Pull Bouy

Kurt Godel

(Moved the discussion from the swim log thread )

Freddio wrote: »

@kurt - care to expand on "pb stuff"

Kurt Godel wrote: »

pb=pull bouy

Main part of this set was using pb. I usually hate the pb and am slower with it, but have been using it a lot recently and have noticed a benefit to my catch. I think this catch helped during the 6k race last weekend, when I wanted to stay with groups but couldn't kick so much (because of the distance).

Freddio wrote: »

Sorry had a homer moment. I thought pb meant personal best there.

Interesting about the benefit your getting from it tho

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Yeah I was scratching my head as to why I'd need to be explaining pull bouy to you

Lately I've been swimming with others, leading off a set of 4*100pb in under 1:30. It really makes you to up your game, knowing faster fish are behind. I had to force myself to find better catch with the pb during these 100's, and that's carried through into other more recent sets too.

mad m wrote: »

get rid of pull bouy, it was my down fall. You get to rely on it too much.

Hope you don't mind guys, I've opened a separate thread because this is interesting... madm how often were you using it? Did you get faster with it? (and then I presume that speed didn't translate without it?)

mad m

Yeah if I was doing a set of 10 X 100s in a main session I used it every other 100. I was always faster with it. I reckon this is why I cramped up doing the Liffey swim, legs just werent used to kicking.

Its been thrown in under the stairs for time being.:)

MojoMaker

I'm a bit like mad_m in that I grew to treasure my pb and it quickly became my favourite toy in the swim bag. Faster sets, better body alignment, easier bilateral breathing, better technical catch & pull etc - and my endurance seemed better as I have a strong upper body anyway.

On the minus side, my kick disappeared and while this is not exposed too much in an OW wetsuit swim it is exposed badly in pool situation and I am going to spend the winter cutting the pb work back to 1-2 sessions per week and make sure I have at least 2 or 3 solid sets each week with no pb present.

On the balance of it all the pb accelerated my OW wetsuit tri swims but taught me a few bad habits regarding general swimming so I'm out to correct those now while still enjoying the power upgrade doing lots of KMs with the pb can give.

Sounds like you have a strong kick KG?

Kurt Godel

I've always been slower with the pb, to the extent that I'd choose to go without it if I was doing group sets where others had the pb (so long as coach agreed I could do so). Lately thats not been an option, so I've been forced to get faster with pb, and that means getting more from catch and pull. During the Petrified Forest 6k race at the weekend, I "engaged" this new catch and pull to better effect (wetsuit swim).

My pure kick in the pool is relatively weak- I'd be one of the slowest when doing kick drills. However my "flutter" kick (which aids horizontal alignment rather than pure propulsion) is fairly decent. I think the pb is an almost essential part of my pool bag now, but like any other swim aid, needs to be used purposefully. There's no point in using it (IMO) if your fastest 100's are with the pb- something is wrong there. With swimming it seems there is no "right" way of doing things, at a certain stage you realise what is working for you, and what is not, and that very much depends on the swimmer.

MojoMaker

You must have your horizontal alignment well sorted by now KG, and sounds like the pb has helped your catch and pull nicely. How do you fare in non-wetsuit OW swims as a matter of interest? Personally I have found the additional strength gained from putting in the KMs with the pb helps a lot in 2nd half of longer OW swims where a long powerful stroke can help keep the rhythm ticking over.

Kurt Godel

MojoMaker wrote: »

You must have your horizontal alignment well sorted by now KG, and sounds like the pb has helped your catch and pull nicely. How do you fare in non-wetsuit OW swims as a matter of interest? Personally I have found the additional strength gained from putting in the KMs with the pb helps a lot in 2nd half of longer OW swims where a long powerful stroke can help keep the rhythm ticking over.

Yes I've found the same thing, I tend to be relatively strong in the latter part of OW races (both wetsuit and skins). Now to work on getting a bit of speed!

MojoMaker

My mission for October is to leave the PB at home for every swim session and focus on driving the kick to force the alignment the pb provides. First few sessions have been difficult but there is light at the end of the tunnel I hope. Going to keep one weekly session with paddles and pb for stroke development but all others are going without and I'm just gonna grin and bear it and get the timing as correct as possible.

gutenberg

I hope you don't mind my butting in... I've been using a pull buoy a lot recently as I have been suffering with a knee problem. Just out interest, how much of a session would you give over to kick sets? I usually do at least one dedicated kick set, and maybe throw in a few kick reps on something like a 10 x 100. And do you use fins much?

mad m

Hate kick sets, don't normally do much kick sets during the week session, but on a Saturday I normally do an all drills session and would do at least 500m just with kick and with fins which would either break it up doing 10x50 or 5x100. PB is totally getting covered in cobwebs now.

Found it hard at first without it, have even had to sit out the odd 100 or more. But getting better at staying the course lately.

Kurt Godel

I hate kick sets too, but view them as a necessary evil!:D I think if you are going to break down your technique by using a pb, then its vital you also give some time to pure kick . We would usually start off our Masters sessions with a warm up, then something like 10*50 (25 kick, 25 drill or swim), then the main set. No board for the kicks, you just hold the arms straight out in front like superman and go for it. I find pure kick extremely tough, but practice makes perfect and they've been getting easier lately. Personally I don't like using fins, too much ankle stress.

Kick is a weapon in races!

gutenberg

Yes, I used to hate kick when I swam for a club But I can see why it's important. I use fins sometimes as I still have quite flexible ankles, and I find they work my legs harder.

HobbyMan

In our masters group we might do 10 X 50 with pb and paddles. This would be at the start of the session to get a good feel for the water afterwards.

We usually do a 8 X 50 kick however when the others are doing that I usually jump on the back and do my, what I call, one arm forward exercise (there must be a proper name for it).

The rest of the session is usually mixed stroke and mixed distanced (4 x 100 im for example).

For a good sculling feel try doing sculling exercises or even the doggie paddle. You'd need the pb for these too.