How best to filter flouride from the water

cottagebound

I want to buy a water filter for my family to filter out nasties including flouride.

I am leaning towards the "big berkey" from the UK. Has anyone alternative suggestions?

thanks

bren2002

Can you filter out a dissolved substance? Why would you want to filter it out anyway?

bren2002

Ah, you can filter it through reverse osmosis. That answers my first question.

Jawgap

bren2002 wrote: »

Ah, you can filter it through reverse osmosis. That answers my first question.

But I think that will take out other minerals?

Activated alumina is the usual way flouride and other chemicals are removed

canisters are pricey (about $200 each) and have to be replaced at least once a year. Plus to get the maximum efficiency you have to reduce the pH of your water.

As someone said earlier why would you want to take it out?

EDIT: aah, I see the Big Berkey filter uses activated alumina.

This is the bit from their website that would 'concern' me

While the above results indicate that the residual process dust adds a minute amount of activated alumina to the water, the Black Berkey water filters reduce aluminum from the water. We tested water that naturally contained .320ppm aluminum and filtered it through the combination of the Black Berkey and the post conditioned PF-2 filtration elements (5 cycles). The results showed a net reduction in aluminum contamination (Raw influent: .320ppm - Effluent after passing through the Black Berkey and PF-2 elements: .232ppm). Again, the standard tests cannot distinguish between aluminum (Al) and activated alumina (Al2O3), which is inert. Nevertheless, the tests showed a net reduction by the Black Berkey filter element in the combination of naturally occurring aluminum plus any residual activated alumina (Al2O3)process dust from the PF-2 elements.

Given a choice between fluoride and Aluminum in my water (regardless of whatever inert form it might be in) - I think I'd go with the fluoride.

DoYouEvenLift

Why is water in Ireland still fluoridated anyway? There have been studies done in other countries about it and iirc some even claimed it can cause a reduction in IQ levels of children.

I remember seeing a clip on YouTube where there was a discussion done on RTE on the topic and the lady arguing against it was presenting actual valid arguments and some fuking idiot stated "well America is still fluoridating their water supplies so why should we stop?"... Honestly pissed me off as it implies that we're not a nation capable of carrying out our own investigations on topics like these and reaching our own conclusions and doing what we feel is best for our country instead of just following the methods in place elsewhere.

Jawgap

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Why is water in Ireland still fluoridated anyway? There have been studies done in other countries about it and iirc some even claimed it can cause a reduction in IQ levels of children.

I remember seeing a clip on YouTube where there was a discussion done on RTE on the topic and the lady arguing against it was presenting actual valid arguments and some fuking idiot stated "well America is still fluoridating their water supplies so why should we stop?"... Honestly pissed me off as it implies that we're not a nation capable of carrying out our own investigations on topics like these and reaching our own conclusions and doing what we feel is best for our country instead of just following the methods in place elsewhere.

To prevent tooth decay.

Scientific Opinion on Dietary Reference Values for fluoride

DoYouEvenLift

Jawgap wrote: »

To prevent tooth decay.

Scientific Opinion on Dietary Reference Values for fluoride

But it can also cause dental fluorosis in children which is permanent damage to enamel. We have fluoride in our toothpaste to prevent tooth decay so I don't see why fluoridated water is also needed. As long as oral health is taught and practiced correctly from a young age wouldn't your teeth be fine? At the risk of contradicting my previous point about making independent decisions domestically, lots of European countries have no water fluoridation. These include Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and England has a minimal percentage of fluoridated water. A lot of these countries are also ranked amongs the highest in the world for dental hygiene.

Jawgap

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

But it can also cause dental fluorosis in children which is permanent damage to enamel. We have fluoride in our toothpaste to prevent tooth decay so I don't see why fluoridated water is also needed. As long as oral health is taught and practiced correctly from a young age wouldn't your teeth be fine? At the risk of contradicting my previous point about making independent decisions domestically, lots of European countries have no water fluoridation. These include Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and England has a minimal percentage of fluoridated water. A lot of these countries are also ranked amongs the highest in the world for dental hygiene.

It can, which is why the Tolerable Upper Intake Level (UL) for fluoride for children up to the age of eight years was set by EFSA at 0.1 mg/kg body weight per day or 1.5 mg/day and 2.5 mg/day for children aged 1-3 and 4-8 years, respectively, and the drinking water parameter was set at 1.5 mgF/l - to provide a protective effect with minimal risk of fluorosis.

And it's true - as long as oral health is taught and practiced correctly from a young age your teeth should be fine - but not everyone is taught it and not everyone practices it, and, as usual, it's the less well off who suffer the most because of educational disadvantage to which you can add the high cost of toothpaste (relative to their income) and the cost of dental care.

As for the other European countries that have no water fluoridation, they often fluoridate their salt (Austria, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, the Netherlands, Spain and Switzerland) and have good, free health care.

Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales and England have free dental under the NHS.

cottagebound

There isn't any evidence to support it helps prevent tooth decay but plenty to support the fact of its effect as a neurotoxin. (this goes without saying) I think about 80% of europe does not use it - why Ireland does is beyond me. There isn't any need for it - particularly since we have been using tooth brushes for some time now, with or without the flouridated toothpaste (which by the way can be made cheaply and effectively at home.)

I don't want to ingest flouride more than i have to, and it's irking we are forced to drink it in our water. (and the rest).

Following on from what americans do or don't do would not be of interest to me bearing in mind the general dumbing down taking place in that country and others. Clearly flouride is not helping to increase IQ.

but I digress. Perhaps someone could answer my question.

Cianmcliam

Water fluoridation certainly does help prevent tooth decay, in fact we probably underestimate its effects as those studied in un-fluoridated areas probably benefit from fluoridated water at many points in their lives. Here's the data For Ireland in the right hand graph:



Chlorine used to treat water was used in chemical warfare by both sides during WWI but fluoride paranoid conspiracy theorists don't seem to mind that.

It is all in the dosage.

Personally, I think fluoridation is also a good lightning rod for paranoid conspiracy theorists, junk scientists and angel healers, if we weren't fluoridating they would be out there now convincing scientifically illiterate county councillors that vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary.

DoYouEvenLift

Cianmcliam wrote: »

Water fluoridation certainly does help prevent tooth decay, in fact we probably underestimate its effects as those studied in un-fluoridated areas probably benefit from fluoridated water at many points in their lives. Here's the data For Ireland in the right hand graph:



Chlorine used to treat water was used in chemical warfare by both sides during WWI but fluoride paranoid conspiracy theorists don't seem to mind that.

It is all in the dosage.

Personally, I think fluoridation is also a good lightning rod for paranoid conspiracy theorists, junk scientists and angel healers, if we weren't fluoridating they would be out there now convincing scientifically illiterate county councillors that vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary.

I lold

Jawgap

I went to a meeting once where a group were expressing a protest against mandatory fluoridation.

They served tea at the meeting..........tea has one of the highest natural concentrations of fluoride of any food.

I asked what tea they were serving and it turned out it was a supermarket own brand - they seemed unaware of the data that showed that the cheaper the tea the higher the fluoride content.

So there they were complaining about the 1mg/l or so of fluoride in the water while serving a beverage with probably 5 to 6 mg/l Fl in it!!

cottagebound

Minus the opinion and diatribe will any one answer my question?

Jawgap

cottagebound wrote: »

Minus the opinion and diatribe will any one answer my question?

I think I did - activated alumina filters (as in what the Big Berkey filters seem to contain), but be aware in removing Fluoride you may be adding Aluminum.

cottagebound

Hi - yes, I have my sights set on a big berkey, but do you know of any others similar? they are a bit bulky.

(edit): i.e. the specific name of a filter, or one that someone has tried and tested. Thanks

Jawgap

cottagebound wrote: »

Hi - yes, I have my sights set on a big berkey, but do you know of any others similar? they are a bit bulky.

(edit): i.e. the specific name of a filter, or one that someone has tried and tested. Thanks

The only other ones I've ever seen were in the US in inline systems - iirc correctly they were expensive to install and the cartridges were about $200 each.

BTW - just so you know the idea that Fl impacts cognitive development came about from a meta-analysis carried out by Harvard School of Public Health - it looked at the results of 27 studies, 25 of which were conducted in China and involved levels of Fl we wouldn't on our worst days even come close to seeing here.

As I said, I think it's worth considering what you are introducing to get rid of the Fluoride - it may be that the cartridges carry it in an inert form but there are a lot more conclusive studies out there discussing aluminum toxicity than there are are fluoride toxicity.

cottagebound

Aluminium potentially disastrous to brain, I agree.

Jawgap

cottagebound wrote: »

Aluminium potentially disastrous to brain, I agree.

Take out the word 'potentially' and I'd agree too;)

cottagebound

Just purchased an entire new set of cast iron cooking ware - ditched the non stick stuff.

Jawgap

cottagebound wrote: »

Just purchased an entire new set of cast iron cooking ware - ditched the non stick stuff.

Whatevere floats your boat - but food does more damage to us than cookware ever could or will.

Highways

The Simply Water Filter Systems has an add-on Flouride Filter as an add on to the Doulton Supercarb filter candle. Available from Highway Wholesalers if you're in the trade or if not, through our dealers listed on the website; hwl.ie or PM me.

Highways

The Simply Water Filter Systems has an add-on Flouride Filter as an add on to the Doulton Supercarb filter candle. Available from Highway Wholesalers if you're in the trade or if not, through our dealers listed on the website; hwl.ie or PM me.

cottagebound

I will check them out Highways. Thanks

Jawgap

Simply Water wrote: »

removed advert

How?

gctest50

UV filter will neuter em

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17680675

GarIT

Jawgap wrote: »

To prevent tooth decay.

Scientific Opinion on Dietary Reference Values for fluoride

It has value, the studies against it are questionable. But medicating the whole population via the water supply is completely unacceptable.

Jawgap

gctest50 wrote: »

UV filter will neuter em

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17680675

Even the fluoride and chlorine????

And why would you want to add UV elements to an incoming domestic supply? Plus will it deal with Crypto oocysts?

And why would you want to inactivate chlorine - surely the residual is an important public health protection measure?

Jawgap

gctest50 wrote: »

UV filter will neuter em

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17680675

Not all strains of E. coli or coliforms are pathogenic - are they?

It's what the presence of E. coli indicates is what's important, not necessarily the E coli themselves, hence them being referred to as 'indicator' organisms.

NIMAN

Recently bought a RO system and was told it will remove flouride.

Jawgap

NIMAN wrote: »

Recently bought a RO system and was told it will remove flouride.

It will - about 10% of it, unless it's a commercial sized filter managed and maintained to a relatively high standard.

gctest50

Jawgap wrote: »

Not all strains of E. coli or coliforms are pathogenic - are they?

I don't know do i ?

Jawgap wrote: »

It's what the presence of E. coli indicates is what's important, not necessarily the E coli themselves, hence them being referred to as 'indicator' organisms.

indicates you'd need to sell up and move to somewhere there is no human/animal waste in your water supply

or get a proper water filter instead of some mickey mouse setup

Jawgap wrote: »

And why would you want to inactivate chlorine - surely the residual is an important public health protection measure?

you'd be treating it and sorting it out anyway after getting the crap out it

Jawgap

gctest50 wrote: »

I don't know do i ?



indicates you'd need to sell up and move to somewhere there is no human/animal waste in your water supply

or get a proper water filter instead of some mickey mouse setup




you'd be treating it and sorting it out anyway after getting the crap out it

Well, you've convinced me

Residual chlorine is an important public health protection measure to provide some degree of protection should the water become subsequently contaminated through, for example a leak in a pipe etc.

A lot of these systems are playing on people's fears and the hysteria associated pathogens and pathogenic organisms, as well as people's inability to read a basic introduction to chemistry text book.

maringo

Bought a water distiller some time ago for about £100. Heats the water and steam is condensed into a jug. Takes a couple of hours to produce a big jug of water. Stainless steel or cast iron for cooking - no peeling nonstick pans for me. Drink a huge amount of tea so probably negates the above! :eek:

ted1

cottagebound wrote: »

There isn't any evidence to support it helps prevent tooth decay but plenty to support the fact of its effect as a neurotoxin. (this goes without saying) I think about 80% of europe does not use it - why Ireland does is beyond me. There isn't any need for it - particularly since we have been using tooth brushes for some time now, with or without the flouridated toothpaste (which by the way can be made cheaply and effectively at home.)

I don't want to ingest flouride more than i have to, and it's irking we are forced to drink it in our water. (and the rest).

Following on from what americans do or don't do would not be of interest to me bearing in mind the general dumbing down taking place in that country and others. Clearly flouride is not helping to increase IQ.

but I digress. Perhaps someone could answer my question.

In some countries it occurs naturally in the water supply and hence there is no need to add it.

With regards to being a nurutoxin you need to look at the ppm, and they come back to us

Calibos

Anyone got cranial permeability figures and toxicity data for tinfoil hats?

SilentListener

Hi, new to boards so take it easy on me (first post).

Just wondering if anyone is using a Berkey Water Filter at the moment. If so, how do you find it, as I was thinking of buying one.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks.