Should I declare new occupants in my apartment?

burkey2k0

HI,

I've been living in the same apartment for almost three years. It's in a complex where the landlord for it and most of the other apartments was a certain property management company (let's call it Landlord A). This week the complex changed ownership and we've been informed that the new landlord is now a different property management company (Landlord . Landlord B has issued letters to every apartment informing them of their new ownership and included a document to fill out specifying tenants and occupants currently in the apartment that we have to return.

Now when I moved in three years ago, it was myself and two friends, and all three of us were tenants on the lease. Over the past year the other two moved out separately outside of Dublin, and were replaced by new people. This was the easiest option at the time as it saved us having to revise the lease (it was originally a 1 year lease but we haven't officially renewed since) and also, since rents had risen in Dublin over that time, the rooms were advertised and accepted at a higher rent than what we originally would have been paying. Signing on to the lease was offered to the two new occupants when they moved in but they preferred not too. As far as I'm concerned I pay less rent as I am the only one liable for the tenancy, and I take care of all landlord related issues. Everyone was happy.

This now leaves me in a situation where if Landlord B compares the occupants on our original lease to the current occupants, he'll see I'm the only original tenant, with two unknown occupants.

Does this leave me in a bit of a precarious position? If I declare the new occupants would they simply ask me to sign a new lease? This isn't ideal for me, as we'd then all be entitled to pay the same rent and I don't know how they would feel knowing they were paying €50 each more than I was paying a month. And for them as they did not want to be tied down by a lease.

Or is there a possibility of them wanting to terminate the tenancy knowing there are two undeclared occupants in the apartment?

My third option is to lie and just put my name plus the original two other tenants on the form. They are both good friends of mine who I would ask first before doing this.

Any feedback you guys have is appreciated!

GerardKeating

burkey2k0 wrote: »

HI,

I've been living in the same apartment for almost three years. It's in a complex where the landlord for it and most of the other apartments was a certain property management company (let's call it Landlord A). This week the complex changed ownership and we've been informed that the new landlord is now a different property management company (Landlord . Landlord B has issued letters to every apartment informing them of their new ownership and included a document to fill out specifying tenants and occupants currently in the apartment that we have to return.

Now when I moved in three years ago, it was myself and two friends, and all three of us were tenants on the lease. Over the past year the other two moved out separately outside of Dublin, and were replaced by new people. This was the easiest option at the time as it saved us having to revise the lease (it was originally a 1 year lease but we haven't officially renewed since) and also, since rents had risen in Dublin over that time, the rooms were advertised and accepted at a higher rent than what we originally would have been paying. Signing on to the lease was offered to the two new occupants when they moved in but they preferred not too. As far as I'm concerned I pay less rent as I am the only one liable for the tenancy, and I take care of all landlord related issues. Everyone was happy.

This now leaves me in a situation where if Landlord B compares the occupants on our original lease to the current occupants, he'll see I'm the only original tenant, with two unknown occupants.

Does this leave me in a bit of a precarious position? If I declare the new occupants would they simply ask me to sign a new lease? This isn't ideal for me, as we'd then all be entitled to pay the same rent and I don't know how they would feel knowing they were paying €50 each more than I was paying a month. And for them as they did not want to be tied down by a lease.

Or is there a possibility of them wanting to terminate the tenancy knowing there are two undeclared occupants in the apartment?

My third option is to lie and just put my name plus the original two other tenants on the form. They are both good friends of mine who I would ask first before doing this.

Any feedback you guys have is appreciated!

You are/were entitled to replace tenants during the course of the lease, and I am sure you properly and correctly informed LandLord A of this.

Hopefully Landlord A kept a record of this change, and inform the new Landlord, but if he did not, you cannot really be blamed for this.

ukoda

well lets not crucify him just yet, he did say that he offered to put them on the lease, if they know hes paying less rent in exchnage for doing something (i.e. looking after "landlordy" stuff), then its not an issue. they accepted this.

endacl

ukoda wrote: »

well lets not crucify him just yet, he did say that he offered to put them on the lease, if they know hes paying less rent in exchnage for doing something, then its not an issue. they accepted this.

True. And as the sole named occupant, he has all of the responsibility.

ukoda

Also, to answer your question OP - if the new owner is asking for an updated tenants list - they probably know that the one they have isnt up to date, i doubt they will care too much, but yes its likely they will want a new lease with all occupants named

foggy_lad

endacl wrote: »

True. And as the sole named occupant, he has all of the responsibility.

He also holds all the Cards as the "tenants" are not tenants in the strict sense and appear to be licencees due to living with their Landlord who have very few rights.

ukoda

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Lads, read the post.

He is not the sole name on the lease, his two original mates are.

From reading it, All 3 original teants were named on it, now as the Op is the only renaming person on the lease, he will be soley responsible.

burkey2k0

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I would be 99.99% sure that sub letting would breach his lease contract. Its a rotten thing to do. Worse than ticket touting!

Rent is still way below market rates because they're really nice apartments in not a very sought after area. We talk about it all the time how lucky we are not to be paying stupid rents. One of the housemates moved in from the city centre because of stupid rent she was paying. She's paying less rent now, for a bigger/nicer apartment

They are paying more than me because they have the freedom to walk away tomorrow as they aren't on a lease. As I said, this was discussed with each one before they even moved in. explanation would have gone like so:
I told them that The lease is in my name and I pay the landlord. If they want to sign a lease I would contact the landlord and ask for them to be added.

Both of them said they would prefer not to be on a lease. So, Yer Aul One, if you were them and you expected to pay the same rent as the person on the lease, you would indeed be quite naive. Thanks for the feedback.

Grandpa Hassan

ukoda wrote: »

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Lads, read the post.

He is not the sole name on the lease, his two original mates are.

From reading it, All 3 original teants were named on it, now as the Op is the only renaming person on the lease, he will be soley responsible.

The lease is still in place, and all 3 are liable, even if 2 are no longer living there. Whether the LL would try to track down these 2 people if the current occupant did not pay the rent is another question. But the LL is within his rights to go after them

ukoda

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

ukoda wrote: »

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Lads, read the post.

He is not the sole name on the lease, his two original mates are.

The lease is still in place, and all 3 are liable, even if 2 are no longer living there. Whether the LL would try to track down these 2 people if the current occupant did not pay the rent is another question. But the LL is within his rights to go after them

fair point, in legal terms all 3 are liable, but in practical terms, only the OP is

Mrs OBumble

OP, my advise is just to write yourself down as the tenant and the others as occupiers. If company B asks about it, just say that company A said it was OK to do it like you've done.

NB I've done something very similar before - at one point, it's perfectly justified as you are bearing the risk of having to pay the whole rent if one of the others leaves.

miezekatze

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, my advise is just to write yourself down as the tenant and the others as occupiers. If company B asks about it, just say that company A said it was OK to do it like you've done.

NB I've done something very similar before - at one point, it's perfectly justified as you are bearing the risk of having to pay the whole rent if one of the others leaves.

I'd agree with this. My own experience is that a lot of information gets lost when changes like this happen. It happened to me once and it seemed like no information at all was passed on from the old company to the new one.

burkey2k0

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP, my advise is just to write yourself down as the tenant and the others as occupiers. If company B asks about it, just say that company A said it was OK to do it like you've done.

NB I've done something very similar before - at one point, it's perfectly justified as you are bearing the risk of having to pay the whole rent if one of the others leaves.

Thanks Mrs OBumble. This is exactly what I'm leaning towards.

miezekatze wrote: »

I'd agree with this. My own experience is that a lot of information gets lost when changes like this happen. It happened to me once and it seemed like no information at all was passed on from the old company to the new one.

What I was thinking aswell miezekatze.

burkey2k0

Yer Aul One wrote: »

Mate, you said it yourself that you didnt know how they would feel when they found out that they were paying 50 each more than you!

Splitting the rent fairly does seem like a non-ideal situation alright...for you

Well since you seem to assume the very worst of me in this situation, I'll give you even more reason:

Every dish, plate, cup, glass, pot, pan, knife fork, in the apartment in the apartment was bought by myself and the other two original tenants, as the apartments don't come fully furnished.
TV in the living area is mine and their for everyone's use.
Because I take time out of my day/work to arrange and come home help move their beds/furniture with the landlord when they buy new stuff.
Buy new washers/gaskets for leaky taps when needs be and fix them myself.
Buy any bulbs in common areas that need replacing (there being about 18 of these in common areas alone).

The reason I mentioned I don't know how they would feel is purely in human terms, it's because it's turning an implicit arrangement between us into an explicit one.

There is not one sensible person on the planet who thinks an equal rent share is fair in this arrangement. But you do. And that's fine.

Victor

burkey2k0 wrote: »

If I declare the new occupants would they simply ask me to sign a new lease?

They may ask this anyway, given that a new company owns hte building.

This isn't ideal for me, as we'd then all be entitled to pay the same rent

Why do you say this? It is rare that all occupants pay an identical rent.

and I don't know how they would feel knowing they were paying €50 each more than I was paying a month. And for them as they did not want to be tied down by a lease.

Are the rooms identical?

Or is there a possibility of them wanting to terminate the tenancy knowing there are two undeclared occupants in the apartment?

I can't imagine them knowing who lives there.