Seasonal Influenza vaccine

Defender OF Faith

I don't get this why do you need to take it every year? does the virus become resistant to the vaccine on a yearly basis basically my question is why do you need to take such vaccine annually while something like Polio you only take once?

~answers appreciated!

L1011

Different strains are more common each year, the vaccine in use each year is generally a different formulation to the last year.

Defender OF Faith

MYOB wrote: »

Different strains are more common each year, the vaccine in use each year is generally a different formulation to the last year.

Aha i get it now but does that mean that there are endless strains of the virus since I assume after taking it for acouple of years you should be covered for all strains

L1011

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Aha i get it now but does that mean that there are endless strains of the virus since I assume after taking it for acouple of years you should be covered for all strains

There are a significant number of strains. I don't actually know how long immunity lasts for, but there's very few vaccines for anything that provide life long protection anyway.

These are the recommended composition for vaccines for this part of the world for the last few years;

http://www.who.int/influenza/vaccines/virus/recommendations/2014_15_north/en/
http://www.who.int/influenza/vaccines/virus/recommendations/2013_14_north/en/
http://www.who.int/influenza/vaccines/virus/recommendations/2012_13_north/en/

The swine flu vaccine a few years ago was due to that strain not being included in the seasonal vaccine that year.

echo beach

Defender OF Faith wrote: »

Aha i get it now but does that mean that there are endless strains of the virus since I assume after taking it for a couple of years you should be covered for all strains

The flu virus is constantly mutating into new strains, like swine flu. In this way it keeps one step ahead of our naturally acquired immunity from exposure to existing strains.

Rucking_Fetard

And the vaccine is only best guess what Bug it's gonna be this year. May not be worth a damn to ya.

Its gonna cost you time, money, possible few sick days with the shivers, sweating, a temp, soreness and it is only around 75% effective or something even if they pick the right strains to put in it.

Go and eat an orange.

Pretzill

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

And the vaccine is only best guess what Bug it's gonna be this year. May not be worth a damn to ya.

Its gonna cost you time, money, possible few sick days with the shivers, sweating, a temp, soreness and it is only around 75% effective or something even if they pick the right strains to put in it.

Go and eat an orange.

And how exactly would an orange protect you? It's influenza not a common cold - potentially deadly to people with compromised immune systems or of a certain age and yet you spout this misleading and useless advice.

Vorsprung

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

And the vaccine is only best guess what Bug it's gonna be this year. May not be worth a damn to ya.

Its gonna cost you time, money, possible few sick days with the shivers, sweating, a temp, soreness and it is only around 75% effective or something even if they pick the right strains to put in it.

Go and eat an orange.

It's a public health thing. Flu vaccination aimed at the appropriate groups (those with chronic illnesses, healthcare workers and pregnant women) has been shown to reduce mortality and morbidity from flu in those same groups.

You are right, it's not 100% but nothing in medicine is, I think the figure for this year is an estimated 70-90% effectiveness. The vaccine contains inactivated virus so it shouldn't cause symptoms of flu ( that's as far as my limited understanding of vaccinations goes).

echo beach

Rucking_Fetard wrote: »

And the vaccine is only best guess what Bug it's gonna be this year. May not be worth a damn to ya.

You are right. It might not be worth a damn to you. On the other hand if you are healthy to start worth it might save you having to take a week off work; If you have an existing illness it might save you a spell in hospital; if you or somebody close to you is quite ill it might save a life.
Nothing in life is certain. The choice is yours.

exgp

Could not have put it better.

Graces7

Vorsprung wrote: »

It's a public health thing. Flu vaccination aimed at the appropriate groups (those with chronic illnesses, healthcare workers and pregnant women) has been shown to reduce mortality and morbidity from flu in those same groups.

You are right, it's not 100% but nothing in medicine is, I think the figure for this year is an estimated 70-90% effectiveness. The vaccine contains inactivated virus so it shouldn't cause symptoms of flu ( that's as far as my limited understanding of vaccinations goes).

We understand it is live vaccine; I have a compromised immune system and there is no way I would accept any vaccination and that is on consultant advice.

A Little Baby Elephant

Graces7 wrote: »

We understand it is live vaccine; I have a compromised immune system and there is no way I would accept any vaccination and that is on consultant advice.

No, it's inactive.

It does lay up a good few people, it seems to me anyway, I've no figures.

I know of quite a few that won't be getting it again after coming down with a fair dose from it.

Graces7

A Little Baby Elephant wrote: »

No, it's inactive.

It does lay up a good few people, it seems to me anyway, I've no figures.

I know of quite a few that won't be getting it again after coming down with a fair dose from it.

Thanks.. it is the militancy I find hard. I got dropped from a drs list for refusing it last year.

But how can it cause illness if it is inactive.

gctest50

A Little Baby Elephant wrote: »

No, it's inactive.
................

no , it's attennuated - alive but not as "powerful"

this "not so powerful" version can spread to other people and help them, it can also mutate too

maybe someone that has proper knowledge of it can explain it better

echo beach

gctest50 wrote: »

no , it's attennuated - alive but not as "powerful"

That is correct. It is 'powerful' enough to stimulate your own immune system to produce antibodies. If you are then exposed to the same flu virus you have been vaccinated against these antibodies will recognise it and rapidly multiply to fight it and prevent you getting the flu. If the virus is slightly different the antibodies will still have some effect so you get a much milder dose but if the virus is very different you won't have any protection against it. It doesn't give any protection against the common cold that many confuse with flu and that you may well pick up around the same time you get the injection.
However the vaccination isn't 'powerful' enough to give you the flu, if that makes sense.

WildRosie

Graces7 wrote: »

We understand it is live vaccine; I have a compromised immune system and there is no way I would accept any vaccination and that is on consultant advice.

My dad is having chemo and he had it and the pneumococcal one also, he was grand. This was on the consultant oncologists advice. Much better than getting the flu which could kill him.

Graces7

echo beach wrote: »

That is correct. It is 'powerful' enough to stimulate your own immune system to produce antibodies. If you are then exposed to the same flu virus you have been vaccinated against these antibodies will recognise it and rapidly multiply to fight it and prevent you getting the flu. If the virus is slightly different the antibodies will still have some effect so you get a much milder dose but if the virus is very different you won't have any protection against it. It doesn't give any protection against the common cold that many confuse with flu and that you may well pick up around the same time you get the injection.
However the vaccination isn't 'powerful' enough to give you the flu, if that makes sense.

Ok I get it but still will follow advice not with a compromised immune system.
As others have said there is risk and we know the difference between a cold and flu
Will wear a mask this year...caught flu last year at a First Communion in late May and since then avoid Sunday mass and anywhere crowded. Over 70 now.

Graces7

WildRosie wrote: »

My dad is having chemo and he had it and the pneumococcal one also, he was grand. This was on the consultant oncologists advice. Much better than getting the flu which could kill him.

Grand so but different cases and different conditions apply.

exgp

Graces7 wrote: »

Ok I get it but still will follow advice not with a compromised immune system.
As others have said there is risk and we know the difference between a cold and flu
Will wear a mask this year...caught flu last year at a First Communion in late May and since then avoid Sunday mass and anywhere crowded. Over 70 now.

There used to be a simple test to distinguish between the cold and the Flu, the five pound note test. If you have a cold and saw a fiver floating past on a gentle breeze, you would bend down and pick it up. With the Flu you wouldn't have the energy to do it. There has been talk recently that researchers are close to developing a vaccine that will cover all Flu strains and give life long immunity.

WildRosie

Graces7 wrote: »

Grand so but different cases and different conditions apply.

And I was just illustrating that immunosuppression is not an absolute barrier to vaccination and vaccines are often given to immunosuppressed patients with HIV, Lupus, Cancer, organ and stem cell transplantation and patients undergoing dialysis. Of course there will be patients with immunosuppression that are not suitable, but it's not an absolute contraindication in itself.

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2809%2970175-6/fulltext
http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jir/2006/948486/abs/

Graces7

[OK,, I ran this thread past a very knowledgable medic last night and the work flim flam was used re the explanations above....

Opinions and ideas will always vary... I have been advised NO and that is my way forward.

Interesting article too..

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/almost-2000-have-adverse-reactions-to-flu-vaccine-jabs-30140296.html

Always think before saying yes....

angeldelight

Graces7 wrote: »

[OK,, I ran this thread past a very knowledgable medic last night and the work flim flam was used re the explanations above....

Opinions and ideas will always vary... I have been advised NO and that is my way forward.

Interesting article too..

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/almost-2000-have-adverse-reactions-to-flu-vaccine-jabs-30140296.html

Always think before saying yes....

For the majority of people, catching the flu is far more dangerous than any minor side effects they may suffer from the vaccine.

Love how an article in the Indo counts as a reputable source :rolleyes:

2000 people suffered reactions over 5 years, and >700,000 doses were administered in one year, meaning those 2000 people were an incredibly tiny minority of people

A Neurotic

Graces7 wrote: »

[OK,, I ran this thread past a very knowledgable medic last night and the work flim flam was used re the explanations above....

Opinions and ideas will always vary... I have been advised NO and that is my way forward.

Interesting article too..

http://www.independent.ie/lifestyle/health/almost-2000-have-adverse-reactions-to-flu-vaccine-jabs-30140296.html

Always think before saying yes....

Does anyone else find this to be a strangely scaremongering headline from the Independent?

That's 2,000 adverse reactions in the past 5 years. The article also states that over 700,000 vaccines were given in a single year 2012-2013. If we assume that roughly the same amount are administered every year that gives us 2,000 adverse reactions out of 350,000 vaccine administrations, a rate of around 0.6%.

Out of that 0.6%, the majority are non-serious (less than 10% of this group were treated in hospital, and less again were admitted).

Hope I haven't got my maths wrong.

The headline could more usefully state "Over 99% suffer no adverse effects from flu vaccine" or something.

angeldelight

A Neurotic wrote: »

Does anyone else find this to be a strangely scaremongering headline from the Independent?

Not that strange :pac:

INPUT INNPUT

Pretzill wrote: »

And how exactly would an orange protect you? It's influenza not a common cold - potentially deadly to people with compromised immune systems or of a certain age and yet you spout this misleading and useless advice.

Wash your hands.

Vorsprung wrote: »

It's a public health thing. Flu vaccination aimed at the appropriate groups (those with chronic illnesses, healthcare workers and pregnant women) has been shown to reduce mortality and morbidity from flu in those same groups.

You are right, it's not 100% but nothing in medicine is, I think the figure for this year is an estimated 70-90% effectiveness. The vaccine contains inactivated virus so it shouldn't cause symptoms of flu ( that's as far as my limited understanding of vaccinations goes).

2011 paper has it at 59%.

Plus they've said now that their guess was wrong on what virus would be the predominant one for this year so less than 50% now.

Vorsprung

INPUT INNPUT wrote: »

Wash your hands.

2011 paper has it at 59%.

Plus they've said now that their guess was wrong on what virus would be the predominant one for this year so less than 50% now.

Got that figure from a HPSC publication. Do you have a link to the statement about this season's prevalant strains being different to those they predicted?

exgp

There are two types of Flu. One mutates every one year and is usually not particularly serious unless you are elderly, very young or have respiratory problems. These are named after the regions in which they first appear, eg Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu etc. it is these ones, as soon as they appear, that the pharmaceutical companies make vaccines for and are very valuable for at risk groups. The more dangerous Flu is the "thirty year flu." This is the Flu which killed far more people in 1918 than died in the WW1. It came back in 1952 and killed hundreds in the UK. Another outbreak of this type of Flu is overdue. There was an outbreak of it in the US twenty odd years ago which was killing young marines in training camps over there. It was expected to spread to Europe but there was a period of cold weather where it didn't rise above zero, by day or night, for about a month which killed that particular virus off. The worst weather for flu in Ireland is mild and damp; the frosty weather kills it.

Streets_of Rage 2 Come_On

Vorsprung wrote: »

Got that figure from a HPSC publication. Do you have a link to the statement about this season's prevalant strains being different to those they predicted?

Here's two,

theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/12/CDC-Says-Flu-Mutated-Vaccine-Shots-Inneffective/383453/

scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/12/05/no-the-cdc-did-not-just-apologize-and-admit-that-this-years-flu-vaccine-doesnt-work/

exgp wrote: »

There are two types of Flu. One mutates every one year and is usually not particularly serious unless you are elderly, very young or have respiratory problems. These are named after the regions in which they first appear, eg Hong Kong Flu, Asian Flu etc. it is these ones, as soon as they appear, that the pharmaceutical companies make vaccines for and are very valuable for at risk groups. The more dangerous Flu is the "thirty year flu." This is the Flu which killed far more people in 1918 than died in the WW1. It came back in 1952 and killed hundreds in the UK. Another outbreak of this type of Flu is overdue. There was an outbreak of it in the US twenty odd years ago which was killing young marines in training camps over there. It was expected to spread to Europe but there was a period of cold weather where it didn't rise above zero, by day or night, for about a month which killed that particular virus off. The worst weather for flu in Ireland is mild and damp; the frosty weather kills it.

They weren't the same Bug exgp, both were H1N1 but different types. If you caught the 1918 Bug now you'd probably only get a runny nose, we've near total immunity from it now. It's full genome was mapped back in 2005 incidentally.

Their was a Censor put on Newspapers during the War on bad news so as to keep up Moral, censor didn't exist in Spain so they're reporting of the Sickness gave it it's name but it's thought it originated in the US and the Troops sent in around the World.


A scientist in the US, to alot of anger from his peers, has engineered a variant of the 2009 swine flu (H5N1) to fully evade the body's immume system.

Here's a good read on it,

popularmechanics.com/science/health/breakthroughs/the-man-who-could-destroy-the-world-breakthrough-awards-2014

independent.co.uk/news/science/exclusive-controversial-us-scientist-creates-deadly-new-flu-strain-for-pandemic-research-9577088.html


Obama has at the minute put a stop on all similar work until a review is carried out.

madison.com/news/local/health_med_fit/yoshihiro-kawaoka-s-controversial-flu-research-at-uw-madison-on/article_5af732af-f4e4-5966-843b-91da7d9e4456.html

npr.org/blogs/health/2014/10/17/357010964/u-s-to-temporarily-halt-funding-for-controversial-virus-research

I came across a new study the other day...can't find it now on,(?) it was about whether the planet could fix itself (Climate, Extinction in Animals etc) if their was a huge drop in the Human Pop. Study said no. To late.

The ould fracking boom, gas price drop has the 'mericans buying SUVs again already

bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-03/nissan-boosts-october-u-s-deliveries-on-rogue-suv-versa.html


The Conspiracy nut in me wonders if the Virus had/has a purpose in mind.

Streets_of Rage 2 Come_On

H1N1 not H5N1 above^^, I can't edit for some reason.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_A_virus_subtype_H1N1

echo beach

Just in case you didn't know that the flu can kill.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/report-reveals-36-women-died-from-flu-in-3-years

drzhivago

Vorsprung wrote: »

It's a public health thing. Flu vaccination aimed at the appropriate groups (those with chronic illnesses, healthcare workers and pregnant women) has been shown to reduce mortality and morbidity from flu in those same groups.

You are right, it's not 100% but nothing in medicine is, I think the figure for this year is an estimated 70-90% effectiveness. The vaccine contains inactivated virus so it shouldn't cause symptoms of flu ( that's as far as my limited understanding of vaccinations goes).

Sorry Vorsprung old boy but death in my view is 100% certain for all of us in medicine and as far as I know untreatable

drzhivago

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks.. it is the militancy I find hard. I got dropped from a drs list for refusing it last year.

But how can it cause illness if it is inactive.

doesn't cause illness per se but causes an immune response to the vaccine which boosts your immunity to the particular disease

locum-motion

drzhivago wrote: »

Sorry Vorsprung old boy but death in my view is 100% certain for all of us in medicine and as far as I know untreatable

Life is a fatal disease, Zhiv!

drzhivago

locum-motion wrote: »

Life is a fatal disease, Zhiv!

I am going to invent a pill to cure that fatality, make myself millions and not take it myself then watch as the world consumes itself- that was an episode/series of one of those dr who offshoots a few years ago the one with Captain Jack in it, can't remember the name

Vorsprung

locum-motion wrote: »

Life is a fatal disease, Zhiv!

You'll put us out of business with that kind of talk!

locum-motion

Vorsprung wrote: »

You'll put us out of business with that kind of talk!

Careful now; you're giving ammo too the conspiracy theorists who think medics and BigPharma are in league to keep the world sick!

Kurtosis

locum-motion wrote: »

Life is a fatal disease, Zhiv!

Not only that, it's a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% mortality rate!

INPUT INNPUT

CDC declares it's annual flu epidemic in US. Vaccine my arse.

abcnews.go.com/Health/15-children-dead-cdc-declares-flu-epidemic/story?id=27895739

FF7 7777

Why the Flu Vaccine Doesn't Always Work

gizmodo.com/why-the-flu-vaccine-doesnt-always-work-1677122912

gctest50

FF7 7777 wrote: »

Why the Flu Vaccine Doesn't Always Work

gizmodo.com/why-the-flu-vaccine-doesnt-always-work-1677122912

Natural immunities master race reporting in. Enjoy your mind control nano bots.

Graces7

angeldelight wrote: »

For the majority of people, catching the flu is far more dangerous than any minor side effects they may suffer from the vaccine.

Love how an article in the Indo counts as a reputable source :rolleyes:

2000 people suffered reactions over 5 years, and >700,000 doses were administered in one year, meaning those 2000 people were an incredibly tiny minority of people

An M.E relapse is not a " minor side effect" and minority stops having any real meaning if you are affected

Graces7

drzhivago wrote: »

doesn't cause illness per se but causes an immune response to the vaccine which boosts your immunity to the particular disease

which for many with M.E will trigger a relapse.. no thank you!

SleepDoc

Graces7 wrote: »

An M.E relapse is not a " minor side effect" and minority stops having any real meaning if you are affected

Indeed. And if you get a concurrent dose of fibromyalgia you might end up in intensive care.