district court question

horsebox7

Hi,

Does anybody know if it is possible to get the minutes from a distrcit court hearing?

Thanks

Little CuChulainn

As in the judgement?

horsebox7

As in the verbatim of what was said.

Bepolite

In theory I believe they all have recording; as far as I know though it's either not used or published. I'm open to correction.

horsebox7

horsebox7 wrote: »

Hi,

Does anybody know if it is possible to get the minutes from a distrcit court hearing?

Thanks

Depends what it's for. Most DC's don't have the recording equipment installed and the general answer is almost certainly not.

No minutes are kept of DC hearings though so it's the audio recording or bust I'm afraid.

horsebox7

Thanks to all who answered.

Victor

horsebox7 wrote: »

As in the verbatim of what was said.

That's a transcript. Not normally available to the public. If you were involved in a serious case, your solicitor may be able to access a copy

I imagine the Courts Service create a summary report of a day's hearings, but I suspect they don't do so for publication. The court office may be able to provide details on individual cases, provided you give them sufficient information to identify the case.

Certain cases are heard in camera and details will only be available to the parties and their legal advisers.

Pro Hoc Vice

Deleted User wrote: »

Depends what it's for. Most DC's don't have the recording equipment installed and the general answer is almost certainly not.

No minutes are kept of DC hearings though so it's the audio recording or bust I'm afraid.

I believe that in fact most DC's do in fact have DAR.

If a person wishes to have access to such recordings and or transcript application will have to be made to the court.

horsebox7

Thanks. I found out that it costs approximately €400 to get recordings and you have to apply for them through the courts and through an affidavit. Seems expensive.

horsebox7

If I need to go to court again does anyone know if you are allowed to record the hearing yourself? With the permission of the court of course. Some times the truth is not told.

Victor

horsebox7 wrote: »

If I need to go to court again does anyone know if you are allowed to record the hearing yourself? With the permission of the court of course. Some times the truth is not told.

Without permission isn't allowed.

I can't really see permission being given.

The court wants the facts before it, not recordings so people can be manipulated.

conorh91

Most district courts have DAR facilities by now.

OP, this is the notice you require
http://www.courts.ie/rules.nsf/lookuppagelink/EA10EE0BB37402ED80257B470037FCC0?opendocument&l=en

You would also have to submit a grounding affidavit.

As an aside, you are extremely unlikely to be given a transcript, if one exists, unless you have a live, legal interest in the case and its outcome.

Dubwat

Just stumbled on this thread and I'm curious why one would be unlikely to get a transcript?

Excluding in camera proceedings, isn't justice supposed to be done in public? I guess I could go to the court on the day of a trial with a little notebook and make notes for myself. Or buy the local newspaper.

But, if I couldn't make the public proceedings in person, why not be able to apply for the transcript or recording after the event, if I'm prepared to pay the administrative cost of producing them?

conorh91

Dubwat wrote: »

Excluding in camera proceedings, isn't justice supposed to be done in public? I guess I could go to the court on the day of a trial with a little notebook and make notes for myself. Or buy the local newspaper.

Yep, I'm agreed on that.

I've always believed the courts are too strict in their withholding of transcripts.

Perhaps the dreaded prospect of a serialization of high-profile trials in the newspapers, accompanied by grandstanding and theatrical litigation, has caused this reticence. A bit like the rationale offered for not televising proceedings.

Of course, as you point out, anyone who can write in shorthand could easily record the proceedings using that method. That method is probably how the Irish Times published the sentencing remarks of the Circuit Court in the recent trial of the former executives of Anglo Irish Bank.

Victor

conorh91 wrote: »

Of course, as you point out, anyone who can write in shorthand could easily record the proceedings using that method. That method is probably how the Irish Times published the sentencing remarks of the Circuit Court in the recent trial of the former executives of Anglo Irish Bank.

The problem there is that sometimes shorthand secretaries get words, especially technical words wrong.

I wonder if the sentencing remarks (only) were published by the Courts Service.

Pro Hoc Vice

conorh91 wrote: »

Yep, I'm agreed on that.

I've always believed the courts are too strict in their withholding of transcripts.

Perhaps the dreaded prospect of a serialization of high-profile trials in the newspapers, accompanied by grandstanding and theatrical litigation, has caused this reticence. A bit like the rationale offered for not televising proceedings.

Of course, as you point out, anyone who can write in shorthand could easily record the proceedings using that method. That method is probably how the Irish Times published the sentencing remarks of the Circuit Court in the recent trial of the former executives of Anglo Irish Bank.

Many legal teams and I assume newspapers use the services of private court stenographers, it is normal to see them setting up for high profile cases.

Also in relation to Circuit Court and above, criminal trials the defence will get the transcript for any appeal, but it takes a bit of time.

conorh91

Victor wrote: »

I wonder if the sentencing remarks (only) were published by the Courts Service.

Not as far as I'm aware. Unless they were circulated to journalists in hard copy, which would be a radical departure from procedures.

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Many legal teams and I assume newspapers use the services of private court stenographers, it is normal to see them setting up for high profile cases.

I've never heard of newspapers use private stenography but of course, it's not out of the question.

I'm sure some courts reporters could have managed it with their own shorthand.

I remember at the time some people were making accusations of the Irish Times breaching the rules on recording devices, but that was very cynical indeed… indeed…

Tom Young

Dubwat wrote: »

Just stumbled on this thread and I'm curious why one would be unlikely to get a transcript?

Excluding in camera proceedings, isn't justice supposed to be done in public? I guess I could go to the court on the day of a trial with a little notebook and make notes for myself. Or buy the local newspaper.

But, if I couldn't make the public proceedings in person, why not be able to apply for the transcript or recording after the event, if I'm prepared to pay the administrative cost of producing them?

Differing views on that. Mostly the transcripts are designed to judicially review a decision that may have been made in haste or perhaps without considering all if the evidence.

The bench rarely accedes to transcript / DAR release unless the circumstances are made clear to the Court. Your point in re. Art 34 is well made, but not usually operative.

Article 34

1. Justice shall be administered in courts established by law by judges appointed in the manner provided by this Constitution, and, save in such special and limited cases as may be prescribed by law, shall be administered in public.

Hogan J recently widened the scope of access to Court documents in Allied Irish Bank plc v Tracey (No 2) [2013] IEHC 242 (21 March 2013). The applicant had been mentioned in affidavits filed by the defendant in the main action, and motioned successfully to have access to those affidavits.

horsebox7

Yes. I would agree that in the interest of transparency it would be helpful that recordings or transcripts be made easily accessible to all parties.