ATH QF3- Beakerjoe vs GerryBBadd

Bounty Hunter

Tis the Beaker man of the Joe variety against the Bad man who B Gerry by name as we move on to quater final no.3!

Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your argument i.e pointing out possible flaws in what you've said.

*you can only counter an argument two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their argument isn't good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

This question sees the return of "Pitch to Vince HHH"

Question: HHH asks you to repackage a member of the WWE roster with a new gimmick, who do you choose and what Gimmick would you choose for them? 1 catch: this Gimmick should be according to Trips something the majority of the audience have not seen before and consider fresh and new.

After your first post, why would your choice be better than your opponents

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A place in the Semi-finals is at stake so G'luck fellahs

gerrybbadd

One guy that I feel is in need of a total repackage is Luke Harper.



At the end of September, Bray Wyatt let Harper go, telling him he had “fixed him”. Now is the perfect time for Luke to evolve into a new character, now that he is away from the influence and guidance of Bray Wyatt. (Bear with me, this is a long post, but I feel they payoff will be worth it).

What I would propose for Luke is a slow evolution – with Luke coming to a realisation of who he really is. This could start one day, where he would catch sight of himself in a mirror backstage, see his beard and straggly hair, and find that he doesn’t recognise the person staring back at him. This would lead to him cleaning up his look somewhat. Cutting his beard back and tying back his hair. When he was finished tidying, he would look again in the mirror, and find some recognition of the person he now sees, but he can’t quite put his finger on it. This would mostly be sold by facial expressions, and helped along by Cole etc on the commentary.

The following week, 2 superstars (One would need to be from the Southern States in the US) could be backstage chatting. One of whom would be returning from some time off. It could come up in conversation that, while he was away, he had seen a TV show about missing people in the South. A story came up about a missing man, who happened to be 6’ 5”, 275lbs. This man was a bounty hunter, who pursued his folly into the wilds of the Deep South before disappearing. He was known to all as “The Manhunter”. His loving family are interviewed to talk about him, how much they missed him, and the circumstances of his disappearance. At the end of the segment, a picture appears, and the resemblance to Luke Harper is uncanny. As the guys are chatting, Luke walks by. The 2 guys stop talking immediately, but Luke has overheard some of the conversation. He looks them up and down confusingly, and walks away, scratching his head, grunting – like he has something, some kind of recognition of a possible past as a bounty hunter.

Michael Cole vows to get to the bottom of this. He states on the air that he will look to interview Bray Wyatt the following week on Raw, and will ask the hard hitting questions, like a true broadcast journalist would. The following week, Cole is in the ring with Bray. He asks him of the circumstances as to how he first met Luke Harper, and recruited him to the Wyatt Family. Bray talks cryptically, saying that Luke was a lost soul who found his way on the path to enlightenment with the Wyatt Family. Harper’s music hits. He makes his way to the ring, and shouts at Bray to answer the question, because funnily enough, he has no recollection of the first time he met Bray. It’s as if Bray was always there. He’s thought long and hard, and he simply cannot remember the first time they crossed paths. Bray tells him the answers you seek can only be answered by Sister Abigail. The lights go down, and Bray disappears from the ring.

The following week, Erick Rowan is warming up, when he’s approached by Luke. Luke asks Erick does he recall the first time he met Bray Wyatt, or of his life beforehand. Erick thinks long and hard, but he can’t ever recall a time before Bray. “Don’t you think that’s strange”, says Luke. Erick gets angry, and says to Luke its time for some real answers. It’s time the two of them speak with Bray. Both depart the backstage area, to head back to the Deep South in search of Bray, who wasn’t at the building this week.

Next week, several vignettes appear showing Harper & Rowan making their way back to the farmhouse where the lived with Bray. Along the way, they would be attached by random members of the family, each dispatched easily by the 2 massive monsters. Finally, they reach the house, and kick down the door. They find Bray inside in a rocking chair, illuminated only by his lantern.



Bray says, “I’ve already told you Luke, and I’m telling you now as well Erick, the answers & truth you seek can only be revealed by Sister Abigail”. The lights go dark, and the camera feed dies, in a burst of static. Cole scrambles, saying that they would do everything in their power to get the feed back up.
Later, the feed is back. Luke Harper is standing over an unconscious Bray Wyatt, and a struggling, hog tied Erick Rowan. There’s a strange coloured smoke wisping through the room, dissipating. He’s shouting “I remember now Bray, I remember EVERYTHING!” Raw ends on that note.

The following week, Raw opens with Cole telling every one of the strange events that rounded off the previous week’s episode, and speculation was rife as to why Harper had Rowan hog tied. Harper’s music hits, and he comes out looking totally different. The beard now is totally gone. The hair is tidy, and he has new attire – the attire one might expect of a bounty hunter. Luke explains that when the lights went out back at the farmhouse he heard a hissing noise & something activated in his brain. He had remembered everything. The hissing was the introduction of a gas that Bray used to incapacitate his family members. This gas also left the victims highly suggestible. The gas was called “Sister Abigail”. Luke explained that he was a bounty hunter, who was following his target through a dense scrub for many, many miles. The target was an escaped convict, who was very dangerous, and on the loose for a long time – he shows a picture of Erick Rowan on the Titantron, and says “Here was my target” – the entire commentary team are shocked. Luke goes on to explain that while hunting, he was blindsided by strange characters, whom he now knows to be Wyatt Family members. He had been taken back to the farmhouse, where he was dosed with Sister Abigail, and brainwashed by Bray Wyatt, to forget his entire past, and only know his truth, his words. Erick Rowan had also been abducted, given the same treatment. They were then paired together by Bray to be his monster enforcers.

Luke explains that from this day forward, he would be known as “The Manhunter”, and that he would track down and stop the evil Bray Wyatt and Erick Rowan, as well as any other superstars that got in his way.

beakerjoe

Wow, Ive to think of a relatively new gimmick that most WWE fans haven’t seen... Jesus. Do you want a cure for cancer too ? Well for the last day I’ve been racking my brain trying to think of something kinda fresh, new or underused. Then I’ve to give it to a current WWE superstar. Well firstly Im going to take Johnny “Fandango” Curtis and let me tell you why.

Johnny is a great company man, he’s the kind of guy who makes lemonade out of sour lemons and makes it sweet again. He took an awful gimmick in Fandango, the ballroom dancer start out of hall of bad gimmicks, and made it work better than anyone else could. He gave it his all, and gave it more mileage than the gimmick should have ever got. He’s got natural charisma; he’s got the superstar good looks and hes a pretty good wrestler with fantastic agility. All he needs is a better gimmick.

So what Id do is take Johnny off TV for a while, 3 months should do/6 months at most, and be done with Fandango. Johnny could in my opinion, pull off many current gimmicks and past ones quite well if given the backing from creative. But since Hunter wants something kinda new, Id Have him return with a gimmick which Im surprised the WWE hasn’t run with yet, especially in this day and age. Id have him return as ...... well let me explain his re-debut.

His return would start with a few weeks worth of vignettes. Raw could be interrupted briefly for a few seconds similar to the way the Wyatts vignettes worked. In these vignettes we would see clips of random things, like historical moments through out the last 50 years like Martin Luther Kings speech, Kennedy being shot, man walking on the moon and such as a distorted voice speaks. During these clips, the anonymous voice talks about making history and taking the WWE hostage in way never seen before, claiming that at a click of a mouse everything can change with in the WWE. These vignettes would eventually start interrupting the entrance music of a mid card face champion, say Dolph Ziggler or Sheamus. (Lets go with Ziggler for arguments sake.) This would happen to Dolph a few times and he and the commentary team would seem puzzled by this. Soon enough this interruption would escalate by actually distracting Dolph mid match and costing him a few victories, before causing a distraction during an IC title defence on the Tron that will cost Ziggler the gold . Dolph gets irate and eventually wants to know who is behind it and calls the person out. With this the lights go out and a a static message appears on the Tron and after a moment a man appears in a hoodie and an Guy Falkes mask on while sitting in what appears to be a swivel chair with lots of video monitors behind him.

The masked man, still with distorted voice, explains to Dolph that he will be the first victim of the revolution and that soon he and the WWE will be taken over. This “Anonymous” Figure will go on to tell Dolph that anything is possible at the click of a mouse, or at the push of a computer key, and that he and his knowledge will bring the WWE to its knees. He informs Dolph and the Universe that he can hack into any mainframe and use his power to get what he wants. He finishes by saying that Dolph will be the first of many victims and that he will bow to him.

So Dolph gets his IC rematch and this is about to win when suddenly the lights go out and then the lights in the ring begin to flicker. Pyros go off at the ramp and Dolphs attention is drawn to the entrance way. The lights come back and behind Dolph is the Anonymous masked man who attacks Dolph with a super kick. Dolph is out as The Masked Man stands over his body, the man pulls out a mobile tablet and after a few swipes the lights go off again and when the return he is down with Dolph on the mat wearing the mask.

The new character of Johnny Curtis would be dubbed Anonymous because firstly know one knows who he is and its homage to the terrorist hacker group Anonymous. He would wear a guy falkes mask and have new attire (think hardy boyz type clothes perhaps, like baggy jeans and a tight black tee). This would elimate the meory of Fandango as his face is never seen. Over the next few weeks, Dolph can be terrorised by Anonymous in various ways from being subjected to private pics being stolen from him and paraded on Raw ( pics like blurred images of his Girlfriend, enteries from his private journal from his laptop which could slate Hunter and various tag teammates) to Anonymous hacking into the pyro system to go off when Dolph is close to one. A match would be set up and Dolph would put over the new masked villain of WWE.

Over the coming months, Anonymous could even grow a faction with him being the leader and have his followers do his bidding. His character would have the power and skill to hack into other computers and reveal personal details of his foes, hack into WWE.com polls which hes featured in (number 1 contender polls, entry no30 in the rumble, specific match stipulations to favour him) and even bring down WWE.com as an act of defiance against a face GM or owner perhaps. He could hack into any mainframe to lower cages at arenas to his advantage like cornering a foe with his henchmen or raise them if pleases, to get out of a sticky situation. He could stitch up other WWE stars by showing CCTV footage of them, doing bad things ala GTV but with an actual character behind it so storylines progress.

Its something fresh, something new, something serious and terrorising that would totally freshen up the wrestler that is Johnny Curtis. Its something the WWE haven’t really touched upon and I feel it would give a solid worker like Johnny, who has the enthusiasm to bring the best out of the character, the potential to reach the upper mid card and maybe the Main Event of WWE .

beakerjoe

gerrybbadd wrote: »

One guy that I feel is in need of a total repackage is Luke Harper.

Interesting choice, I dont feel like his character is in dire need of freshing up myself, not that he wouldnt benefit from it, I just think theres others (like My Boy Johnny Curtis) that are in need of it more. Luke and the Wyatts still have mileage left in them if booked right. Johnny Curtis is at the end of a bad gimmick which he made got more miles than he should have out of it. He needs it more.

One thing i felt when reading your answer I couldnt help but notice that Luke wasnt really given a new gimmick. You've just called him Manhunter after more or less ending his angle with Bray. While I liked the angle, it didnt really give Luke a new gimmick, it rather just made Luke normal and awakened him from the trance Bray Wyatt had him under.

Sure it gives Luke Harper and The Wyatt family a decent backstory and all, but where does he go from there. You've just labelled him a Bounty Hunter named Manhunter. Its just a name and a back story? Where is the gimmick?

While I like the Sister Abigail and Bray backstory, its exactly that : a backstory angle and nothing more. The question wasnt give a character a backstory, its to give him a new gimmick. Youre answer is more like the plot of a horror film that I could be hard to translate to the viewers these days in such a slow build.

So Luke is a former Bounty Hunter now, how does that work? It cant be that hard to track down Bray Wyatt and Rowan who are more than likely going to show up at some point. I feel its a gimmick that hasnt got legs basically, it would run out of steam as soon as the storyline with Bray was done. After that, how would he Bounty Hunt within the WWE? He'd just be a wrestler called who happens to be a bounty hunter me thinks and I couldnt see the gimmick lasting in 2014. Maybe back in the days of The Undertaker and The Repo Man it could have worked for a while but not now.

gerrybbadd

beakejoe - awesome example. This is something I would love to see in the WWE.

But...I don't think Johnny is the guy for it.

WWE would do what they always do with ideas like this - push it to the moon for a little while, and then turn it into a comedy act. What would happen for example if, Anon's battery in his tablet died? Or if he got cornered? This is how he would be found out as Fandango in disguise, and the gimmick would pretty much die there and then. Unmasked, in the ring, by Dolph or some other mid carder, and exposed as Fandango - the gimmick would die then and there.

For this to work, and work well, you would need to introduce a completely new superstar, never seen in the WWE before. And preferably a smaller wrestler, as of course, hackers are pretty much always pigeon-holed as geeks. When you think hacker, you think braces. You think weedy nerd. You think coke bottle glasses. He'd then need to have hired muscle behind him too.

My example not only kicks a new gimmick for Luke Harper off, but it also allows Erick Rowan to have a new start, as well as rejuvenating Bray Wyatt's character, which has gotten stale and less relevant lately. This is why the back story is essential, and leads to the creation of the new gimmick - it also legitimises Bray as one hell of a creepy & dangerous character. Plus, there's the added bonus and opportunity to have new family members debut with Bray, giving some new superstars air time - he could even recruit like minded individuals like The Ascension to help him in his fight against Harper. The potential is limitless.

This gimmick change for Luke has the potential to run for a long long time on Raw, creating months and months of storyline.

With regard to Luke's proposed past as a Bounty Hunter, of course he wouldn't start collecting bounties in the WWE. Instead, he would apply the skills he learned as a Bounty Hunter, in addition to what Bray had thought him about being a wrestler, to ascend to the top of the WWE, as The Manhunter. He could go on a monster run, facing off against all the top stars in the WWE. Harper has all the ability in the world, moves like a guit 100 pounds lighter, and can talk too. All he needs is a change in direction, and a break away from the Wyatt Family connection, to move into the slot of the next big WWE Superstar.

beakerjoe

gerrybbadd wrote: »

beakejoe - awesome example. This is something I would love to see in the WWE.

But...I don't think Johnny is the guy for it.

Why isn't he the guy? Model employee : check, Highly talented and entertaining in the ring : check, gives his all to stick to kayfabe and does his upmost to bring his character to life and make it work : Check, has natural charisma and great mic skills : check. Not many on the roster has what he has, as Chris Jericho once said, he has all the tools to be a main eventer, just needs the right push. I can tell you that Luke hasn't all those traits yet.

WWE would do what they always do with ideas like this - push it to the moon for a little while, and then turn it into a comedy act.

While this happens to a few characters in WWE, like Johnnys Fandango character, it doesn't happen to EVERY new star. Dean Ambrose, Rusev, Sheamus and The Wyatt's are all examples of stars who weren't regulated to comedy act duty. If anything you should look at the Wyatts as a great example of this, as The Anonymous character I propose would be in the same vain as them. They have been in WWE over a year and haven't been turned into a face comedy act. It doesn't always happen. Im looking at the positive side, that if it worked, Anonymous could be an upper card tier character

What would happen for example if, Anon's battery in his tablet died? Or if he got cornered? This is how he would be found out as Fandango in disguise, and the gimmick would pretty much die there and then.

What? You know his tablet doesn't actually have control to anything in reality right? Its all kayfabe. Its just a prop. If he was unmasked? That would be all the WWEs creative teams job to make sure the angle wouldn't go in that direction. Hed never be in the position to be unmasked unless that's were a particular storyline warranted. Even if he was accidently unmasked, a tight haircut and a beard or some facial hair could hide who he used to be and your also forgetting the goldfish memory effect that fans have. Bray Wyatt survived the Husky Harris chants after a week anyway and he did fine. If the gimmicks good and I think it is, Anon will be fine

For this to work, and work well, you would need to introduce a completely new superstar, never seen in the WWE before. And preferably a smaller wrestler, as of course, hackers are pretty much always pigeon-holed as geeks. When you think hacker, you think braces. You think weedy nerd. You think coke bottle glasses. He'd then need to have hired muscle behind him too.

When I think hacker I think Neo Andersen of the Matrix myself and in WWE if I think heel hacker, I envision a hacker with a physique. When I think of an undertaker in real life, I think of a small scrawny guy, why cant it work for a hacker to be at least bigger and larger than life. Its WWE after all.

My example not only kicks a new gimmick for Luke Harper off, but it also allows Erick Rowan to have a new start, as well as rejuvenating Bray Wyatt's character,

So whats Erick Rowans gimmick, going by what you said on the opening post he used to be an escaped convict? are you going to call him Nailz too The ex con gmmick didn't fly in 1992 WWF it aint going to fly now with Erick "Im awful" Rowan under the guise.

This is why the back story is essential,

While I agree a back story is essential, you have really only supplied a back story and no real gimmick.

The potential Is limitless. This gimmick change for Luke has the potential to run for a long long time on Raw, creating months and months of storyline.

I disagree, I think done the way you propose is very very limited. What exactly is Lukes gimmick. So hes a Bounty Hunter, how does that work? You still haven't said. You've just called him a Bounty Hunter, how does it translate to a WWE superstar? Is he like a modern day face Mountie, who must always get his man? If so, I cant see it working at all. What does he do after facing Bray and Rowan??? Where would his character go? Not far is my view.

And you say the "Gimmick" would run for months and months, Ive at least given reasons why my gimmick would run for a some time, Id love to know how this non gimmick would run for "months and months".

With regard to Luke's proposed past as a Bounty Hunter, of course he wouldn't start collecting bounties in the WWE. Instead, he would apply the skills he learned as a Bounty Hunter, in addition to what Bray had thought him about being a wrestler, to ascend to the top of the WWE, as The Manhunter.

This gimmick smells of pre next generation WWF, while I agree Harper is a top wrestler, this isn't the gimmick to give him. You've given him a great backstory angle, no doubt, but you've missed the point of the question. You haven't given him a new gimmick, you've just turned him face and calling him normal. That's not a gimmick. Its like youre answer was "Luke Harpers new gimmick is him as a face with a bounty hunter past".

what skills would he bring to the WWE that a Bounty Hunter would have that a wrestler doesn't? Could he do back round checks ? could he ask neighbours and family members have the seen him? Bringing the wrestler to his probation officer? All skills of a Bounty Hunter and none can be used in the ring. The only skills he can bring are all skills that a wrestler should already have, like tackling his opponent and pinning them. It wont make him standout at all.

You'd have been better off giving him a Dog The Bounty Hunter rip off gimmick (which I think is an awful idea) than the non gimmick you've proposed.

While I respect youre cool back story angle, I see very little legs in you're answer that would push Harper or anyone to the top.

Bounty Hunter

Before you vote remember there is still one Rebuttal to come but the poll has been added

gerrybbadd

You see beakerjoe, you're focusing too much on this "non gimmick" aspect, and the Bounty Hunter part too.

I am not proposing that Luke come in and start taking bounties in the WWE (As i already said). His past as a bounty hunter would no doubt be acknowledged, but there's no way I'm proposing that he be another Mountie - this isn't 1992. Ya, he was a bounty hunter in the past, and he kicked ass. Now, he's a wrestler, who can equally kick ass. And another thing on the "non gimmick" statement - weren't all the best guys in the business guys that didn't really have gimmicks? Steve Austin - he was just himself, with his personality turned up to 11. CM Punk? Straight Edge sure, but that was one aspect of his character.

I take on board the comparison for Erick Rowan and Nailz, but he's not the focus of the question, It's Luke Harper.What I proposed for Luke is a past, before the Wyatts, which facilitates his change to a new character, a more normal guy - but Luke Harper with his personality turned up to 11.

Now to Johnny:

beakerjoe wrote: »

Why isn't he the guy? Model employee : check, Highly talented and entertaining in the ring : check, gives his all to stick to kayfabe and does his upmost to bring his character to life and make it work : Check, has natural charisma and great mic skills : check. Not many on the roster has what he has, as Chris Jericho once said, he has all the tools to be a main eventer, just needs the right push

Model Employee. Maybe. But not relevant to the question. Highly talented. Maybe. Entertaining in the ring? Maybe to some. He's not for me. The fact of the matter when it comes to Johnny is, he's been around a long time. A really long time. His defining moment was beating Jericho at Wrestlemania. What has he done since? He got some attention because of a sing a long to his theme tune the night after Mania, but since then, has slid further down the card.

beakerjoe wrote: »

What? You know his tablet doesn't actually have control to anything in reality right? Its all kayfabe. Its just a prop. If he was unmasked? That would be all the WWEs creative teams job to make sure the angle wouldn't go in that direction. Hed never be in the position to be unmasked unless that's were a particular storyline warranted. Even if he was accidently unmasked, a tight haircut and a beard or some facial hair could hide who he used to be and your also forgetting the goldfish memory effect that fans have. Bray Wyatt survived the Husky Harris chants after a week anyway and he did fine. If the gimmicks good and I think it is, Anon will be fine

I know the tablet is a prop. I'm making a point as to how this can be picked apart. To be honest, the first thing I thought when you presented this whole scenario was of the anonymous Raw GM that was in place for those 18 months or so. I agree that it's up to Creative to make sure he's not unmasked. But what if he is (in storyline). The universe would immediately know it was Fandango. No beard or tight haircut can disguise that fact. You're selling the fans short by saying they have a goldfish memory. The majority of them would know this was Fandango, just like they remember him as Johnny Curtis from NXT.

I like the idea for sure, but I just don't see it working. Not for Johnny / Fandango. He's been around too long for fans to not know who he is (Johnny has been in or on the fringes of the WWE since 2008). There's too much that could go wrong with the hacker gimmick, both in reality and in kayfabe. The idea isn't all that fresh either though - i'm sure a lot of fans would find a lot of similarities between the "hacking", and the exploits of Aidan Pearce in the video game, Watch Dogs.

Luke Harper has that mysterious past that would work in his favour to change his character going forward. There's not many casual WWE fans that would be aware of his past as Brodie Lee, so there's every chance for this gimmick change to be believable, and for it to be built up for the future.

When done with Bray & Erick, there's all the potential in the world for Luke to move up the card. He could talk about how aggrieved he is to have missed out on all those years, acting as a zombie under the control of Bray & Sister Abigail. How, he now had his family back, and he was going to make sure that their future was going to be golden - he'd ensure this by becoming Champion.

beakerjoe

Poll bump!