wildlife garden pond

magicbastarder

i'm in the process of digging a garden pond, and have settled on the basic shape; just a few questions for anyone who has tried the same (we won't be putting any fish in it, i should hasten to add)

is running water a significant factor in water quality, or how the pond will turn out?
how important has depth been (i'm thinking in terms of the really cold winter we had a few years ago - whether anyone suffered from a completely frozen pond)? the one i'm digging is currently just a shade over 2 foot deep.
how easy is it to find a source to inoculate the pond from; i'm in the suburbs on the northside in dublin, so natural repopulation might be slow? should i select a pond with no fish in it?

Capercaille

As long as the pond is 0.5m deep it should be deep enough to prevent total freezing. The deeper the better though. Make sure sides of pond are sloped so creatures like frogs can get in and out.
Get plenty of native plants especially oxygenators for pond. A good mixture of plants will keep the water clean. I seeded my pond with mud and pond water from Pollardstown fen. That will introduce micro-organisms and small invertebrates. If that not possible get water from a local pond. Failing that you get water/mud from one of the canals.

I have a water diverter set up for my pond. I collect water from the roof. It goes into a 200L water butt. I have a hose pipe going to pond from the water butt. the extra water keeps the pond clean.

I have two small ponds, with a large population of frogs and newts. Fish will do heavy damage to a small pond. Keep goldfish out. They are a pure disaster.

magicbastarder

cheers - i'll be filling it from a water butt; the pond is about 8 foot at it's widest (i.e. from the nearest point in the photo below to the farthest point).

interestingly, the soil became wet at about two foot down, and within several hours, it had filled a couple of inches - there's a culverted river about 100 foot behind our house, and i'm not sure if the water table is still falling after the heavy rain from the weekend before last (i.e. the weekend of the 3rd/4th/5th oct) or if it has reached its normal level. i've had concerns expressed elsewhere that this would cause problems as the water seeping in would lift the (planned) butyl liner. i'd have put stones in the bottom anyway to keep it down.

Capercaille

A good natural shape. You will need to put down some protective liner (commercial pond liner, old carpet, sand) to protect your rubber liner. You might need to go down a bit deeper on your shelf though (hard to judge on photo though), to take into account your protective liner.

magicbastarder

yep, i was thinking along the same lines; i reckon the shelf would be at a maximum depth of three inches if i proceeded as is.
hard to tell from the photos, but there are another couple of shelves in the 'lobes' of the pond, maybe four inches deeper than the shallow shelf.

i still have to check the levels all the way around it, so i'll probably do this before finishing off the shelves.

Capercaille

Is your garden fully enclosed? Hopefully there are a few gaps so the local frogs can find it. It was only a year till the local frogs found my first pond. There was great excitement hearing the frogs croaking in the Spring for the first time. Make sure you keep the grass near your pond a bit long, the frogs like to have a bit of cover.

magicbastarder

unfortunately it is fully enclosed - i am considering hacking the bottom few inches off the side gate though; a neighbour found a frog in his driveway a few months ago, but that would seem to be a very rare occurrence.
we're near enough to albert college park (beside DCU) so i suspect that may be where the frog came from.

Capercaille

magicbastarder wrote: »

unfortunately it is fully enclosed - i am considering hacking the bottom few inches off the side gate though; a neighbour found a frog in his driveway a few months ago, but that would seem to be a very rare occurrence.
we're near enough to albert college park (beside DCU) so i suspect that may be where the frog came from.

You would be surprised how far the frogs can travel to get to a pond.

robp

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm in the process of digging a garden pond, and have settled on the basic shape; just a few questions for anyone who has tried the same (we won't be putting any fish in it, i should hasten to add)

is running water a significant factor in water quality, or how the pond will turn out?
how important has depth been (i'm thinking in terms of the really cold winter we had a few years ago - whether anyone suffered from a completely frozen pond)? the one i'm digging is currently just a shade over 2 foot deep.
how easy is it to find a source to inoculate the pond from; i'm in the suburbs on the northside in dublin, so natural repopulation might be slow? should i select a pond with no fish in it?

What you have laid out there is small so you might prefer to plant waterplant in buckets but if you use sediment to line the pond floor try to use very infertile subsoil. This may help to reduce algae blooms.

Another factor to prevent algae is aiming for much of the surface water to be shaded.

magicbastarder

yeah, we'd be going for plants in aquatic baskets rather than into sediment.

Joeseph Balls

Looking forward to seeing the progress of this.

magicbastarder

it'll be the weekend before i get to re-sculpt the shelves to make them deeper - but one concern is that as it is going to have very steep sides on one side, the liner will end up bunching a hell of a lot. i'm not sure if this is something i should just live with or if i should try to use sheets of liner well glued to make a more custom fit for the shape.

emo72

Capercaille wrote: »

You would be surprised how far the frogs can travel to get to a pond.

how would a frog know where there was a pond? i have a pond about 8 years but never seen a frog.

baaba maal

magicbastarder wrote: »

it'll be the weekend before i get to re-sculpt the shelves to make them deeper - but one concern is that as it is going to have very steep sides on one side, the liner will end up bunching a hell of a lot. i'm not sure if this is something i should just live with or if i should try to use sheets of liner well glued to make a more custom fit for the shape.

I presume you mean how it will look? If so, it isn't really an issue as sediment that builds up naturally will soften the look of it. I would put more importance on covering up the exposed (above water) liner. UV light eventually weakens it, so planting and stones/slabs etc should be used to protect it.

There is special butyl glue but personally, I think that any joint is a potential weak spot so would prefer to use an intact liner rather than cut and glue sections.

Half-cocked

Garden pond is on my to-do list at some stage. If it is steep sided, I was told to leave an escape route for animals like hedgehogs that might fall in, a little ramp or other way they can scramble out.

Capercaille

emo72 wrote: »

how would a frog know where there was a pond? i have a pond about 8 years but never seen a frog.

Adult frogs are terrestrial animals, only returning to ponds to rehydrate and spawn. They can travel up to 0.5km in their home range I think. If there is a pond nearby they will eventually find a new pond. (I'm not expert on frogs though).

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Frogs don't need to be in ponds all the time. They go to water to breed and spawn but otherwise they're quite happy just to be near damp habitats. You can find them up to about a kilometre away from ponds. It can be a bit hit or miss when it comes to them choosing your pond for breeding but in time it should attract some. The habitat surrounding the pond is an important factor in attracting frogs.

recedite

magicbastarder wrote: »

how easy is it to find a source to inoculate the pond from; i'm in the suburbs on the northside in dublin, so natural repopulation might be slow?

Get some pondweed and mud out of the canal. I wouldn't bother with the fancy shape, what good is the steep side? With marginal plants around the edges, the original shape will be obscured anyway.And I'd make it twice as big. A small pond can turn toxic more quickly with the autumn leaves that will fall into it.
Steep sides are better for fish, because herons can't wade in as easily, but shallow sides are safer if small kids come to visit and fall in. As you don't want fish, don't have any steep sides. And never deliberately cut the liner.

magicbastarder

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Looking forward to seeing the progress of this.

latest (well, the photo is a few weeks old); we just spotted a sparrowhawk taking a bath in the pond, which was my wife's first sighting of one in the garden (i've seen them a couple of times before).
we've not made any effort to add wildlife yet, bar some chunks of bulrush root which i've put in a net bag in the pond pending getting some aquatic compost and pots, and some slate to sit them on - however, there are small clearly segmented red 'worms' which have appeared in the pond, which i've seen before in my father in law's pond - anyone know what they might be? they were there before the bulrush roots were added.

Joeseph Balls

Do they wiggle in an 'S' shape a lot? Iv seen them before but just in buckets of rainwater and stuff. Havnt seen them since i was a kid

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

Do they wiggle in an 'S' shape a lot? Iv seen them before but just in buckets of rainwater and stuff. Havnt seen them since i was a kid

They are the larvae of midges.

ligertigon

Is your pond sheltered from the sun?
Hopefully south is behind that wall.

This is probably the most important factor...

I have a 5 foot deep pond, 3 Koi carp and 7 goldfish of various sizes, Duckweed is fantastic as a natural barrier to excessive light, and is high in protein for animals.
Water iris's and reedmace grow nicely above the waterline and can be pot submerged.

emo72

I think they are mosquito or some sort of fly larvae. They breed in still water.

magicbastarder

ligertigon wrote: »

Is your pond sheltered from the sun?
Hopefully south is behind that wall.

This is probably the most important factor...

I have a 5 foot deep pond, 3 Koi carp and 7 goldfish of various sizes, Duckweed is fantastic as a natural barrier to excessive light, and is high in protein for animals.
Water iris's and reedmace grow nicely above the waterline and can be pot submerged.

cheers - south is roughly to the left, so it is in a sunny spot; unfortunately the other side of the garden did not suit siting the pond there. we're going to plant some plants which will provide shade for the pond - hopefully without their roots puncturing the liner...

dogmatix

Discovered large quantities of frog spawn in the pond today - it was not there Sunday. Only discovered it there because on arriving home from work, I disturbed a heron and then noticed the frog spawn. I assume the heron was there for the frogs - certainly I noticed none in the pond when I looked. I do hope the frogs got their jollies before they where eaten (although the frog spawn would indicate that they did).

Is it a bit early for frog spawn? Only it has been bitterly cold the last week.

magicbastarder

i've heard lots of reports of frog spawn in the last few weeks, partly due to the rather mild spell we had i think.