practise what their preaching!

stack18

Breeding pays! Simple as that you see a good weanling good money and a plain one making small money. Teagasc organise numerous nights of breeding seminar where they go and hand pick examples of each breed of what to be bulling and good examples of calves they can produced. Icbf are there shouting about five stars for this and that and then the Ai companies there promoting the good bulls for them coming year. The Mart is usually full of farmers all experts of course finding faults of the animals on display. Then the following autumn goin to show and sales none of this stock is to be seen maybe a handful goin big money so the question is are lads not puttin in to practise what Teagasc are preaching?. I'm not saying every farmer is producing bad weanling's there is some excellent suckler men out there but in all honesty there is a majority with bad stock and wasting their time of what they are producing. I think there should be an incentive for farmers to breed continental bloodlines only and keep the dairy line out of it I know you can get some good limo out of dairy to produce the blue but not them all. The standard is dropping year to year my father tell's me you would a shamed bringing the stock out that is coming out today with the neighbour having the top quality. I think I've said enough something has to be done or we are goin further down the wrong road!

Farmer Pudsey

Derrypatrick prove year after year( and I am not a fan of there;s) that cross bred cows LMXFR produce the heaviest calf and that ContXCont cannot catch up to them by slaughter in general. The reality is that most Cont cows have not got enough milk for the calves. It is a fact that some pedigriee breeders put calves under Fr cows to improve there stastics and feed high amounts of ration.

The cow produces 50% of the calf and more from a milk point of view. The reality is a calf with access to plenty of milk will out weight a calf from a cow with poor milk yield

Kovu

Quality doesn't always leave the most profit where cattle are concerned. A lot of lads here will advocate 'black and white' beef that will leave more in your pocket than your super continentals.

Hand pick examples of each breed of what to be bulling and good examples of calves they can produced.

Yes, these are examples, but they're hardly going to bring the poorer stock to the seminars are they? Cows can throw super stock one year and average the next. It's a game of chance at times. I'm all for continental cattle, but prefer to see a dairy background in them to produce a smaller continental cross that will have more milk and be of a smaller frame.

Of course there are bad suckler men out there living off their payments from Europe and doing the bare minimum to keep them but I don't agree that quality is getting worse year after year. On the contrary the poorer stock are being squeezed out as sexed semen starts to come into play which will remove some dairy bulls from the market.

I'm going to be the one to say that at a lot of these show sales there's a fair bit of willy waving going on between farmers trying to have the best calf but losing money in the long run when you add up all the costs.

_Brian

I'd say the big problem is lads who don't count their costs properly, and I'd think that applies in both the lads producing exceptional PB stock to lads cross breeding.

Your father might be embarrassed but is he making money? That is the question lads have to answer, not what the neighbours think of your stock when you go out.

But yes, you'll see weanlings hitting the marts this time of year for €650/€800.
And I'd be thinking, anything under €700 probably isn't making money and then those at €800 are making maybe €100, it's a hell of allot of work and risk for little money.

stack18

_Brian wrote: »

But yes, you'll see weanlings hitting the marts this time of year for €650/€800.
And I'd be thinking, anything under €700 probably isn't making money and then those at €800 are making maybe €100, it's a hell of allot of work and risk for little money.

Keeping a cow for a year and if she is calving within the year! Selling for 650 isn't much!

Greengrass1

stack18 wrote: »

Keeping a cow for a year and if she is calving within the year! Selling for 650 isn't much!

Your dead right. 650 id f'all I sold fr bullicks this spring for 500 and abd thet got grass for the summer and silage for the winter

_Brian

stack18 wrote: »

Keeping a cow for a year and if she is calving within the year! Selling for 650 isn't much!

That's my point.
These lads either don't care about making a profit or as I would suspect with many, they have no grip of their accounting and think they are making a profit.

Limestone Cowboy

stack18 wrote: »

Breeding pays! Simple as that you see a good weanling good money and a plain one making small money. Teagasc organise numerous nights of breeding seminar where they go and hand pick examples of each breed of what to be bulling and good examples of calves they can produced. Icbf are there shouting about five stars for this and that and then the Ai companies there promoting the good bulls for them coming year. The Mart is usually full of farmers all experts of course finding faults of the animals on display. Then the following autumn goin to show and sales none of this stock is to be seen maybe a handful goin big money so the question is are lads not puttin in to practise what Teagasc are preaching?. I'm not saying every farmer is producing bad weanling's there is some excellent suckler men out there but in all honesty there is a majority with bad stock and wasting their time of what they are producing. I think there should be an incentive for farmers to breed continental bloodlines only and keep the dairy line out of it I know you can get some good limo out of dairy to produce the blue but not them all. The standard is dropping year to year my father tell's me you would a shamed bringing the stock out that is coming out today with the neighbour having the top quality. I think I've said enough something has to be done or we are goin further down the wrong road!

As important and all as breeding is and I have been a few years trying to get it right here and will be a few more I think where suckler lads fall down is grassland management. Most either don't have a clue/ the inclination or the cash required to reseed, use rotational grazing or even soil test to ensure their land is producing as much as it can and with the price of beef at the moment you'd wonder if it can be justified. I'm just back from the local mart now and most of the calves that were there were U grade Charolais bulls from 300-370kg, couldn't be faulted on quality

Farrell

I was at S&S on Saturday, fantastic prices early on, 280kg making €900-€1000 & maybe more depending on quality (saw 1 hit €1150) for CH, with other breeds making slightly less. At 6pm allot of farmer buyers had gone home empty, as couldn't compete, but the trade slowly got worse, with prices reducing by €200/head by 9pm.
Are the farmers who sold later in the day worse farmers than those who sold early?
To me the stock was as good towards the end, with few poorer quality present throughout

Mad4simmental

[quote=".Kovu.;92500637"

I'm going to be the one to say that at a lot of these show sales there's a fair bit of willy waving going on between farmers trying to have the best calf but losing money in the long run when you add up all the costs.[/quote]

Show and sale this way a few years ago the judge came from whales. In the final was a ch cow with a bb calf. And a ch cow with a ch calf. He gave first prize to the ch cow and calf but the ch cow and bb calf were a better unit.

People were wondering what his reason for this was later. so he was asked by a few people later.

The judge walked over to the cow with the bb calf and pointed to her scar after a c-section and simply said

"there's no money in that lads"

He's dead fcuken right.

Count Mondego

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The reality is that most Cont cows have not got enough milk for the calves.

The cow produces 50% of the calf and more from a milk point of view. The reality is a calf with access to plenty of milk will out weight a calf from a cow with poor milk yield

In my experience this is not necessarily true Pudsey. Sure, at weanling stage the calf off the FRX will probably be heavier but not after 20 months. I have a mix of both and find that the likes of the CHX and LM will eventually pass out the milk addict, even when their mothers had only a spoon of milk.

Deepsouthwest

Mad4simmental wrote: »

Show and sale this way a few years ago the judge came from whales. In the final was a ch cow with a bb calf. And a ch cow with a ch calf. He gave first prize to the ch cow and calf but the ch cow and bb calf were a better unit.

People were wondering what his reason for this was later. so he was asked by a few people later.

The judge walked over to the cow with the bb calf and pointed to her scar after a c-section and simply said

"there's no money in that lads"

He's dead fcuken right.

Great post!

Willfarman

Milk is great stuff. A pal of mine had a jersey cross heifer calve at 16 months of age. Unplanned of course.
Most likely to be in calf by a lim fr cross yearling bull he thought. Calf was a little fart of a yoke but hardy he said. Heifer was too small for to put in parlour so he let her rear calf for 3 months. Then sent it to mart. Was astounded when it made €370.

Farmer Pudsey

Count Mondego wrote: »

In my experience this is not necessarily true Pudsey. Sure, at weanling stage the calf off the FRX will probably be heavier but not after 20 months. I have a mix of both and find that the likes of the CHX and LM will eventually pass out the milk addict, even when their mothers had only a spoon of milk.

All I can point to is the Derrypatrick research that in general Calves from LMXFR cows are heavier at weaning and heavier at slaughter that Cont crossbreeds. Now they are in general slaughtering to market spec ans not carrying beyond that.

mallethead

I had a batch of heifers i sold a few weeks ago all after the same bull , nice heifers ,i had some out of black white heads, some out of limo/fr cross cows and some out of chx cows the heaviest heifer was 560kg out of a black white head cow , the next heifer was 555kg out of a chx cow. the heifer out of the black whitehead made 250 less than the 555kg heifer out of the chx.
I have found a well breed shapey animal always sells well and you will get a better price for them in the mart
Figures can be twisted to suit your point of view and i think teagasc are guilty of it
When you look at the figures from Derrypatrick Calves from the ContXCow
graded better this is never mentioned

onyerbikepat

I was looking at my own weanlings last night. I have an FL21 bull out of a super little black cow. FL21 produces serious weanlings that grow like hell. I'd say this guy is touching 400Kg and 8 months or so. He's within 4 in inches of the cow now heightwise and she's maybe 550Kgs or so. She has serious milk and already lost a quarter. Her ICBF breeding says she is 50/50 Lim/Holstein.
The thing is, she is probably the plainest looking cow I have. I have others that are far heavier and while their calves are better shape, none of them hit that kind of weight.

Farmer Pudsey

onyerbikepat wrote: »

I was looking at my own weanlings last night. I have an FL21 bull out of a super little black cow. FL21 produces serious weanlings that grow like hell. I'd say this guy is touching 400Kg and 8 months or so. He's within 4 in inches of the cow now heightwise and she's maybe 550Kgs or so. She has serious milk and already lost a quarter. Her ICBF breeding says she is 50/50 Lim/Holstein.
The thing is, she is probably the plainest looking cow I have. I have others that are far heavier and while their calves are better shape, none of them hit that kind of weight.

And she is costing a lot less than a big ContXCont cow to keep. As well she will have a longer life span. As against her cull value will be crap compared to a big Cont cow maybe even half the value. However over her life span she will be more economical to keep

Limestone Cowboy

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

And she is costing a lot less than a big ContXCont cow to keep. As well she will have a longer life span. As against her cull value will be crap compared to a big Cont cow maybe even half the value. However over her life span she will be more economical to keep

Not so sure on a longer life span Pudsey, have a few and always had a few Black whitehead cows here and they can get crocked enough after a few years. If you can get a good type of a one they breed very well though. Have a very good black Lim bull out of one this year that is streets ahead of a lot of the calves we have out of continental cows. Born in march and he's around 360kg now without ever seeing a nut.

The Letheram

Milk is all well and good but the place to make money out of it is in a parlour. To make money out of sucklers their calves must make a ship to Italy. Very few calves from friesian cross cows will make that ship. Shape sells better than any extra few kilos.

Kovu

The Letheram wrote: »

Shape sells better than any extra few kilos.

True. You can brush up an animal before a sale all you like but it's how it's made that counts. We feel nuts to ours but because they muscle out better, no point feeding a bad weanling to the gills if it all ends up in a hanging belly....

I always say that the best cow may not produce the best calf, the very opposite may be the case! This is why I'd love to see more cows with their calves on the photo thread, sometimes the plainest cow can surprise you if a bull 'clicks' with her.

Robson99

The Letheram wrote: »

Very few calves from friesian cross cows will make that ship. Shape sells better than any extra few kilos.

Very true. Saw a weanling heifer 285kg make 975e recently.

The Letheram

Sold one a fortnight ago 330kg made €1060. Blue heifer from a blonde x simmental cow. 8 months old.

Robson99

The Letheram wrote: »

Sold one a fortnight ago 330kg made €1060. Blue heifer from a blonde x simmental cow. 8 months old.

Great price Letheram. Good stock will always sell well.

Muckit

.Kovu. wrote: »

True.... sometimes the plainest cow can surprise you if a bull 'clicks' with her.

The 'cl' looked very like a 'd ' there for a minute!

Kovu

Muckit wrote: »

The 'cl' looked very like a 'd ' there for a minute!

Ah now! That would be a very simplistic Biology lesson and if you're a farmer that is learned a very early age.

Muckit

Years ago my younger brother used to wonder if it was the weight of the bull that did it until l pointed out the magic carrot

Kovu

The magic ca..... .......:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Back on thread topic !!! Please!

freedominacup

.Kovu. wrote: »

Back on thread topic !!! Please!

Ya haven't a hope. Ya may wave yer mod magic c... wand and close it down.