Bought car with Fake NCT - resolved

NapoleonInRags

I needed a cheap runaround and bought a 10 year old motor off adverts for 800 quid - with a 9 month NCT.

The guy seemed plausible, we met at 'his house', test drive checked out etc. First name on VLC was different than the name he gave me but said he was selling for his Dad.

I've just discovered that the NCT is fake, because the NCT website says it was up in May 2014 and it's letting me book a new test.

I have the name and address of the owner. I have also found an old ad for the car on adverts and I can see that the guy who sold me the car originally bought the car from this seller. The guy who sold the car to him was up front in saying that the NCT was about to run out. I presume that this guy bought the car, tested it and it failed and put a fake nct cert on it to move it on.

The cert looks legit and is not one of the stolen numbers as per NCT website.
I've tried to contact the guy back but unsurprisingly, no response.

Any advice as to what I should do here?

JJJJNR

Put it through the nct, no point pursuing it now.

NapoleonInRags

JJJJNR wrote: »

Put it through the nct, no point pursuing it now.

Really? Just tolerate someone fraudulently selling me a vehicle that may not be roadworthy?

moonshadow

Your problem ..your choice ...easy escape you have no warranty.

Stheno

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

Really? Just tolerate someone fraudulently selling me a vehicle that may not be roadworthy?

Caveat emptor applies to private sales I'm afraid

Sam Kade

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

I needed a cheap runaround and bought a 10 year old motor off adverts for 800 quid - with a 9 month NCT.

The guy seemed plausible, we met at 'his house', test drive checked out etc. First name on VLC was different than the name he gave me but said he was selling for his Dad.

I've just discovered that the NCT is fake, because the NCT website says it was up in May 2014 and it's letting me book a new test.

I have the name and address of the owner. I have also found an old ad for the car on adverts and I can see that the guy who sold me the car originally bought the car from this seller. The guy who sold the car to him was up front in saying that the NCT was about to run out. I presume that this guy bought the car, tested it and it failed and put a fake nct cert on it to move it on.

The cert looks legit and is not one of the stolen numbers as per NCT website.
I've tried to contact the guy back but unsurprisingly, no response.

Any advice as to what I should do here?

Your first big mistake you should only buy from the person that's named on the vlc when buying private. Did the address match the vlc?

Pro Hoc Vice

Stheno wrote: »

Caveat emptor applies to private sales I'm afraid

Caveat emptor does not apply to fraud, if a person selling the car says it has a NCT when it does not that is a totally different issue to not saying anything about NCT.

Also caveat emptor does not apply to private car sale where a dangerous defect exists.

To the OP the guy mat have committed a number of criminal offences, the options are to make a complaint to AGS and to sue the person in the DC for your money back.

bazz26

I'm not sure what else you really can do OP. Chances are he disposed of the SIM as soon as you drove away, you probably are not the first person he has done this to and will probably surface again to dupe someone else with a different contact number.

I'd tend to concentrate on putting the car through the NCT, while the guy who sold you the car with a fake NCT is dodgy, the car itself if you are lucky may only need a small amount of work done on it to pass the NCT. All you can really do then is chalk it down to experience.

ectoraige

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm not sure what else you really can do OP. Chances are he disposed of the SIM as soon as you drove away, you probably are not the first person he has done this to and will probably surface again to dupe someone else with a different contact number.

Maybe he's not that smart, OP should pay a visit to the Gardaí anyway, fake NCT certs shouldn't be treated lightly.

biko

I agree with the others, take it to AGS. They might already know this guy and need more evidence.

Kenny Logins

JJJJNR wrote: »

Put it through the nct, no point pursuing it now.

Eh? ..and allow the seller to pull this stunt again? There may not be any comeback on this sale, but that doesn't mean the OP shouldn't report it.

Moneymaker

Inform the guards.

At least it was only a few hundred quid. It sucks but it's a lesson learned.

NIMAN

I certainly wouldn't be forgetting about it, faking an official document is serious and the Guards should at least have the information, whether or not they want to take it further.

CiniO

I'd say first thing OP should do is to contact NCT to verify if it's actually really fake.
There might be mistake on NCT website.
Fact that OP is able to book new nct is irrelevant as anyone can book nct now at anytime since voluntary early testing was introduced.

bear1

OP, the next time you need to buy a car just check the NCT validity on the NCT website.
It's free and you will know in 5secs if the NCT is real or not.
Consider yourself lucky cause the other day a lad posted that he paid 5k for a car and it was then impounded by the police as it was stolen (I believe) guy is out of pocket 5k.
Make the complaint and in the mean time stick it through the NCT and see how it does.

Nody

bear1 wrote: »

OP, the next time you need to buy a car just check the NCT validity on the NCT website.
It's free and you will know in 5secs if the NCT is real or not.
Consider yourself lucky cause the other day a lad posted that he paid 5k for a car and it was then impounded by the police as it was stolen (I believe) guy is out of pocket 5k.
Make the complaint and in the mean time stick it through the NCT and see how it does.

Not stolen; it had finance on it and was reclaimed by the finance company while the gardai was on site confirming they had the right to take it. At least if you're talking about the thread less then a week ago.

bear1

Nody wrote: »

Not stolen; it had finance on it and was reclaimed by the finance company while the gardai was on site confirming they had the right to take it. At least if you're talking about the thread less then a week ago.

That's the one. Couldn't remember 100% if the car was stolen or finance oweing.

DakarVert

Hardly a Ford Ka is it?

goz83

Small community :pac:

I can clear this one up. The car in question was my brothers and advertised through my adverts account. I'm the one who was dealing with the sale. The car is in great shape and far from dangerous. My personal number was given. Was sold from my house. What I didn't know, was that my brother had let someone else get a quick nct, which, thanks to the OP doing a proper check, we have found out it was a fake nct. This was 5 months ago.

The OP was ringing me when I was at the cinema. He was contacted back by me and my brother also rang to apologise and explain. He was offered a full refund if not happy with car, or €100 to cover the cost of an nct and the tracking done, which is the only known thing that the car needed. The OP met my brother a few hours ago and accepted the €100. So, not a story of fraud and luckily, the OP has a really good car for the money.

My brother is going to go after the other guy, as he claimed the car was tested and was 100%. It all started, because the test was running out a few days after my brother bought the car and there was a 6 week wait at the centre. Some lad he was working with claimed he knew one of the lads at the centre and could get a test that day for €100 :rolleyes:

My lesson: only advertise my own stuff for sale

Happy motoring all.

snaps

Perhaps this "Lad" that works at the nct center should be reported to the gardai? Has he stolen offical nct certs and made a quick 100€ by printing an offical cert out for a car?

What ever has come of this, there's fraud that has taken place by the guy who done the "Quick nct". It may not be just a 1 off case either?

visual

In the lower price brackets on Done Deal and im sure other sites too there is lots and lots of cars advertised with fraudulent nct certs.

Luckily you can check on nct web site when cars next nct is due buy just entering reg number and it cost nothing.

I was surprised no shocked at the number of cars that had false nct .

The J Stands for Jay

Moneymaker wrote: »

Inform the guards.

At least it was only a few hundred quid. It sucks but it's a lesson learned.

How do you check if an NCT cert is valid?

NIMAN

https://ncts.ie/booking_app/Bookings/ncTReminder.aspx?language=english

And type in the reg of car. You should be able to tell by the dates if its real or not.

ironclaw

NIMAN wrote: »

https://ncts.ie/booking_app/Bookings/ncTReminder.aspx?language=english

And type in the reg of car. You should be able to tell by the dates if its real or not.

Boggles the mind why the NCT don't make some cash on the side by providing say the last 10 certs for a fee to potential buyers.

CiniO

NIMAN wrote: »

https://ncts.ie/booking_app/Bookings/ncTReminder.aspx?language=english

And type in the reg of car. You should be able to tell by the dates if its real or not.

Well I wouldn't believe this system.
I entered details of car which doesn't exist since 2011, and it says that NCT is due in June 2014. It's last NCT expired in June 2012, and no one ever NCTed it since.

NIMAN

It works ok for my 2 cars.

CiniO

NIMAN wrote: »

It works ok for my 2 cars.

Do those cars have valid NCT?

NIMAN

Of course they do, you calling me a Del Boy:D

visual

CiniO wrote: »

Do those cars have valid NCT?

The system does work might not be faultless but its dam close. Much better than trying to detect a forged nct cert from some chancer selling car in carpark.

I checked mine and family members cars including one with expired nct all showed up correctly.

cerastes

ironclaw wrote: »

Boggles the mind why the NCT don't make some cash on the side by providing say the last 10 certs for a fee to potential buyers.

For the love of christ!
we already pay for the service! whats wrong with at least providing some information so someone can check if a vehicle has the NCT, without having to put their hand in their pocket, most cars are at this stage in annual NCTs, so if you already have a car or are buying, you will already be paying for this.

How about you are able to print off from online or show online the car has had so many tests, passed failed with details? for the owner that has already paid for the service or some summary of this?

DakarVert

IIRC correctly, What I do is go to book a test (Pay at center) Enter the vehicle reg and Date of First registration... It'll tell you when/where it was last tested.

ironclaw

cerastes wrote: »

For the love of christ!
we already pay for the service! whats wrong with at least providing some information so someone can check if a vehicle has the NCT, without having to put their hand in their pocket, most cars are at this stage in annual NCTs, so if you already have a car or are buying, you will already be paying for this.

How about you are able to print off from online or show online the car has had so many tests, passed failed with details? for the owner that has already paid for the service or some summary of this?

Well, as much as we pay for it, I wouldn't agree with anyone being able to get that data for free. I know its effectively useless but still, every Tom & Dick would be a private investigator if you just needed to knock in the reg. At least with some charge it would limit it to those with a serious interest.

NapoleonInRags

goz83 wrote: »

Small community :pac:

I can clear this one up. The car in question was my brothers and advertised through my adverts account. I'm the one who was dealing with the sale. The car is in great shape and far from dangerous. My personal number was given. Was sold from my house. What I didn't know, was that my brother had let someone else get a quick nct, which, thanks to the OP doing a proper check, we have found out it was a fake nct. This was 5 months ago.

The OP was ringing me when I was at the cinema. He was contacted back by me and my brother also rang to apologise and explain. He was offered a full refund if not happy with car, or €100 to cover the cost of an nct and the tracking done, which is the only known thing that the car needed. The OP met my brother a few hours ago and accepted the €100. So, not a story of fraud and luckily, the OP has a really good car for the money.

My brother is going to go after the other guy, as he claimed the car was tested and was 100%. It all started, because the test was running out a few days after my brother bought the car and there was a 6 week wait at the centre. Some lad he was working with claimed he knew one of the lads at the centre and could get a test that day for €100 :rolleyes:

My lesson: only advertise my own stuff for sale

Happy motoring all.

As the OP I can confirm that the above is 100% correct. In fairness to Goz and his brother they were 100% upfront in sorting this out.

snaps

NapoleonInRags wrote: »

As the OP I can confirm that the above is 100% correct. In fairness to Goz and his brother they were 100% upfront in sorting this out.

But how did the fake nct come about? That's a serious offence.

Riesen_Meal

snaps wrote: »

But how did the fake nct come about? That's a serious offence.

Chap in the NCT centre I assume?

cerastes

Have to say, Im still a bit perplexed about some things,
anyway if its sorted, alls well.

ironclaw wrote: »

Well, as much as we pay for it, I wouldn't agree with anyone being able to get that data for free. I know its effectively useless but still, every Tom & Dick would be a private investigator if you just needed to knock in the reg. At least with some charge it would limit it to those with a serious interest.

We have paid for it, and if we are selling it anyone can check it, makes it very convenient. Start charging others for it and then we, who have already paid for it will be next.
At the least a summary should be available of the NCT history and mileage to the owner, but it'd be much more verifiable if any buyer could check NCT was complete and when due on the system, eliminates the possibility of a fraudulent document being done up.
What would it matter if any tom dick or harry was able to check it? its supposed to be done anyway? doesnt need to give away address location or name of owner, in fact shouldnt.
I posted on another thread and I noticed you also advocated the ability of gosafe to check for NCT, tax, ins, why shouldnt a private individual be able to check NCT is complete, its a very reasonable thing to expect a prospective buyer would need to check? doesnt need to give out anything they dont need, like the owners name, or cant see by looking at the car. Why is it ok for private company to be able to check these details and not an individual?

visual

ironclaw wrote: »

Well, as much as we pay for it, I wouldn't agree with anyone being able to get that data for free. I know its effectively useless but still, every Tom & Dick would be a private investigator if you just needed to knock in the reg. At least with some charge it would limit it to those with a serious interest.

Why put financial barriers in the way of getting information. As a citizen who pays for all these quangos I should be able to access information without paying for it twice. I also like to have it available before I buy a car.

Excluding personal information the test results and recorded mileage should be made available at no charge.

snaps

Nobody seems to be getting my point here.......Someone has provided a fake nct cert for a car that was sold. Surely this is a huge area of concern.

I would hazzard a guess this car that was sold wasn't or will not be the last car provided with a fake nct cert from this source?

Does everyone accept its no big deal?

How would you stand if you brought a car with a fake nct and you got stopped by the cops a few months after thinking everything is rosey?

Where would you stand legally?

Pro Hoc Vice

snaps wrote: »

Nobody seems to be getting my point here.......Someone has provided a fake nct cert for a car that was sold. Surely this is a huge area of concern.

I would hazzard a guess this car that was sold wasn't or will not be the last car provided with a fake nct cert from this source?

Does everyone accept its no big deal?

How would you stand if you brought a car with a fake nct and you got stopped by the cops a few months after thinking everything is rosey?

Where would you stand legally?

I said in the first page of this thread that a criminal offence may have been committed and it was open to make a complaint to AGS.

You bring up an interesting question and I wonder (considering how easy it is to check) is it just ok to say about a fake cert I did not know. I recently helped a friend buy a second hand car and every car was run through carcheck to buy a car with out doing so may lead to issues.

ironclaw

cerastes wrote: »

I posted on another thread and I noticed you also advocated the ability of gosafe to check for NCT, tax, ins, why shouldnt a private individual be able to check NCT is complete, its a very reasonable thing to expect a prospective buyer would need to check? doesnt need to give out anything they dont need, like the owners name, or cant see by looking at the car. Why is it ok for private company to be able to check these details and not an individual?

Because the private companie(s) in question have to comply with Data Protection and ISO standards, that costs money. And when they implement such a service, its costs money. Even to correlate and present that data, would cost money. So either way, you are going to pay for it (Higher test fees, or perhaps a tenner when you want to 'buy it') The data, as useless as it my look to you, is actually very valuable. If you had a massive data catalog of test results, mileage etc its actually really good statistical information if you wanted to sell it. Its not so much about an owners information being handed out, it shouldn't be, it should be pure car data but just handing out test cert information for free is a bad idea.

As regards GoSafe et al, as bad and all as they are, they are operating in the interest of the State and if they checked NCT, Tax & Insurance compliance then it would be a benefit to us all.

I just feel we have enough internet PIs (look at the 'What I saw today thread') At the moment we can confirm a car is legit or not by the reg, I don't really fancy someone saying 'Ah yeah, that's an M5 with tax out since blah and the last NCTs were blah and look the insurance is out' or every nosey neighbor running cars through to lamp the local Garda station with complaints. That type of toss just isn't necessary on the internet in my opinion. I feel its best left to those with a serious interest (i.e. Happy to pay for it as buying the car and have a genuine interest) or the authorities.

cerastes

I didn't say the data had no value,I am certain it has value,why if motorists who already pay so much and already pay for this service should pay again for the information where it might be handed off to a private company and be somehow obliged to pay again? Is beyond me, at worst make it so the owner can confirm to a buyer of the record online or print their own record,the extra cost to store that information, given they have some record of this already?
I'd only consider it details to be checked by go safe, if it's something that frees Garda time, but no reason they can't check for that and allow at least current basic details two be confirmed by public, and detailed and summary by owner.
If I pay for my NCT,why shouldn't I be able to check cars I might purchase? Why does everything have to have an additional price tag added?

If I pay for my NCT, I'm not likely to need to access the information,but I'd be paying for others to check as I can check others too. If it helped eliminate odometer fixing and confirmed the car had actually had it's required tests history, then that would go a long way to eliminating fraud or deception for buyers Joe maybe help reduce or eliminate dangerous stuff off the roads, maybe the information should be more detailed.