2014 Appeals

SeamusFX

A total of 5,447 candidates appealed results this year, challenging 9,267 grades and 1,673 marks were improved on the appeals.

Higher level English saw the largest number of appeals. 1,596 candidates lodged an appeal with the State Examinations Commission this year with 200 of those upgraded.

So 1,673 out of 9,267 marks were improved so 18% of the grades queried were improved, same as last year. But for Higher level English which saw the largest number of appeals, only 200 grades were upgraded out of 1,596 appeals for only a 12.5% improvement.

I would assume the exam that has the most appeals probably had the most errors and therefore should have the highest improvement rate, but obviously the CAO took the opposite approach and the improvement rate for English this year was significantly lower than average.

Shane15

I passed maths in the recheck so very happy.

randylonghorn

SeamusFX wrote: »

I would assume the exam that has the most appeals probably had the most errors and therefore should have the highest improvement rate, but obviously the CAO took the opposite approach and the improvement rate for English this year was significantly lower than average.

Firstly, it's nothing to do with the CAO, the SEC run the exams.

Secondly, why would you assume that the subject with the most appeals had the most errors? There's no logical basis whatsoever for that assumption.

The most likely reason that English had the most appeals is that many people view it as a "subjective" subject when it comes to marking (and there is an element of truth in that, but nowhere near as much as people like to think) and so they would be inclined to chance their arms and appeal on the basis that they might get a "nicer" examiner this time.

That's also the most likely reason why the percentage of upgrades in English "was significantly lower than average" ... there was no real basis for the appeal, and the papers had been marked correctly the first time!

SeamusFX

randylonghorn wrote: »

Firstly, it's nothing to do with the CAO, the SEC run the exams.

Secondly, why would you assume that the subject with the most appeals had the most errors? There's no logical basis whatsoever for that assumption.

The most likely reason that English had the most appeals is that many people view it as a "subjective" subject when it comes to marking (and there is an element of truth in that, but nowhere near as much as people like to think) and so they would be inclined to chance their arms and appeal on the basis that they might get a "nicer" examiner this time.

That's also the most likely reason why the percentage of upgrades in English "was significantly lower than average" ... there was no real basis for the appeal, and the papers had been marked correctly the first time!

Randy, who said anything about the CAO? Yes, the SEC run the exams and they DO have quotas!

Secondly, it is completely logical to assume that the subject with the most appeals has the most errors! It costs money to appeal, so people only appeal the subjects they feel were marked wrong. If a subject has an excessive number of appeals relative to the other subjects and relative to the same subject other years, then something is wrong. Yes, parts of the English exam can be subjective, but that can also be said about a lot of other subjects such as History, French and any other subject that has essay type answers. Also, your theory doesn't explain why English had a significantly higher rate of appeals this year than other years. All that aside, subjective or not, it would only seem logical that all subjects should have about the same improvement rate, but that wasn't the case for English this year. The only place I agree with you is, maybe the SEC didn't bother upgrading most of the essay questions, since they figured they could get away with it do because of the subjectiveness. If you can't see the logic, maybe you don't like logic and are too busy answering subjective questions.

randylonghorn

SeamusFX wrote: »

Randy, who said anything about the CAO?

You did. Read your own post.

SeamusFX wrote: »

I would assume the exam that has the most appeals probably had the most errors and therefore should have the highest improvement rate, but obviously the CAO took the opposite approach and the improvement rate for English this year was significantly lower than average.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Secondly, it is completely logical to assume that the subject with the most appeals has the most errors! It costs money to appeal, so people only appeal the subjects they feel were marked wrong.

Nope, in my experience people appeal the subjects they think they might have a chance of going up in / they believe themselves they should have got a better mark in, regardless of whether they can find any evidence of them being marked incorrectly or not.

Many appeal without even viewing the papers.

Many more appeal after viewing the papers on their own or with a doting parent, rather than (a) getting an experienced examiner to view them with them and (b) actually heeding their advice.

SeamusFX wrote: »

If a subject has an excessive number of appeals relative to the other subjects and relative to the same subject other years, then something is wrong.

English traditionally has a high number of appeals; whether that was true in the last year or so, I couldn't tell you, I wasn't watching that closely, but it is a subject people will take a chance on appealing much more quickly than say the sciences, maths, etc.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Yes, parts of the English exam can be subjective, but that can also be said about a lot of other subjects such as History, French and any other subject that has essay type answers.

If you read my post properly, my point was that English isn't actually as subjective as students tend to think it is ... but many students do tend to think it is, I'm been arguing the point with them on this forum for years now.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Also, your theory doesn't explain why English had a significantly higher rate of appeals this year than other years.

Than what other years? Source?

SeamusFX wrote: »

All that aside, subjective or not, it would only seem logical that all subjects should have about the same improvement rate, but that wasn't the case for English this year.

Not if students are more inclined to chance their arm on a particular subject than on others.

SeamusFX wrote: »

If you can't see the logic, maybe you don't like logic and are too busy answering subjective questions.

Well, isn't that a nice little dismissive dig? Even though it's really just wordplay with nothing of substance to back it up.

My logic is based on my experience ...

... of being a mod on this forum for several years now, and reading the comments of students over the years around the time when they are deciding to appeal;

... interaction with students at LC and in first year of university in the course of my work, and listening to their comments on the subject;

... having marked English myself in the past.

On what experience are you basing your logic?

SeamusFX

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I know for a fact about several papers that where highly experienced English teachers who also have significant experience marking English papers recommended students to appeal, not just because of possible subjectiveness, but because of actual errors where the questions were clearly answered correctly, only to find the papers didn't go up. Yes, maybe "some" students may see English as an easy try for a few extra points, but please don't generalise, most students are shrewd enough to get professional advice, especially since an appeal isn't free.

I'm sorry, in addition to my experiences, the numbers just don't add up, a 6% difference is statistically significant and it may be more of an opportunity to not allow an upgrade under the guise of subjectiveness, as opposed to people appealing without any rational.

randylonghorn

SeamusFX wrote: »

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I know for a fact about several papers that where highly experienced English teachers who also have significant experience marking English papers recommended students to appeal, not just because of possible subjectiveness, but because of actual errors where the questions were clearly answered correctly, only to find the papers didn't go up.

Then I have no doubt that these highly experienced English teachers with significant marking experience will advise their students to apply to re-view their remarked examination scripts using the application form that accompanies the appeal results. This has to be returned through their school by next Monday, October 13th, btw. In fact, they will probably accompany their students to the viewing in order to be able to highlight any perceived errors.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Yes, maybe "some" students may see English as an easy try for a few extra points, but please don't generalise, most students are shrewd enough to get professional advice, especially since an appeal isn't free.

Yes, many students are shrewd enough to get professional advice, especially as they are constantly advised to do so by the professionals; and, indeed, by users and the mods on forums like this.

Many aren't, and many ignore the advice they are given, and English is a favourite stalking horse for that cohort of students.

And you're right, appeals aren't free; but it's seldom the students who are convinced that OF COURSE they did better in English who are paying for them out of their own pockets, except in the case of the tiny number of mature students who do (or repeat) their LC.

SeamusFX wrote: »

I'm sorry, in addition to my experiences, the numbers just don't add up, a 6% difference is statistically significant and it may be more of an opportunity to not allow an upgrade under the guise of subjectiveness, as opposed to people appealing without any rational.

Care to explain where you're deriving this "6% difference" from?


By the way, speaking of stats, you made this claim earlier:

SeamusFX wrote: »

English had a significantly higher rate of appeals this year than other years.

I asked you to provide a source for that claim:

randylonghorn wrote: »

Than what other years? Source?

You didn't, so I went and looked up the figures myself:

2014

Sitting HL English: 35,122

Appeals: 1,596 (i.e. 4.54 % of total cohort sitting HL English)

Upgrades: 200 ( (i.e. 0.6 % of total cohort sitting HL English)

2013

Sitting HL English: 31,862

Appeals: 1,528 (i.e. 4.79 % of total cohort; so actually, this year had a slightly LOWER rate of appeals in HL English than last year.)

Upgrades: 177 (i.e. 0.6 % of total cohort)

2012

Sitting HL English: 32,965

Appeals: 1,339 (i.e. 4.06 % of total cohort; so ok, slightly lower in 2012 than either 2013 or this year)

Upgrades: 184 (i.e. 0.6 % of total cohort)

2011

Sitting HL English: 32,783

Appeals: 1,706 (i.e. 5.2 % of total cohort; so 2011 was actually the highest of the last 4 years for appeals, though the differentials tbh simply aren't significant in any case)

Upgrades: 218 (i.e. 0.7 % of total cohort)


So, of the last 4 years, far from this year being "significantly higher" in terms of the rate of appeals in HL English, it actually ranks third (or second lowest) of the four.

Shane15

Am I supposed to get my 40 euro back since my grade went up?

randylonghorn

Yes, you will.

Assuming your appeal was processed though your school (the norm), the refund will happen through them as well.

rainbowtrout

SeamusFX wrote: »

Hi Randy,
Sorry, I know for a fact about several papers that where highly experienced English teachers who also have significant experience marking English papers recommended students to appeal, not just because of possible subjectiveness, but because of actual errors where the questions were clearly answered correctly, only to find the papers didn't go up. Yes, maybe "some" students may see English as an easy try for a few extra points, but please don't generalise, most students are shrewd enough to get professional advice, especially since an appeal isn't free.

I'm sorry, in addition to my experiences, the numbers just don't add up, a 6% difference is statistically significant and it may be more of an opportunity to not allow an upgrade under the guise of subjectiveness, as opposed to people appealing without any rational.

I agree with all of what Randy said above. I've been viewing appeals for years and what I notice a lot of the time is that students (and sometimes their teachers) focus on where they lost marks and not where they gained marks. Naturally they are looking for extra marks to get them over the line to the next grade. However sometimes they have been given too many marks in some questions that they didn't deserve, or a question was totalled incorrectly, or in a multiple part question where the best four out of five answers are to be totalled, all five parts are totalled. The student benefits from this. As a result, they send back their paper to get the extra two marks missed in Q2, but fail to notice that they got 8 marks they didn't deserve in Q5 and overall their grade doesn't change.

I always check to see if examiners have awarded extra marks for answers not in the scheme or by accident through addition errors when I am going through a paper so I can see what the net marks will be before advising an appeal. Plenty don't do this, experienced examiners or otherwise.

SeamusFX wrote: »

most students are shrewd enough to get professional advice, especially since an appeal isn't free.

Actually they're not. Again, I've been viewing appeals with students for years, and more students come in on their own or with a family member who wouldn't know one end of a scheme from another. Many students are under the impression that teachers magically know that they want them present at the viewing, but never bother to ask. I was in viewing papers for my two subjects back in August and was accosted by several students that evening asking me to look over papers in other subjects. Now I'm not an expert in Geography, Home Economics or Irish so I can't comment on a lot of what they wrote and what is awarded marks but I can understand the way an examiner has marked a paper, having done it myself or I can interpret the marking scheme, a lot of those students were on their own or had a parent with them who was of no help whatsoever.


There is also an engrained belief in many students that they "should have" got X grade because that's what they believe they are worth and there is no telling them otherwise. There are also a huge number of students who send papers back when they are less than 5 marks off the next grade because they are close and are under the misguided assumption that if they are that close the examiner is bound to find something somewhere to give them marks and bring them up and it just doesn't happen like that.

I watched one student send back a Home Ec paper this year, the Home Ec teacher had been through it with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find a single mark extra. The student was on what would have been 83-84% and was convinced she should have been given an A2. Her appeal came back unchanged from B1. There was no telling her though.

Conaaaa

Anyone kno when jc appeals are back?

rainbowtrout

Conaaaa wrote: »

Anyone kno when jc appeals are back?

Early November I think

SeamusFX

rainbowtrout wrote: »

the Home Ec teacher had been through it with a fine tooth comb and couldn't find a single mark extra.

Hi Trout,

If you're such a highly intelligent experienced teacher, then you should know better than to assume that everyone that appeals the exams are 100% wrong and like the one you know who appealed their Home Ec paper!!

In my case, my teacher didn't need a fine tooth comb to find numerous errors on my paper. Yes, I'm sure many students assume they are smarter than they are, but unfortunately there are also some stupid and/or lazy teachers too!

rainbowtrout

SeamusFX wrote: »

Hi Trout,

If you're such a highly intelligent experienced teacher, then you should know better than to assume that everyone that appeals the exams are 100% wrong and like the one you know who appealed their Home Ec paper!!

In my case, my teacher didn't need a fine tooth comb to find numerous errors on my paper. Yes, I'm sure many students assume they are smarter than they are, but unfortunately there are also some stupid and/or lazy teachers too!

I never said they were 100% wrong. The Home Ec teacher went through it. The Home Ec teacher is an examiner. She told her there were no more marks. So sending it back was telling the Home Ec teacher that she didn't know what she was talking about.

Of course there are errors, I'm talking about the students who find no errors, have it looked over by a teacher who finds no errors and they still send it back hoping for a magical upgrade.

SeamusFX

Hi Trout,

Well I certainly got the feeling that yourself and Randy were painting everyone with the same brush. If you read my previous posts, you would see that my English teacher who is also is an examiner, went through my exam and said there were several marking errors and extremely harsh marks and he highly recommended me to appeal, saying I should go up at least 2 grades, maybe more, but despite that, the grade did not change. What's frustrating is I have always been an A student in English, I received an A1 on my mocs, my teacher said my exam was excellent and could have been an A1 with easier marking and as a minimum should have been a B1, but despite that I received a B3 and it didn't go up on the appeal. I actually don't need the extra points, but to be an A student and get downgraded so far is just insane. Strangely enough, English was always my best subject, but for the LC, it was my lowest score. Since I had no way of getting to Athlone today, I couldn't review the appeal, but I did send in the other appeal. Also since I had the points I needed for my course, my parents told me not to appeal despite the marking errors, so I paid for the appeal myself, knowing the errors were so obvious, I assumed I would get my money back.

When I saw the statistics about English having the highest number of appeals, but the lowest improvement rate, I saw a conspiracy! Maybe I overreacted, but I can honestly tell you, someone messed up when they marked my paper and despite obvious errors by the grader, my appeal was turned down. So hearing supposed expert Markers like yourself and Randy implying all the students that appeal are stupid and misinformed, I certainly do take offence!

rainbowtrout

No conspiracy. Simple statistics. More students take English, Maths and Irish than any other subject for Leaving Cert. The vast majority of appeals are for Higher Level papers. There are a larger proportion of students doing HL English than there are HL Maths or Irish. 67% of students doing English took HL, 27% of students doing Maths did HL. The total numbers doing English and Maths are almost identical.

So there are going to be a higher number of HL English appeals more than any other subject. Further to that, the only one that could realistically rival it (Maths) is a subject that has answers that are right or wrong with no middle ground, so if a student doesn't get the right answer they know they are not going to get the marks for it on appeal.

They will not view English the same way because there is some subjectivity in it, so they send it back.


Two separate examiners have corrected your paper, possibly even an advising examiner too. None of them thought you deserved more than a B3. If there were that many obvious errors then surely it would have been brought up to at least a B2?


Also I'd question your teachers comments. You said your teacher said that if you had an easier marker you'd have got an A1, but it was marked harshly and should have at least got a B1. And then you got a B3. See I just don't believe this. I'm not questioning that your teacher said any of this, but examiners have to stick to the marking schemes and your teacher saying it was worth an A1 and at least a B1 at the least is just a load of crap. It's either worth an A1 or it's not. Subjectivity can affect marks to a certain extent in English but for your English teacher to effectively say they'd give you a grade in the range of B1 - A1 doesn't say much for them being able to call the grade as it saw it at the script viewing.

If your teacher was an experienced examiner and saw that you were given a B3 on the day and thought it deserved an A1, they would say so, they wouldn't be then saying 'I'd give it an A1, but send it back, you should get at least a B1'. They should be questioning why it wasn't an A1 if that's what they thought it deserved.

Also neither of us said students were stupid or misinformed. Please don't put words in my mouth.

SeamusFX

Trout,

You're showing that examiners aren't too bright, if you are even really an examiner, as this is the internet. All my comments were true and my teacher said I deserved an A1 and should have gotten an A1 and a B1 at least. I trust his opinions and my grade from an independent moc exam also reflected that level. If I didn't have the opportunity to view my scripts, I'd be doubting myself, but I did view the script and I was clearly robbed, but you're saying because after the re-check, I didn't get a higher grade, than the examiners must be right. Well if there's one incompetent marker, there could just as easily be two, or maybe the second one was just too lazy to even check, but that in it's self makes him incompetent.

Yes, as you said "They will not view English the same way because there is some subjectivity in it, so they send it back", but doesn't that same attitude also apply to the examiners? Since they know there's some subjectivity in English, maybe they make little effort to even bother re-checking. So, you've given a reasonable explanation as to why English has the largest amount of appeals, but it still doesn't explain why it has the lowest improvement rate, other than your claim that most of the students and their parents think they are smarter than they are and see English as an easy opportunity for improvement and maybe because of that, the Examiners also see English as an easy opportunity to do no work and return the same grade, even when it is clearly wrong!!!!!

Mr Rhode Island Red

Guys, the LC is all ogre now, initial results came out in summer like. Time to move on to something else?

DublinArnie

The English paper is subjected to opinion. There is no 'initial' right or wrong answer, it's the examiner's judgement that sets the grade - and they follow their judgement along with a guideline (marking scheme).

Fact based subjects like maths and sciences are a whole different story.

seavill

Look you have to accept that maybe your teacher was incorrect. You seem more than happy to push the blame onto one examiner, then another and as rainbowtrout said possibly an advising examiner also. So you are saying the whole world is wrong except you and your teacher. Maybe your teacher was wrong instead of these other people.
Examiners are not doing it to try do no work, they get paid to do a job, their job is scrutinized by others above them. They choose to do correcting in July instead of having holidays they are choosing ot do the work.
After one person's opinion was checked it was felt that it was correct, as rainbowtrout said if there were glaringly obvious mistakes your grade would have gone up some marks at least. To not move at all must tell you something. Maybe it is a case as was mentioned before that one of what appeared to be a great mark on a question was actually marked incorrectly and the marks you gained in one part were lost in another question you didn't pay too much attention to.
A mock exam is not something to judge on, these are corrected by college students sometimes that have no idea what a real marking scheme is like, other times they are corrected by teachers who are in the middle of teaching their classes and won't spend the same amount of time on them as they should. How many threads do we read here every year about how bad mocks were corrected and their teacher had to re correct them or they sent them away a 2nd time to get recorrected etc.
Correcting the real thing is a serious business, with lots of checks in place. Even after these checks there are rechecks.

Two if not 3 people have separately corrected your exam and did not feel it deserved to move from a B3 to even a B2 which should tell you something.
As someone said it is a long time ago now, you were unable to view your recheck so there is nothing you can do about it now. You will always believe you were done out of a mark but in reality it will make no difference to your life. You got your points and got your course and that is all that matters now. Your college degree will be what people will be looking at not a B3 in English 4-5 years ago when job hunting, and if a B3 in higher English was your lowest grade you will have plenty to show in interviews etc.
It's something that will eat away at you for a little while longer but only for as long as you let it. As I said nothing can be done about it now, you can blame everyone all you want but it won't change anything now. You are better off enjoying your college life now and concentrate on your term exams coming up rather than worrying about this.

i know you are not going to agree with any of what I said but said I would offer an outsiders opinion to this discussion

randylonghorn

SeamusFX wrote: »

Hi Trout,

If you're such a highly intelligent experienced teacher, then you should know better than to assume that everyone that appeals the exams are 100% wrong and like the one you know who appealed their Home Ec paper!!

She never assumed any such thing.

Please go back and read the previous posts in this thread calmly, and read what was actually said.

SeamusFX wrote: »

In my case, my teacher didn't need a fine tooth comb to find numerous errors on my paper.

Ah, so we're talking about YOUR paper, Seamus. Funnily enough, I suspected as much.

SeamusFX wrote: »

When I saw the statistics about English having the highest number of appeals, but the lowest improvement rate, I saw a conspiracy!

No conspiracy, just reality; this year was not in any way significantly different to other years; the same trends tend to repeat.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Maybe I overreacted, but I can honestly tell you, someone messed up when they marked my paper and despite obvious errors by the grader, my appeal was turned down.

On this I cannot and will not comment specifically; I can't, I haven't seen your paper.

What I will again point out, as others have pointed out, is that your paper has been marked by at least two examiners, working to a marking scheme under the guidance of a supervising examiner who will have sampled and remarked a percentage of the scripts to ensure that the marking scheme is applied consistently across the board. I will also point out that those examiners asked to mark appeals tend to be among the most experienced of the examiners for that subject (for obvious reasons).

SeamusFX wrote: »

So hearing supposed expert Markers like yourself and Randy implying all the students that appeal are stupid and misinformed, I certainly do take offence!

Neither of us said or implied that; in fact, both of us know very well that's not the case. If all students who appealed were stupid and misinformed, then there would be no upgrades on appeal at all, would there?

You're simply reading into our words what you want to see in order to give you a reason to argue with us.

What we pointed out is that SOME students will appeal without even looking at their scripts because they are convinced they should have done better. Others will view the scripts themselves or with a member of their family, and convince themselves that they deserve an upgrade (and occasionally they will even be right). Others will have the sense to view the script with a teacher, and preferably with an experienced examiner. Some will ignore their advice, as RBT pointed out; most, in fairness, will take their advice, and this latter group has a far better chance of seeing an upgrade when the appeal results come back. It doesn't mean it's guaranteed, though; even an experienced examiner can be inclined to view their own students' work through rose-tinted glasses.

What I certainly pointed out was that more students are inclined to chance their arm on appealing English than most other subjects, due to the exaggerated assumption that English is "subjective" and that therefore they have a greater chance of success. This misapprehension accounts for the higher number of appeals in English, and the fact that a lower proportion of them tend to merit an upgrade.

In fact, the percentage of English HL appeals which did get an upgrade this year was around the midpoint in comparison with other subjects when expressed as a percentage of the total number of grades for that subject / level, as opposed to as a percentage of the number of appeals, and that's actually the only statistic that has meaning as a comparison.

English HL - 0.6% of TOTAL NUMBER of grades.
French HL - 0.6% of TOTAL NUMBER of grades.
Geography HL - 0.4% of TOTAL NUMBER of grades.
History HL - 0.8% of TOTAL NUMBER of grades.
Irish HL - 0.6% of of TOTAL NUMBER of grades.

(Source here, with percentages for other subjects as well.)

SeamusFX wrote: »

Trout,

You're showing that examiners aren't too bright ...

And we have another insulting dig at someone, as you did with me above, simply because you don't want to hear or understand any opinion which doesn't agree with yours.

SeamusFX wrote: »

... and if you are even really an examiner, as this is the internet.[

She is, and a highly experienced one in her subject. How do I know? I know who RBT is in real life.

SeamusFX wrote: »

Well if there's one incompetent marker, there could just as easily be two, or maybe the second one was just too lazy to even check, but that in it's self makes him incompetent

...

Yes, as you said "They will not view English the same way because there is some subjectivity in it, so they send it back", but doesn't that same attitude also apply to the examiners? Since they know there's some subjectivity in English, maybe they make little effort to even bother re-checking .... and maybe because of that, the Examiners also see English as an easy opportunity to do no work and return the same grade, even when it is clearly wrong!!!!

Completely off the mark, in my experience, but as you admit yourself, you're determined to invent a conspiracy, so no doubt that will fall on deaf ears.

SeamusFX wrote: »

So, you've given a reasonable explanation as to why English has the largest amount of appeals, but it still doesn't explain why it has the lowest improvement rate ...

Actually, it does, if you sit back and think about it objectively, as opposed to allowing yourself to be blinded by your own frustration.

Now, we have pointed out that you are incorrect in saying that the number of appeals for English this year was higher than other years; we have pointed out that the level of upgrades in English was broadly in line with other subjects when expressed as a percentage of the TOTAL NUMBER OF GRADES in that subject.

We have suggested to you from our experience a good reason as to why the percentage of upgrades as opposed to the total number of actual appeals is likely to be lower in English than in most other subjects. You don't want to believe us; that's your choice.

None of us can comment specifically on your paper, and if this thread stays open until Doomsday, we still won't be able to do so.

Given this, and given your propensity to insult the people who have taken the time to respond courteously to your thread, I see no benefit in this thread remaining open.

I would suggest that if you still feel the need to vent on the subject, you find another site or start a blog; this forum certainly will not be the location, the subject has been accorded more than sufficient time already.

And a final note of warning, speaking as a moderator of this forum: if you choose to continue to use this forum, do so without taking insulting digs at those who disagree with you or who advance another opinion.

If you continue to do that, your privilege of posting to this forum will be revoked.

And let's be clear: it is a privilege, not a right. This is a privately-owned website, and there is no "right of free speech" here; and most certainly, there is no right to insult people who take the time and trouble to respond to you.