Merits of post mortems

Connemara Farmer

Nothing has died happily, I was reading of a death earlier and it got me thinking. I've never sent a sheep to the lab so never had a PM done. Those of you that have done so, what did you find useful about it? Was the lab able to give conclusive answers etc? I'm not against the idea at all, just wondering how effective the PM is.

AntrimGlens

I bought a Zwarble lamb in the spring (january) as a foster lamb, gave £35 quid for it. The ewe had taken it well and it was thriving super so I let it out of the pen into a larger pen and the next morning I noticed it lame and stiff when it went to rise. Was slow to suck and by that night it was lying prostrate and was dead by the morning. Sent it for pm as i could only think it was either pulpy kidney or had gorged itself on creep when it was moved into the bigger pen. Turned out it was oxalate nephropathy which is hereditary in zwarbles and is a build up of crystals within the kidneys and ultimately death.
Proved worthwhile as i'll never buy another badger in my life, only bought it as no-one else around was lambing at that time. Didn't find any mention of it in my sheep diseases book either, so would always have been guessing.

greysides

I won't comment from a farmers POV or even from the POV of sending sheep but in general.

I usually find lab results are less than definite in their conclusions. At the time it's frustrating but there are a few factors in play.

Firstly, anything coming out of the lab has to be 100% proven, some results may end up in front of juries. They may be the stimulus for a long expensive vaccination campaign.
Secondly, they can only go on what they find/results of tests done. Often gross PM findings may be very suggestive but the definitive proof elusive. If something is found, it was there, great. If nothing was found, it may still be there but just wasn't located.
Sometimes many samples are needed to discover the cause (eg. abortion storm) and that's just the way it is. The evidence may be gone from most samples especially where the disease is chronic such as in a heavily decomposed foetus.
Prior antibiotic treatment may have removed all bacteria that might otherwise be cultured. Those left being few and hidden in cells rather than being available outside to be picked up on a swab.
Samples may not arrive in a suitable condition- no preservative or tissue deterioration since death. Sheep with their fleece and high internal body temp are notorious for this. The lining of the gut is a tissue that breaks down very quickly in all species.

In terms of haematology, the results can be ambiguous. You may be no wiser after than you were before when you take into consideration the befuddling characteristics.

All in all, some of the problem is with us. We have the expectation that something sent to the lab will definitely come back with a solid conclusion. We're disappointed when it doesn't as we were depending on it. Science just doesn't work like that.

All you can do is send enough of the correct samples, stored in the correct manner, taken as soon as possible after death and transported quickly...... and hope for the best.

razor8

Sent samples to Sligo lab a few times in past. Mainly abortion issues and were very helpful and only cost around €15 to do


I would do it more often if lab was a bit closer as it takes me a hr to get there and hr back

On another note I think Fec sampling has been a huge benefit to my flock here. You know exactly what you are trying to kill

Farrell

razor8 wrote: »

Sent samples to Sligo lab a few times in past. Mainly abortion issues and were very helpful and only cost around €15 to do


I would do it more often if lab was a bit closer as it takes me a hr to get there and hr back

On another note I think Fec sampling has been a huge benefit to my flock here. You know exactly what you are trying to kill

FEC sampling is it expensive, hard to do, delays for results?

razor8

It's getting more expensive every year. This year it cost €20 pre and €20 post dosing and results takes a few days. It's costs extra for fluke and cocci

Bought a DIY kit a few years ago on lost covey advice but haven't mastered using it yet!

Green farmer

I live near a lab so it's something that's easily accessible to me. I had an abortion storm here in recent years, so I found sending lambs to lab very useful. Didn't confirm outbreak but report stated findings consistent with what I suspected. I think it cost me €10 which is nothing when it helps you figure out what's gone wrong. I think the big thing is getting the animal to them as soon possible after death to get the best samples they can.

paddysdream

Farrell wrote: »

FEC sampling is it expensive, hard to do, delays for results?

Local vet does it here.2 days a week at least.
Drop in the samples in the morning and will ring back with the results that afternoon.Does worm,fluke and rumen fluke tests.

Think it costs about a tenner.Not real sure though,must look at a few bills.

All I do is pen the sheep I want to do(clean pen ie no sheep sh*t in it!) and go back in an hour and gather up about a teaspoon full from 10 or 20 sheep.Pop it into a few plastic bags,coin bags from the bank are grand,and drop it into the vet.They have proper sampling tubs in there with a little spoon type thing on the underside of the lid but never think of getting them until its too late.
All the samples should be fresh.

Doing ewes after the lambs are weaned I just walk around the field and gather a few fresh samples from the grass.Usually try to get a mixture of very soft,runny shi*e,some semi solid and some of the "rabbit dropping" type.

Its well worth doing as you will see;
whether your lambs need dosing.
if the dose is actually working.
the fluke status of your sheep

Have tested lambs here this year a few times before dosing(didn't have a worm burden a couple of times ie not worthwhile dosing) and twice post dosing(once for STAP and once to see if a particular dose was effective)

Have tested the hoggets for worms and both them and the ewes for fluke both in the spring and recently before the rams went in.No fluke in them but as its a bit early I will test them again towards the end of the month.

Fluke not a problem here in recent years and never had a rumen fluke result(bit wary if rumen fluke is a problem in ewes normally to be honest) but had serious problems with liver fluke here a few years ago.

eire23

Paying 6 euro a sample here with the results e-mailed to ya on the day if ya drop them in or next day if posted. Agree with all the statements below, well worth doing and would never go back to just dosing blindly now.

razor8

eire23 wrote: »

Paying 6 euro a sample here with the results e-mailed to ya on the day if ya drop them in or next day if posted. Agree with all the statements below, well worth doing and would never go back to just dosing blindly now.

Great value, do you mind saying who with?