any good ideas for getting rid of foxes

derferjam

Hi all I've had lads shoot them every year and year in year out there is six seven shot just a joke and wrecking the lamb numbers each year. Any ideas to rid em

Kovu

Keep shooting them! Did you ever go out with them shooting? No harm to learn how to do it. Easy then to carry the gun with you checking at night come lambing time.

Connemara Farmer

Stockholm tar applied to the backs of the neck of every lamb you see. I didn't shoot a fox all year and didn't lose any lambs. Also tried this strategy in a rough and remote parcel of my Dads land where you'd trip over fox scat and nearly choke on the scent of them. Tarred each lamb and kept count, they were all present and correct for mart day.

The trick with this is to get there before the fox does. I got a great headlight and would be out checking between midnight and 1am in my own place, didn't check Dads as too remote. Any lamb, wet or dry, got tar.

Reggie.

Pm sent

jfh

know a fella with a few of these..
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article2988482.ece

Dawggone

derferjam wrote: »

Hi all I've had lads shoot them every year and year in year out there is six seven shot just a joke and wrecking the lamb numbers each year. Any ideas to rid em

[Mod snip]

Dawggone, the use of poisons (of any sort) against any bird or animal has been completely illegal since October 2010.

Here's the Statutory Instrument concerned:
S.I. No. 481/2010 — European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats)(Restrictions on use of Poisoned Bait) Regulations 2010.

Please see the forum Charter here where it is illegal to advocate such actions.

kfk

Dawggone wrote: »

[Mod snip]

Awful idea! Illegal! To suggest poisoning is just idiotic!

Dawggone

Dawggone wrote: »

[Mod snip]

Dawggone, the use of poisons (of any sort) against any bird or animal has been completely illegal since October 2010.

Here's the Statutory Instrument concerned:
S.I. No. 481/2010 — European Communities (Birds and Natural Habitats)(Restrictions on use of Poisoned Bait) Regulations 2010.

Please see the forum Charter here where it is illegal to advocate such actions.

Is rat poison illegal?

Mad4simmental

Foxes are vermin, so I think dog is ok in what he said.

Kovu

Dawggone wrote: »

Is rat poison illegal?

I assumed we all knew that the exception to this is the use of rodenticides, and those must be used with secure bait boxes or using the specified regulations provided.

Birdnuts

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Foxes are vermin, so I think dog is ok in what he said.

No - it is illegal to use any poison in a way that is not licenced for by the PCS(Pesticide control Service). In any case it is a dangerous/reckless practice that has killed many protected species, pets, working dogs etc. over the years. Foxes can be easily dealt with legally and safely by lamping, trapping or snaring. Members of ones local gun club are usually only too happy to oblige when it comes to fox control. The OP would also get offers from people to do fox control if he put a thread on the subject in the hunting forum.

Base price

I am interested in what CM had to say about Stockholm tar. I wonder would it work on poultry. A dab on the back of the head so they could not preen it.

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

I am interested in what CM had to say about Stockholm tar. I wonder would it work on poultry. A dab on the back of the head so they could not preen it.

If you hang human hair in nets from the hens run. Foxes usually stay well away

Base price

Reggie. wrote: »

If you hang human hair in nets from the hens run. Foxes usually stay well away

Heard of that one years ago along with men peeing around the perimeter of the run - apparently it doesn't work.

Kovu

Reggie. wrote: »

If you hang human hair in nets from the hens run. Foxes usually stay well away

And so would all the neighbours.......:pac:

Connemara Farmer

Base price wrote: »

I am interested in what CM had to say about Stockholm tar. I wonder would it work on poultry. A dab on the back of the head so they could not preen it.

I don't know about hens, the trick with the lambs is to tar them before the fox has them. Easier done with hens than lambs. All I can tell you is that I lost no tarred lamb on my farm, and the ones in Dads parcel I tarred and counted all went to the mart safe and sound.

Whether it works again next year, I'll tell ya then!

Green farmer

I found that if you shoot a fox , you get a few weeks before new fox takes over the territory. So just have hunters turn up regularity during lambing season. Combine that with stock tar, leaving radio in coat pocket on gate of field,driving around perimeter at different times on night and day, shine flash lights around field and keep fingers crossed !!! That's what I do .

dextor03

derferjam wrote: »

Hi all I've had lads shoot them every year and year in year out there is six seven shot just a joke and wrecking the lamb numbers each year. Any ideas to rid em

Alpaca's are good at guarding a flock. Might be worth looking into.

gozunda

My issue with the usual shooting methods is that whiping out all the foxes in an specific area can actually cause a bigger problem for the long term. As a poultry farmer inc free range I have experienced that where foxes are eradicated - it actually creates a vacuum for wandering foxes who are the most likley to predate livestock.

The only solution I have found is to remove the problem foxes who are actively predating (this in my experience is usually a small number of individuals or more often one single predator). By selectively removing such foxes and leaving the rest it is possible to maintain a status quo. The other important element is to maintain a (non predating) fox population that is both human and habitation shy. To this end I have used the services of the local hunt for many years with problem foxes being hunted by request. Foxes soon learn to keep a low profile in hunted areas. I don't welcome unregulated hunting / shooting or complete eradication of existing populations because in my experience it simply causes the movement of other foxes and the problem will start all over again.

derferjam

Sorry Gozunda a dead Fox doesn't move or hunt and I find once the pups are born the slaughter of my lambs begins, as I said every year I have 6-7 of these f..kers killing my flock so I've no problem in foxes being shot.

gozunda

derferjam wrote: »

Sorry Gozunda a dead Fox doesn't move or hunt and I find once the pups are born the slaughter of my lambs begins, as I said every year I have 6-7 of these f..kers killing my flock so I've no problem in foxes being shot.

My point was that you remove those foxes that actively predate livestock. Take these out and leave the rest to avoid wandering foxes taking over the vacant territory. Make sure the rest are both habitation / human shy. To this end the local hunt have kept the fox population in check for years - even with poultry on their menu ...

Willfarman

gozunda wrote: »

My point was that you remove those foxes that actively predate livestock. Take these out and leave the rest to avoid wandering foxes taking over the vacant territory. Make sure the rest are both habitation / human shy. To this end the local hunt have kept the fox population in check for years - even with poultry on their menu ...

Absolute poppycock. It's a numbers game. Simple as. Op I lamb indoors and still have problems when I turn out 2 day old. I recommend snaring to be very effective where lambs are being visited. But good marksmen and and a big lamp is the farmers best friend in this regard.

Zoo4m8

Gozunda makes a fair point, take one out and another just moves in to fill the gap. Many years ago there was a lad in Limerick paying for fox skins so a man that worked for us started snaring foxes one winter, he caught twenty seven.. They just keep coming.. (There's a story in itself in how he got fresh skins from Wicklow to Limerick !)
For what it's worth we stopped taking losses when we started lambing indoors. I know everyone's situation is different but we used a very simple system that didn't involve a large expensive shed, it's how we did it for over thirty years till I quit a couple years ago.
Just seen the post above..we had no problems at turnout apart from maybe a sickly lamb. The man next door lost one that he knows of this year despite the fact there was a den thirty meters from the boundary on my side.

Green farmer

Foxes are opportunists. You won't know their about until the opportunity presents itself and then...... the other thing about them is that they'll keep coming and get bolder and bolder. 11 months of the year their about but don't bother me. however lambing season starts it's a different matter. I'd swear the foxes know and are waiting for the lambs. We did a sweep this year for a week or so, cleared the place. A day or two later we started seeing hares about, hadn't seen them in years. We saw them for a few weeks, then they disappeared again, so I knew the foxes were back.

gozunda

Willfarman wrote: »

Absolute poppycock. It's a numbers game. Simple as. Op I lamb indoors and still have problems when I turn out 2 day old. I recommend snaring to be very effective where lambs are being visited. But good marksmen and and a big lamp is the farmers best friend in this regard.

poppycock right back at you. :rolleyes:
Yeah it's a numbers game - reduce the population completely and you get continuously invaded by young foxes dispersed from other areas.
I have had plenty years of experience of managing the local fox population - and the method works. Take out everything aka your 'good marksman' and you just get a repeating pattern of foxes continuously being replaced and more likely to predate. That is my experience. If you think you have got it covered well good for you. Best of luck with it ....

dodderangler

Willfarman wrote: »

Absolute poppycock. It's a numbers game. Simple as. Op I lamb indoors and still have problems when I turn out 2 day old. I recommend snaring to be very effective where lambs are being visited. But good marksmen and and a big lamp is the farmers best friend in this regard.

Snaring can e a problem in getting animals that aren't intended like badgers,dogs etc
Keep shooting is best way. One fox gets shot and another will move in but just keep going.
Eventually the numbers will thin out

Connemara Farmer

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

but we used a very simple system that didn't involve a large expensive shed

Tell me more please.

jmrc

Foxes are opportunists. You won't know their about until the opportunity presents itself and then...... the other thing about them is that they'll keep coming and get bolder and bolder. 11 months of the year their about but don't bother me.

We decided a few years ago that if a fox didn't usually go into a field 11 months of the year he'd not think of going in on the other month when it was full of lambs. Fence..fence and keep the fence. close up all holes and keep it maintained. If you dont give them the opportunity then they don't become opportunists.....

Flashing lights, radio, human hair.... all nonsense.... IMO.

Zoo4m8

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Tell me more please.

Ok, this for 120-150 ewes.. Long old stone and slate shed with dividing wall, would have to measure to get size, took out dividing wall, opened up doorway to take twelve foot gate which was then sheeted, lighting installed to leave one end slightly darker than rest of house, with a number of individual pens, ewes preferred the darker end for lambing at night.
Four or five rams with crayon harness at tipping time, change colour every 25-30 ewes. Come lambing first group tipped moved to paddock beside shed and let in at night and out in the morning for feeding and out for day, feeding in morning seemed to mean less lambing at night. Lambed ewes moved to other old shed with 22 individual pens . As ewes lambed replaced in shed with forward ones from next colour.
Not of course by any means perfect, but we refined it as we went along and as I said was still using the system till a couple years ago, it probably wouldn't suit a lot but it fitted for us alongside a fair amount of tillage/cattle.

Willfarman

dodderangler wrote: »

Snaring can e a problem in getting animals that aren't intended like badgers,dogs etc
Keep shooting is best way. One fox gets shot and another will move in but just keep going.
Eventually the numbers will thin out

Exactly.

Connemara Farmer

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Ok, this for 120-150 ewes.. Long old stone and slate shed with dividing wall, would have to measure to get size, took out dividing wall, opened up doorway to take twelve foot gate which was then sheeted, lighting installed to leave one end slightly darker than rest of house, with a number of individual pens, ewes preferred the darker end for lambing at night.
Four or five rams with crayon harness at tipping time, change colour every 25-30 ewes. Come lambing first group tipped moved to paddock beside shed and let in at night and out in the morning for feeding and out for day, feeding in morning seemed to mean less lambing at night. Lambed ewes moved to other old shed with 22 individual pens . As ewes lambed replaced in shed with forward ones from next colour.
Not of course by any means perfect, but we refined it as we went along and as I said was still using the system till a couple years ago, it probably wouldn't suit a lot but it fitted for us alongside a fair amount of tillage/cattle.

I had something similar planned for the tunnel in Spring, will raddle the ram with a different colour each week. Take tag numbers and note colours on ewes and bring them in week by week at lambing.

Will keep open option to have them in for longer though, weather and growing conditions in Spring will dictate that.

Capercaille

gozunda wrote: »

My issue with the usual shooting methods is that whiping out all the foxes in an specific area can actually cause a bigger problem for the long term. As a poultry farmer inc free range I have experienced that where foxes are eradicated - it actually creates a vacuum for wandering foxes who are the most likley to predate livestock.

The only solution I have found is to remove the problem foxes who are actively predating (this in my experience is usually a small number of individuals or more often one single predator). By selectively removing such foxes and leaving the rest it is possible to maintain a status quo. The other important element is to maintain a (non predating) fox population that is both human and habitation shy. To this end I have used the services of the local hunt for many years with problem foxes being hunted by request. Foxes soon learn to keep a low profile in hunted areas. I don't welcome unregulated hunting / shooting or complete eradication of existing populations because in my experience it simply causes the movement of other foxes and the problem will start all over again.

The local hunt are good for knocking down fences, ploughing up fields, cutting wire on fences, destroying hedges and they will catch feck all foxes.

lanber man

Capercaille wrote: »

The local hunt are good for knocking down fences, ploughing up fields, cutting wire on fences, destroying hedges and they will catch feck all foxes.

There are a lot like that. Even within a game club lads turn up on first of November and do nothing else to help for the rest of the year, including what ye are discussing. If it's a problem with the people you are getting to shoot the people over on the hunting forum are crying out for land to shoot on

tonytoc11

Where in the country are you?

Green farmer

Con,
Did your tunnel ever get finished ? We were all waiting to find out ?

Connemara Farmer

Green farmer wrote: »

Con,
Did your tunnel ever get finished ? We were all waiting to find out ?

There was a mix up in communication and I got the wrong cover, which we put on. Discovered that cover was too hot for sheep, so rang supplier who was absolutely 100% and sent me up correct cover + funds to cover labour. Despite the error I have to say he's one of the best people I've ever dealt with, completely genuine.

So at the moment I am waiting on a calm day again Cover that's on at the moment will come off, and new one go on. Then I can plough ahead and get it done. I was hoping to do that today, not a leaf moving at 8am, but entire trees swaying by 9am. Betting now on a frosty day and a space heater. Weather doesn't look like cooperating on that score anytime soon, will keep an eye on it.

gozunda

Capercaille wrote: »

The local hunt are good for knocking down fences, ploughing up fields, cutting wire on fences, destroying hedges and they will catch feck all foxes.

Ya ok I get you are anti hunt :rolleyes: maybe around your area. Here the hunt IS largely farmers and locals who know the score. A 'good' marksman is a rare animal IME and I would prefer to trust and more importantly know who is doing the work. Too many trigger happy eejits who are happy to shoot / lamp anything including stock imo. The method I have detailed works well in managing the fox population and the hunt maybe visit twice a year max. They don't have to catch all the foxes - they remove the problem ones - that's what I have been explaining - but you seem to have missed that point in your rant. If you are happy to have to continuously shot/lamp/snare foxes then fine. Whatever floats yer boat. Best of luck with that. With the method I outlined I have no problems with predating foxes despite the free range operation.

gozunda

Ooo

dodderangler

What fcukin eegit Is shooting livestock.?
Pr1cks like that who are shooting at anything with a heartbeat or shooting old signposts really pi55 me off. Give the rest of us a bad name. I'm struggling to get land to hunt.
Altogether I've some nice land but gun clubs are taking over a lot f the lad. Such land I have I can shoot it but I ain't allowed to shoot it from November to February. Was told this by gun club but they've no problem me shooting the foxes for them.

gozunda

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I had something similar planned for the tunnel in Spring, will raddle the ram with a different colour each week. Take tag numbers and note colours on ewes and bring them in week by week at lambing.

Will keep open option to have them in for longer though, weather and growing conditions in Spring will dictate that.

Con - I thought it was you. Good to see your expertise back. How's the flock doing?

Connemara Farmer

gozunda wrote: »

Con - I thought it was you. Good to see your expertise back. How's the flock doing?

Not as good this year as last. A lot of younger + older ewes, taking my eye of the ball, and a fair bit of drought. Every day is a school day. Very happy with lamb mortality this year though, only lost the one that was never right from birth anyway (1.6kg).

on the river

Get bell on sheep great Deterrent

on the river

Also alpacas take on foxes head on.

Zoo4m8

dodderangler wrote: »

What fcukin eegit Is shooting livestock.?
Pr1cks like that who are shooting at anything with a heartbeat or shooting old signposts really pi55 me off. Give the rest of us a bad name. I'm struggling to get land to hunt.
Altogether I've some nice land but gun clubs are taking over a lot f the lad. Such land I have I can shoot it but I ain't allowed to shoot it from November to February. Was told this by gun club but they've no problem me shooting the foxes for them.

Number of ewes round here shot back in the spring... I've had a bullock shot with a crossbow ( didn't kill him) neighbour had a cow shot with a shotgun..
One lad and one lad only shoots here, and that's me..
Snares are effective but I don't like them, as well as catching other animals no animal should have to suffer needlessly . I've only ever used them to catch one of a group of dogs that were killing sheep and had managed to avoid every attempt to shoot them a few years back.
I'd don't let the hunt in here, no farmers on it = no respect! but in know they are not all like that and as said can have a role in control.

lanber man

Zoo4m8 wrote: »

Number of ewes round here shot back in the spring... I've had a bullock shot with a crossbow ( didn't kill him) neighbour had a cow shot with a shotgun..
One lad and one lad only shoots here, and that's me..
Snares are effective but I don't like them, as well as catching other animals no animal should have to suffer needlessly . I've only ever used them to catch one of a group of dogs that were killing sheep and had managed to avoid every attempt to shoot them a few years back.
I'd don't let the hunt in here, no farmers on it = no respect! but in know they are not all like that and as said can have a role in control.

That's absolutely mental. To have an animal killed with a crossbow? And a cow with a shotgun. You would have to be close enough to it to kill it. Pure disrespect or common lack of a brain. Should have been reported to the guards

Zoo4m8

Sorry, should have said neither animal was killed..
The guards were told as with every incident no matter how minor, the farmers in the local area all keep an eye out for each other and anything out of place is reported to the gardai and to each other. For instance if someone suspicious calls to a yard the neighbours are phoned to alert them.
The guards are aware that in a lot of cases we deal with it ourselves but report it anyway in case of repercussions.
Oh yes, the gent with the crossbow was met on another mans place about six weeks later... That was reported to the guards after 'the meeting'.

whereto now

Hi I have a neighbour who breeds alpacas and I know they are used to protect lambs from foxes, I looked online and they are used a lot in Australia to keep the dingos away as well, so a fox should'nt be a problem.... I walk past their field most days with my dog and the alpacas watch us and usually they will walk along the hedge keeping an eye on the dog so they seem to be very alert and suspicious animals... might be worth looking into.....I can pm you contact details of you're interested.....