Should the leaving cert really be the 'be all end all'?

Seanf999

Teachers treat the living cert like it's the only thing that matters, I mean of course it is important but I'm not sure to the degree they are thinking.

I'm alright in school not killing myself but not slacking, yet teachers harp on about ' you have to put in this many hours a night and more on days off and more again on weekends and god forbid I was put a day!'
I'm in 5th so I may not be the most qualified to answer but I see the leaving cert as important but not the single most significant thing in life up to the age of 18 or so..

You can be successful with an average leaving cert, I'm not talking Richard Branson level or anything but living a happy life. I get the impression that teachers (in my school) don't see it as such.

rainbowtrout

Some students are well able to work by themselves regardless of what their teachers say or don't say.

Some students need to be prodded and poked to get them to do the work.

Some students have to be dragged kicking and screaming through a 2 year course for a whole variety of reasons.

Also if a student gets a good result the reaction is 'good student, they must have worked hard'. If a student gets a poor result the teacher is often blamed. We are tasked with educating you in our subject areas, hopefully you pick up other skills in the classroom while you are at it, but part of the responsibility of educating you is preparing you for an exam that will determine in the short term if you are offered a college place. There are other ways of getting to college, but as the vast majority go the route of the CAO, we have a job to do.

My subject has coursework. I do a lot of the coursework in fifth year with my students. If I didn't pester them to get it done in fifth year, it would all be thrown together at the last minute in sixth year. There are always students who won't comply with me in fifth year. There are students in my current LC class who are now panicking about work that isn't complete that I am looking for. They are also blaming me because it isn't done. When I tell them that they need to have a completed experiment copy with 20 experiments done, they think I'm off my rocker expecting them to do that much work. If they had written it up last year at one every week or two like they were instructed, they wouldn't have this work to do on top of the rest of their sixth year work. We don't do it to wind you up on purpose.


Didn't you have a number of threads over the last few months about moving to HL subjects in 5th year when you slacked off and did OL in JC, because now you want to become a doctor. Well the ground that was covered in those threads highlighted the need for a near perfect LC and the fact that you have a lot of catching up to do. Maybe you have been let into the HL classes and teachers expect you to put in a lot more effort to catch up to the standard of the rest of the class if you are serious about going into medicine.

Seanf999

I've seen a number of those kicking and screaming types so far..

I did indeed have a number of threads regarding high leaving points (and I remember you answers!)

I am currently doing all higher level bar maths which I tried for a month but it was not within my grasp, I am currently thinking of going the Carlow physiology route into physiotherapy not medicine as I feel like it is feasible.

I agree that teachers are blamed when students do badly (usually by parents) but that being said I don't think everyone is cut out for the system of the leaving cert..Thanks for the answer!.

lulu1

As a parent of a student who did their leaving cert this year I wouldnt blame the teacher for the student getting a bad result because it wouldn't look good on them. I think it is up to the student themselves to put in the work. My daughter definately didn't go mad studying, but before the lc she iid go to all the after school study classes and also at weekends.She ended up with 450 points which was brilliant. There was one girl in her class and her parents took her out of the school and moved her to a boarding school in a different part of the country for fear her friends would keep her from getting the points she needed. the girl still didnt get the points and is now back at her old school to resit

MaybeMyabeNot

On the subject of teachers. I've been to 12 schools in my life. Some teachers are good, some are bad. Some of the good get limited by the students and their ability to control the class.

The bad ones stand out, and they're a problem. Some of them don't care, and some just don't know their material. I didn't encounter many, but they do exist.

I think the system is heavily skewed towards certain archetypes of learners. It should be changed to accommodate all. Another thing that I heavily dislike the system is that students aren't being continuously assessed. It's one exam per subject, you only get one chance. What id you were feeling xompletely **** that day and couldn't remember a thing because anxiety took over? I sometimes have says when I recall things with great ease. On the other hand, some days I can't remember anything that I knew perfectly yesterday.This also prevents students from seeing their progression and demotivates them.

The coursework is also very restrictive. You're not always necessarily learning things that are relevant. Just look at the extra languages for example, you're learning strictly for the exam.

Writing speed plays a big part in some of the exams. It really shouldn't.

And then there's the link between CAO and LC. It strives for a fair system, but some might get screwed over. I mean, let's say you want to be a cliche game dev. You might be really good and knowledgeable at making games. You might've learned a some programming languages, and even made some games in your spare time. But you just can't wrap your mind around history and geography. They have nothing to do with making games whatsoever, but you didn't get enough points for your course. One might argue however that the LC tests your work ethic and whatever else though.

Anyway, I just want to advocate for continues assessment and a less restrictive course with options within subjects.

rainbowtrout

Seanf999 wrote: »

I've seen a number of those kicking and screaming types so far..

I did indeed have a number of threads regarding high leaving points (and I remember you answers!)

I am currently doing all higher level bar maths which I tried for a month but it was not within my grasp, I am currently thinking of going the Carlow physiology route into physiotherapy not medicine as I feel like it is feasible.

I agree that teachers are blamed when students do badly (usually by parents) but that being said I don't think everyone is cut out for the system of the leaving cert..Thanks for the answer!.

I run the PLC section of my school. I've seen students do a terrible LC for a variety of reasons and then thrive when they do a PLC and go on to college and continue to thrive. Many of them were hesitant to do PLC because they didn't think they'd get anywhere and then they saw how far they came in the year and continued to achieve afterwards.

rainbowtrout

lulu1 wrote: »

As a parent of a student who did their leaving cert this year I wouldnt blame the teacher for the student getting a bad result because it wouldn't look good on them. I think it is up to the student themselves to put in the work. My daughter definately didn't go mad studying, but before the lc she iid go to all the after school study classes and also at weekends.She ended up with 450 points which was brilliant. There was one girl in her class and her parents took her out of the school and moved her to a boarding school in a different part of the country for fear her friends would keep her from getting the points she needed. the girl still didnt get the points and is now back at her old school to resit

You're totally right. Boarding school/ grind schools are not a magical solution if the student doesn't put in the work themselves, but it is often an excuse by the student to blame the teacher if they didn't get the grades expected because they had let on to their parents they were doing much more work than they actually were.

A parent rang me at the start of the school year and asked me to view her son's Leaving Cert paper. She said he was unhappy with his result. He got a HL C3 with me. To be honest I was amazed he got that, I expected him at best to scrape a D3, he hadn't done a tap all year, and did damn well to get a C3. Anyway, she came to the viewing with him and we went through every word he wrote on the paper. It was clear that an awful lot of what he wrote was complete rubbish, and the mother knew it and she gave me a look at one stage that said 'I can see there's nothing here, he was lucky to get a C' and I was delighted because he had clearly told her he was doing way more work than he had and should have done better. His answering across several papers told her that evening, it was certainly not the case.

I wish more parents saw their children's papers so they could see the reality of some of their results.

thelad95

The Leaving Cert is far from the be all and end all.

PizzamanIRL

No and it's not.

iamback

rainbowtrout wrote: »

You're totally right. Boarding school/ grind schools are not a magical solution if the student doesn't put in the work themselves, but it is often an excuse by the student to blame the teacher if they didn't get the grades expected because they had let on to their parents they were doing much more work than they actually were.

A parent rang me at the start of the school year and asked me to view her son's Leaving Cert paper. She said he was unhappy with his result. He got a HL C3 with me. To be honest I was amazed he got that, I expected him at best to scrape a D3, he hadn't done a tap all year, and did damn well to get a C3. Anyway, she came to the viewing with him and we went through every word he wrote on the paper. It was clear that an awful lot of what he wrote was complete rubbish, and the mother knew it and she gave me a look at one stage that said 'I can see there's nothing here, he was lucky to get a C' and I was delighted because he had clearly told her he was doing way more work than he had and should have done better. His answering across several papers told her that evening, it was certainly not the case.

I wish more parents saw their children's papers so they could see the reality of some of their results.

How did the mother see the paper as well as you. As far as I know only the student and one other person can see a LC paper and the student must be there at the time as well?