Oil burner noisy after service

dnme

Hi folks,

I got the boiler serviced yesterday by a local tradesman. Ever since then, it is running quite loud. It is making a very loud deep droning noise while it runs. It's a kind of low frequency noise that penetrates the walls. The boiler is situated in it's own boiler house just outside the back kitchen door. This morning when it went off, it woke me up. Its never done that before. I've texted the boiler fella and told him. He says he will inspect the flu.

I'm a bit worried cos it's one of those less than tangible things. He can argue one way and say it's normal etc. Just wondering if anyone can offer any advice as to how I should proceed with this and how I might deal with him. Any idea what is causing the noise ?

Any help very much appreciated.

jimf

did you get a print out from a flugas analyser from him

Wearb

jimf wrote: »

did you get a print out from a flugas analyser from him

Doesn't sound like it ;-)

dnme

jimf wrote: »

did you get a print out from a flugas analyser from him

Yes I did, its at home, I can let you know its readings tonight. I think its running pretty well in terms of emissions and efficiency. It's just that it now has this new deep low droning noise.

jimf

some boilers if extra dirty can sound a bit different after a good cleaning but the flue should have been checked as part of the service anyway

how long did the service take

dnme

jimf wrote: »

some boilers if extra dirty can sound a bit different after a good cleaning but the flue should have been checked as part of the service anyway

how long did the service take

Took about an hour.

jimf

best to get him back and check over everything please post the print out readings later

scudo2

It should always be the same noise, or quiter.
Never louder,
After a service.

Stella Virgo

sounds like he turned up the pressure too much.....done some times when the pump is starting to fail.
re check pressure using a gauge ,not his ear

dnme

Stella Virgo wrote: »

sounds like he turned up the pressure too much.....done some times when the pump is starting to fail.
re check pressure using a gauge ,not his ear

He mentioned that the oil pressure was low at 6bar. He put it to 8 I think. How does that sound ?

dnme

Gas analysis readings are as follows

O2 % - 5.3
CO (PPM) - 21
CO2 % - 11.6
RATIO - 0.0002
PRESSURE (mBar) - 0.33
TEMP (NET) C - 154
TEMP FLUE C - 176
EFF NET % - 93.2
XS AIR % - 34.1

scudo2

dnme wrote: »

Gas analysis readings are as follows

O2 % - 5.3
CO (PPM) - 21
CO2 % - 11.6
RATIO - 0.0002
PRESSURE (mBar) - 0.33
TEMP (NET) C - 154
TEMP FLUE C - 176
EFF NET % - 93.2
XS AIR % - 34.1

Spot on settings.
What type/ make + age of boiler ?

It might be possible to change type of nozzle to change noise levels.

dnme

scudo2 wrote: »

Spot on settings.
What type/ make + age of boiler ?

It might be possible to change type of nozzle to change noise levels.

He was back this evening and reckons he can't do anything about the noise. He did say that he changed the nozzle during the service and I reckon that might be the issue. He reckons the old nozzle was not correct and that his nozzle is. So I am thinking I might ask another boiler repair person to have a listen and see what they think. The noise seems to be coming from the flu chimney which comes up about three feet out of the boiler house roof. The boiler sits in a small boiler house just outside the kitchen window.

This is it pictured, forgive the image quality, dark outside and using phone.

scudo2

FB need a H or EH nozzle.

Better still. Replace boiler and save 30% on oil.

Make sure flue is solid, ie. brackets/clamps as it can vibrate magnifying noise.

dnme

scudo2 wrote: »

FB need a H or EH nozzle.

Better still. Replace boiler and save 30% on oil.

Make sure flue is solid, ie. brackets/clamps as it can vibrate magnifying noise.

I'm a tennant so replacing boiler is not an option. The flu is well installed, it does not vibrate or rattle in any way. When the boiler is running, i press against it and there is no movement whatsoever. The drone coming from it remains though.

I sincerely reckon the man who serviced it is a reputable, reliable and honest tradesman. I just think this is one of those situations that is hard to argue. I'm gonna need to get a second opinion by asking someone else to have a listen.

If anyone is in the trade and is ever passing through Gort, Co. Galway, I wonder would you drop in and have a listen if you had a spare minute? if so - pm me. If nothing else I'll have the kettle on.

jimf

id like to know what nozzle is fitted and what pressure pump is set to flame could be way out for that combustion chamber

the original settings I have for that boiler is .6x80h nozzle at 8bar pressure delivering 81000btu

jimf

dnme wrote: »

I'm a tennant so replacing boiler is not an option. The flu is well installed, it does not vibrate or rattle in any way. When the boiler is running, i press against it and there is no movement whatsoever. The drone coming from it remains though.

I sincerely reckon the man who serviced it is a reputable, reliable and honest tradesman. I just think this is one of those situations that is hard to argue. I'm gonna need to get a second opinion by asking someone else to have a listen.

If anyone is in the trade and is ever passing through Gort, Co. Galway, I wonder would you drop in and have a listen if you had a spare minute? if so - pm me. If nothing else I'll have the kettle on.

we used to have a guy on here before who would go anywhere for a cup of tae and a hug I wonder if he would be interested

dnme

jimf wrote: »

id like to know what nozzle is fitted and what pressure pump is set to flame could be way out for that combustion chamber

the original settings I have for that boiler is .6x80h nozzle at 8bar pressure delivering 81000btu

Jim,
He did tell me that oil pressure was way down, 5-6bar apparently. He said he put it to 8bar so that sounds about right. As for the nozzle, I have no idea and don't really want to go messing around with a boiler that I know nothing about. Is it easy to determine the nozzle type ?

Wearb

dnme wrote: »

Jim,
He did tell me that oil pressure was way down, 5-6bar apparently. He said he put it to 8bar so that sounds about right. As for the nozzle, I have no idea and don't really want to go messing around with a boiler that I know nothing about. Is it easy to determine the nozzle type ?

Nozzle size should be on the CD11 or similar document left along with the FGA printout.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Nozzle size should be on the CD11 or similar document left along with the FGA printout.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm as somebody used to say ;)

jimf

dnme wrote: »

Jim,
He did tell me that oil pressure was way down, 5-6bar apparently. He said he put it to 8bar so that sounds about right. As for the nozzle, I have no idea and don't really want to go messing around with a boiler that I know nothing about. Is it easy to determine the nozzle type ?

it would involve a bit of stripping to access the nozzle but I would not be very impressed with this service

at the end of the day you have to do everything you can to hold onto a customer and make sure they are happy in the hope they will pass on your no to their friends and family

scudo2

PM Shane.
He'll travel anywhere.
Mention my name and you'll get a 20% discount.

jimf

scudo2 wrote: »

PM Shane.
He'll travel anywhere.
Mention my name and you'll get a 20% discount.

don't mention him and you will get 40% :p

behave yourself scudo :D

Wearb

scudo2 wrote: »

PM Shane.
He'll travel anywhere.
Mention my name and you'll get a 20% discount.

Unlike Jim. You must have a really short memory Scudo.

jimf

Wearb wrote: »

Unlike Jim. You must have a really short memory Scudo.

he must feel like a holiday :eek::eek:

yipeeeee

jimf wrote: »

did you get a print out from a flugas analyser from him

Why is this always the standard answer when someone poses a question!

jimf

yipeeeee wrote: »

Why is this always the standard answer when someone poses a question!

it gives us some idea of the credentials of the person carrying out the service

yipeeeee

jimf wrote: »

it gives us some idea of the credentials of the person carrying out the service

Ah I know don't get me wrong, it just seems to be the first question even though it sometimes has nothing to do with the problem.

Plus seems their pretty cheap to pick up nowadays I wouldn't base this on the credentials of the person carrying out the work.

yipeeeee

jimf wrote: »

it gives us some idea of the credentials of the person carrying out the service

Ah I know don't get me wrong, it just seems to be the first question even though it sometimes has nothing to do with the problem.

Plus seems their pretty cheap to pick up nowadays I wouldn't base this on the credentials of the person carrying out the work.

scudo2

yipeeeee wrote: »

Ah I know don't get me wrong, it just seems to be the first question even though it sometimes has nothing to do with the problem.

Plus seems their pretty cheap to pick up nowadays I wouldn't base this on the credentials of the person carrying out the work.

FGA is the only proof of the pudding.
If somebody has invested €700 in the equipment, it shows a willingness to provide a service to the best of their abilitys.
The readings posted by OP were good.

Servicing without FGA is very common and potential dangerous. Cowboy work in my opinion.
I have full respect for the FGA guys.

yipeeeee

scudo2 wrote: »

FGA is the only proof of the pudding.
If somebody has invested €700 in the equipment, it shows a willingness to provide a service to the best of their abilitys.
The readings posted by OP were good.

Servicing without FGA is very common and potential dangerous. Cowboy work in my opinion.
I have full respect for the FGA guys.

I have seen lads with FGA but have no idea what that are doing.

But I accept your point.

jimf

yipeeeee wrote: »

I have seen lads with FGA but have no idea what that are doing.

But I accept your point.

yes I would agree they are out there

dnme

Just asked the plumber what nozzle he fitted. He replied .6 80H.

Wearb

yipeeeee wrote: »

Why is this always the standard answer when someone poses a question!

Along with showing someone's credentials, the figures shown on the FGA can tell an experienced person a lot of information about what a problem may be.
Most very experienced plumbers can set up a boiler to run fairly well without a FGA and smoke pump, but I can guarantee that it can be improved upon with the proper equipment in the right hands.
This saves the customer money in the long run; not to mention the environment. We have all seen bent/burned baffles and destroyed burner heads from bad set-ups that look good with a visual check.

So next time you see this question asked, you will know why and that its not just somebody nit-picking.

scudo2

Sorry, I should have said GOOD guys.

How their still useless on getting it right baffles me.
Even if it takes them hours to get it right in the beginning, the FGA doesn't lie.

EVENTUALLY they should get the hang of it !!!

I wish.

Wearb

dnme wrote: »

Just asked the plumber what nozzle he fitted. He replied .6 80H.

Should be correct then.

Only other thing I can think of is the fan out of balance, due to dirt or damage. You could try putting your hand on the burner when its running to see if its vibrating. Make sure not to disturb anything or burn yourself.

dnme

Wearb wrote: »

Should be correct then.

Only other thing I can think of is the fan out of balance, due to dirt or damage. You could try putting your hand on the burner when its running to see if its vibrating. Make sure not to disturb anything or burn yourself.

Already did that. Everything is stable and well fixed including the flu. The low drone / throaty noise is coming out of the top of the flu. The burner itself sounds absolutely normal.

crock!

Check the baffles

jimf

a slight adjustment back on the oil pressure would mean the same on the air damper and could make all the difference

most likely the baffles are not in the best of condition so not a lot of restriction through the chamber

dnme

jimf wrote: »

a slight adjustment back on the oil pressure would mean the same on the air damper and could make all the difference

most likely the baffles are not in the best of condition so not a lot of restriction through the chamber

I'll have to get someone in to have a listen to it. I've already spent €100, really pissing me off that I'm gonna have to endure another callout fee. Thanks for all the help here. Its very much appreciated.

jimf

dnme wrote: »

I'll have to get someone in to have a listen to it. I've already spent €100, really pissing me off that I'm gonna have to endure another callout fee. Thanks for all the help here. Its very much appreciated.

£100 im feckin moving to gort :P:P

dnme

jimf wrote: »

£100 im feckin moving to gort :P:P

Well that included a new hydraulic valve.

corkgsxr

scudo2 wrote: »

Sorry, I should have said GOOD guys.

How their still useless on getting it right baffles me.
Even if it takes them hours to get it right in the beginning, the FGA doesn't lie.

EVENTUALLY they should get the hang of it !!!

I wish.

Just getting a fga receipt isn't a guarantee either. He could get one boiler right and be lashing out repeats with the date whipped off.

Wearb

corkgsxr wrote: »

Just getting a fga receipt isn't a guarantee either. He could get one boiler right and be lashing out repeats with the date whipped off.

And if something goes wrong that requires an investigation and a record of the FGA, then where does the boiler technician go. I never thought of doing that, but if you did, then I am sure those clever people from the HSA will have thought of that also.

DGOBS

OP, in the past I have come across a boiler or two that resonate with the flue pipe, this can usually be solved by slightly 'tuning out' the appliance settings, but maintaining a clean and efficient burn, most likely thats why the original serviceman left the oil pressure so low (bait too low, 7bar would be the minimum for Kero)

There's no hard fast rule to it, it involves a bit of playing around with the settings, maybe using a smaller nozzle and a higher pressure sometimes works, once I tried by adding an extra flue section, and it worked.

It's akin to playing a flute!

JamesM

I would agree with DGOBS and jimf, easing back the oil pressure a bit should stop the drone, then re-test. Unfortunately this is not something the householder should do and it's difficult to stand over a service guy and tell him what "someone on boards" said to do :(

jca

dnme wrote: »

Just asked the plumber what nozzle he fitted. He replied .6 80H.

I have a bit of a dilemma here guys. I was advised by someone on boards via pm to use a .60 80 deg ES jet in my fibrebird heatpac 90. I see here that people are recommending a .60 80 deg H or EH jet. I'm burning kerosene btw.

Wearb

jca wrote: »

I have a bit of a dilemma here guys. I was advised by someone on boards via pm to use a .60 80 deg ES jet in my fibrebird heatpac 90. I see here that people are recommending a .60 80 deg H or EH jet. I'm burning kerosene btw.

That probably won't make a big difference. Should be possible to get a good setup with that nozzle also. What are the FGA readings?

scudo2

Nozzles, no matter what type recommended are not always perfect.

Sometimes you have to play around with a few + different settings to stop/reduce flue noise.

At the end of the day it should NEVER be louder after service.

Not a time consuming exercise,
(hot blast tube is a pain)
but took me a while to learn the first few times.

agusta

jca wrote: »

I have a bit of a dilemma here guys. I was advised by someone on boards via pm to use a .60 80 deg ES jet in my fibrebird heatpac 90. I see here that people are recommending a .60 80 deg H or EH jet. I'm burning kerosene btw.

You werent advised wrong but not quite correct either.It depends on the output you require from the boiler for your house.
For example if your boiler is "S" range with a riello rdb2.2 burner you can run it a/70,000btu with a .6 80H nozzle at 8 bar pressure
b/80,000btu with a .65 80H nozzle at 8 bar pressure
c/90,000btu with a .65 80S nozzle at 9.5 bar pressure
For this boiler H nozzle can be changed for EH and S nozzle changed for ES with a slight change to the oil pressure for the same output

DGOBS

All the while keeping a good eye on the flue temperature