Fare Evasion. Man gets 1k fine in the UK. Are penaltys justified?

SkyBlueClouds

Daily Mail

Passenger 'almost faints' after being handed £1,000 bill for boarding wrong train for journey from Birmingham to London

Man was travelling with 38 friends when mistake was spotted by inspectors

Meant to have boarded London Midlands service, but took faster Virgin train

They were forced to buy new tickets for the entire journey or face large fine

I agree some sort of penalty needs to be applied for fare evasion (ACTUAL deliberate evasion), but this is just taking the mickey IMO. The threat of a fine in addition to the new tickets seems disproportionate.

As the current fixed penalty's apply, do you think €50-100 for accidental/intentional fare evasion in Ireland is appropriate? Or is it a fruitless exercise when resources used to pay for Transport Revenue Inspectors could be better used elsewhere?

Skylinehead

You didn't read your own article clearly. They had to buy new tickets or face the fine.

AnonoBoy

Not one of the 38 or so of them noticed it was the wrong train?

I'd love if it was the Optician's Association of England day out.

foggy_lad

Read the article and the journey cost £1000 more for all 38 people travelling in the group NOT £1000 each as the thread title and article implies.

Iwasfrozen

I don't buy that 38 people boarded the wrong train.

wicklowstevo

as one of the comments below points out . 27 pounds each !
hardly that crazy

also your reading the daily mail :-( so ......... you know

The Backwards Man

As if the Daily Mail isn't sensationalist enough, you've gone and done a whole Kay Burley on it OP

foggy_lad

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Not one of the 38 or so of them noticed it was the wrong train?

I'd love if it was the Optician's Association of England day out.

They possibly thought they could use the train that left first or wanted to get the faster service and hoped to not get caught? either way £1000/38 is not a huge amount. Works out about £26.16 each

cml387

Both trains were going to London.
They boarded a Virgin train, for which they had no valid ticket.
They should have boarded a Midland Regional train.

I can see how they'd be mistaken. And since we have no such thin as privatised railways in Ireland, it might catch you out as well.

KungPao

They should be hung...the lot of them.

WoollyRedHat

Yes, if the games goes past the traditional extra time given and remains in a deadlock then not only are they justified, but absolutely neccesary to avoid a long, drawn out affair. Now for something completely unrelated, is there such a thing as "too much jam"?

anothernight

cml387 wrote: »

I can see how they'd be mistaken.

Every time I've been on that route, there were reminder messages about the London Midland tickets. Not that easy a mistake to make.

Young Blood

Look at it this way, if a train shows up late or is cancelled can you issue the driver a fine?

Do you get my point?

GSF

Young Blood wrote: »

Look at it this way, if a train shows up late or is cancelled can you issue the driver a fine?

Do you get my point?

Yeah you get compensated. I've got my fare back plus additional costs due to trains in the UK being late

Young Blood

GSF wrote: »

Yeah you get compensated. I've got my fare back plus additional costs due to trains in the UK being late

Hmm...compensation eh?

keithclancy

GSF wrote: »

Yeah you get compensated. I've got my fare back plus additional costs due to trains in the UK being late

You do in your hole.

You get the maximum fare refunded in the form of vouchers if its delayed by over 2 hours with Virgin Rail, Scotrail its 1 hour I think.

I don't know any that give more than 100% in the form of money.

coolemon

Fines should be proportionate to a persons income, like they have in Finland.

conorh91

Young Blood wrote: »

Look at it this way, if a train shows up late or is cancelled can you issue the driver a fine?

Do you get my point?

That seems like a terrible point tbf.

The OP is suggesting that fines should be proportionate.

Seems like a reasonable statement. The whole aim of fixed penalty notices/ penalty points/ on-the-spot fines and standard charges is that they avoid the need for expensive litigation and adversarial justice.

If a fine amounts to €1000, it's possibly in the interests of the person receiving the fine to challenge it in court, especially a district court, where the maximum fines are not a whole lot bigger.

SkyBlueClouds

foggy_lad wrote: »

Read the article and the journey cost £1000 more for all 38 people travelling in the group NOT £1000 each as the thread title and article implies.

Fair enough. It's still a large fine though, albeit a collective one. Seems disproportionate imo.

Edit: Sum of £1k + threat of fine*

Young Blood

conorh91 wrote: »

That seems like a terrible point tbf.

The OP is suggesting that fines should be proportionate.

Seems like a reasonable statement. The whole aim of fixed penalty notices/ penalty points/ on-the-spot fines and standard charges is that they avoid the need for expensive litigation and adversarial justice.

If a fine amounts to €1000, it's possibly in the interests of the person receiving the fine to challenge it in court, especially a district court, where the maximum fines are not a whole lot bigger.

How about not paying the fine at all? With the amount of trains that have showed up late or have been cancelled, I think its proportionate for me at least to not pay at all.

keithclancy

coolemon wrote: »

Fines should be proportionate to a persons income, like they have in Finland.

Rich mofo won't be taking the train.

Mickey H

The Backwards Man wrote: »

As if the Daily Mail isn't sensationalist enough, you've gone and done a whole Kay Burley on it OP

Kay Burley - HOT!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

SkyBlueClouds

Mickey H wrote: »

Kay Burley - HOT!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

She's not really that endearing, in all fairness

conorh91

Young Blood wrote: »

How about not paying the fine at all? With the amount of trains that have showed up late or have been cancelled, I think its proportionate for me at least to not pay at all.

I've no idea what you're attempting to say here. Nobody has suggested this at all.

If you're not happy with a service, use an alternative.

If a passenger is to be fined, a fine should be proportionate.

Skylinehead

SkyBlueClouds wrote: »

Fair enough. It's still a large fine though, albeit a collective one. Seems disproportionate imo.

It's not a fine. They had to pay £1000 for 38 peoples train tickets - £26 each. Hardly unreasonable.

Mickey H

SkyBlueClouds wrote: »

She's not really that endearing, in all fairness

Well ya, but there's alot to be said for the Mute button.

0byme75341jo28

coolemon wrote: »

Fines should be proportionate to a persons income, like they have in Finland.

Why?

SkyBlueClouds

keithclancy wrote: »

You do in your hole.

You get the maximum fare refunded in the form of vouchers if its delayed by over 2 hours with Virgin Rail, Scotrail its 1 hour I think.

I don't know any that give more than 100% in the form of money.

I'm fairly sure with TFL run services in London some fares on Oyster are credited directly back onto your card in the event of delays on the tube etc. Depends on the transport operator which can be annoying. Should be one policy for all.

EyeSight

foggy_lad wrote: »

They possibly thought they could use the train that left first or wanted to get the faster service and hoped to not get caught? either way £1000/38 is not a huge amount. Works out about £26.16 each

But when he heard about the 27 pound fine he "almost fainted" :rolleyes:

Why is this news?

foggy_lad

SkyBlueClouds wrote: »

Fair enough. It's still a large fine though, albeit a collective one. Seems disproportionate imo.

Edit: Sum of £1k + threat of fine*

It was not a fine though, they got onto a train which they did not have tickets for. That was their own fault for being either collectively stupid or collectively trying to pull a fast one and get on the faster express train while only paying for the stopping service!

When I buy a JJ Kavanagh bus ticket for a journey Carlow to Dublin I can't expect to use that ticket on a Bus Éireann service even though the start and finish points are the same.

mickydoomsux

EyeSight wrote: »

But when he heard about the 27 pound fine he "almost fainted" :rolleyes:

Why is this news?

Because the companies running public transport are always seen as terrible people by idiots.