that a lot of viewers will see it at the same time). I'd love film criticism to be more like that!

In that context, I'd rather writers offer up a proper critical response with the limited space they have and not be too concerned by spoilers. A 'do I watch it' review is only useful for a week or so, a more in-depth look is timeless. IMO (unpopular though it might be), a proper critical response is severely restricted if you can't talk about pivotal points of the film. If a twist or ending is a major part of the film, then that is pivotal. A quick spoiler flag, if we're being kind, but honestly I simply tend to ignore reviews anyway if I intend on seeing a film or unless I'm confident I'm never going to actually watch it. Aversion to spoilers means there are fewer examples of strong critical pieces out there, and unless more space starts getting dedicated to analysis after release I'd rather a writer not give a **** about spoiling anything and offer us a more thorough take on the film in the first place.

I'd also argue that if a film is ruined because of a general mention that there's a twist, well then it's not really a very good film. An M Night Shyamalan film is a good example - take away the twist from most of his films and you're left with big old bores that generally aren't worthy of our time. Even if you're aware of what happens at the end, great films will offer enjoyment on any number of other levels that it's pretty much a moot point. Heck, knowing there's a twist I'd argue in some cases might even help you watch more actively, keeping a closer eye on how the narrative is put together and structured - appreciating the film on a level other than the more basic mechanisms of the plot.

e_e

I like what some podcasts do of just having the hosts give their verdict and THEN they go into further plot detail and analysis. I think more written reviews should follow such a structure.

charlie_says

My view on this weird spoiler culture:

Why should someone else censor for you? Do it yourself, like an adult.

If you don't want to know something don't feel hard done by if you are sniffing around the edges and are "spoiled".

First world problems.

edit: well said Johnny.

FunLover18

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I agree with Sad Professor on this one, mostly because of the way I engage with film reviews.

To me, the question of 'do I watch this or not?' is a rudimentary and basic one, and is better served by a quick glance at a rating, tweet or aggregation site. So I very rarely read full reviews before I see the film, bar maybe a quick glance. Actual reviews I want to be analytical, in-depth, critical pieces of writing that I turn to after I've seen the film to read up on some different perspectives on what I've watched.

A big problem I have these days is that when a film is released, the critical conversation quickly dies - sadly, most writers and publications only have time and space to discuss a film during release week with the standard review before everything moves on again. A few online sites are thankfully a bit more open in this regard and can put out more in-depth or specific critical pieces when viewers have actually seen the film, but most can't. In print it's worse - even in Sight & Sound a film is lucky to get a review and an accompanying feature in release month before it's barely mentioned again for years or if it's good enough to make the end of year list (thankfully, their features and reviews tend to have no problem revealing key narrative details, which make them resources that aren't time sensitive or limited). Oddly enough, TV reviews tend to be far more open and progressive - there it seems expected and respected that a reviewer will delve into the nitty gritty immediately and take for granted the reader has seen what's being talked about (naturally it helps that a lot of viewers will see it at the same time). I'd love film criticism to be more like that!

In that context, I'd rather writers offer up a proper critical response with the limited space they have and not be too concerned by spoilers. A 'do I watch it' review is only useful for a week or so, a more in-depth look is timeless. IMO (unpopular though it might be), a proper critical response is severely restricted if you can't talk about pivotal points of the film. If a twist or ending is a major part of the film, then that is pivotal. A quick spoiler flag, if we're being kind, but honestly I simply tend to ignore reviews anyway if I intend on seeing a film or unless I'm confident I'm never going to actually watch it. Aversion to spoilers means there are fewer examples of strong critical pieces out there, and unless more space starts getting dedicated to analysis after release I'd rather a writer not give a **** about spoiling anything and offer us a more thorough take on the film in the first place.

I'd also argue that if a film is ruined because of a general mention that there's a twist, well then it's not really a very good film. An M Night Shyamalan film is a good example - take away the twist from most of his films and you're left with big old bores that generally aren't worthy of our time. Even if you're aware of what happens at the end, great films will offer enjoyment on any number of other levels that it's pretty much a moot point. Heck, knowing there's a twist I'd argue in some cases might even help you watch more actively, keeping a closer eye on how the narrative is put together and structured - appreciating the film on a level other than the more basic mechanisms of the plot.

I agree with everything you said about critical discussion of a film Johnny. I love a good spoiler filled discussion on a film I've seen, I'd recommend the Empire Spoiler Podcasts if you haven't hear of them, unfortunately they don't do as many as one would like. Cinema Swirl is good as well.

I also agree that 'do I watch it' reviews are only good for a certain amount of time but you can't do away with them because of that. I think they're very important to the film industry. Yes a quick glance at a rating can do it but who looks at ratings for films they've never even heard of. I'm reasonably in touch with the film world there are films I've seen that I would not have heard of let alone bothered with had I not heard one of the 'do I see it' slots on the radio; some good some bad and there are plenty more that I haven't seen but the review has stuck with me. Sometimes, also, a rating or tweet isn't enough. Someone recommended a movie on twitter, but what's it about. Two examples I saw 'A Cock and Bull Story' get four stars but I had never heard of it, knew nothing about, probably wouldn't have looked at the rating had I not seen a pic of Coogan and Brydon accompanying the review. Read the review, said 'hmmm, sounds good', and it's now one of my all time favourites. On the other end of the scale, picture of Philip Seymour Hoffman - The Master, five stars - 'oooo, sounds interesting'. Read the review; I have absolutely interest in ever seeing that film.

I may not have been clear in my OP, I don't think knowing there's a twist ruins the film, but it can completely ruin the film experience. The whole point of a twist is that it's unexpected and the audience isn't meant to see it coming. If a reviewer mentions that there is a twist it completely takes that away even without revealing what the twist is, the audience is expecting a turn and is second guessing everything. It's also a disservice to the filmmakers who have gone to huge lengths to make this film and have crafted in such a way as to provide the best possible experience for the audience. If you wrote a story with a twist, you wouldn't go around telling people "read my story, there's a great twist at the end" and I doubt you'd be ok with others doing it either. As you said there are plenty of other levels on which to enjoy a film so surely a good reviewer can focus on those levels? I think there's room in the world for both 'do I watch it' and in-depth reviews, maybe reviewers just need to make up their mind which they want to do.

will56

More and more Trailers are guilty of giving away plot twists as well.
Seen one for Mazerunner last night that seemed to give away a part of the plot that you didn't need to see before going in.

Same with Hankock from a few years ago.

Trailers are no longer teasers of the film, more and more of them are like watching condensed versions of the film

Bacchus

will56 wrote: »

Trailers are no longer teasers of the film, more and more of them are like watching condensed versions of the film

Which in the case of the Transformers series is the best thing ever. All the best bits without the padding.