NH Racing

FIVE2_THREE

Where are the other players in NH racing ? To me it appears that JP has been so dominate because other outfits are not as well funded. of course, money doesn't assure victory. but it helps. in flat racing it's the complete opposite. it's much more competitive and any one of the top owners have the capability of having a star horse.

cack_handed

Not sure I get the premise here. Take coolmore, aga khan, moyglare, sheikh mohammed, bolger out of it and what have you left on the flat? JP wins the owners championship every year but has o'leary, ricci, the sizing fella and barry connell offering various levels of competition. Personally dont see much of a difference there really

FIVE2_THREE

cack_handed wrote: »

Not sure I get the premise here. Take coolmore, aga khan, moyglare, sheikh mohammed, bolger out of it and what have you left on the flat? JP wins the owners championship every year but has o'leary, ricci, the sizing fella and barry connell offering various levels of competition. Personally dont see much of a difference there really

All of the people/Organizations you mentioned compete all over the world. flat racing is conducted all over the world while NH racing is limited to England,Ireland France and to a lesser extent the U.S. Every time i turn on the TV I see JP winning races, which tells me NH isn't very competitive.

shmeee

Rich Ricci has a fair arsenal of ammunition to go to war with this season. Some new additions also to Mullins.

coopdog85

McManus horses win at every track in Ireland & England. Ricci horses win at Leopardstown, Punchestown, Cheltenham & Aintree. JP is a saviour of the sport as he has horses in training with a huge amount of trainers in Ireland. The likes of O'Brien, Elliot, Swan, Kiely, Nash etc. he doesn't monopolise them in Ireland like he does in the UK & I admire him for that. Without JP racing in Ireland & UK would be bang in trouble.

cack_handed

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

All of the people/Organizations you mentioned compete all over the world. flat racing is conducted all over the world while NH racing is limited to England,Ireland France and to a lesser extent the U.S. Every time i turn on the TV I see JP winning races, which tells me NH isn't very competitive.

Ah ok, I see your point, I guess one difference is most of those investing on the Flat, with exception of Arabs maybe, are doing so on the basis they will make a substantial return on it, likes of magnier, bolger, moyglare et al. On the jumps they're virtually pissing their money anyway & seem quite happy to do so, great PR for JP if nothing else, although his racing philanthropy does seem very genuine

Not sure, though, JP's dominance is as pronounced as you make out. We should probably be thankful for small mercies in that he never forged an alliance with Willie Mullins! Imagine what mullins would be doing with JP's cheque book behind him? Odd really why Mullins has had so few JP horses but i'm not complaining about that!

shmeee

coopdog85 wrote: »

McManus horses win at every track in Ireland & England. Ricci horses win at Leopardstown, Punchestown, Cheltenham & Aintree. JP is a saviour of the sport as he has horses in training with a huge amount of trainers in Ireland. The likes of O'Brien, Elliot, Swan, Kiely, Nash etc. he doesn't monopolise them in Ireland like he does in the UK & I admire him for that. Without JP racing in Ireland & UK would be bang in trouble.

Can't disagree with any of that. JP will have runners on a wet Tuesday at Wincanton or Sedgefield. And rare he wouldn't have a winner!

FIVE2_THREE

I don't know if its good or bad for one man to dominate but I will say it's not good for an industry to be reliant upon one team. for instance France is heavily reliant upon the Aga Khan but once he goes what will they do ? none of his sons are interested in racing. and I think JP is in the same situation. I don't think his children care for racing.

famagusta

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I don't know if its good or bad for one man to dominate but I will say it's not good for an industry to be reliant upon one team. for instance France is heavily reliant upon the Aga Khan but once he goes what will they do ? none of his sons are interested in racing. and I think JP is in the same situation. I don't think his children care for racing.

As said above, JP is one of the best things to ever happen racing. He keeps the wheels turning for a lot of small yards who don't have a lot of horses. And you know he'll pay the training fees!!

He does win a lot of races alright mainly by the fact that he has loads of horses in training, most of them are egg and spoon races during the week. Without him there would be one and often more runners less in these races.

Btw, his son Kieran seems to be more or less running most of the racing operation at the moment.

razorhead

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

I don't know if its good or bad for one man to dominate but I will say it's not good for an industry to be reliant upon one team. for instance France is heavily reliant upon the Aga Khan but once he goes what will they do ? none of his sons are interested in racing. and I think JP is in the same situation. I don't think his children care for racing.

You might be incorrect in your thinking there F2T,

cack_handed

famagusta wrote: »

Btw, his son Kieran seems to be more or less running most of the racing operation at the moment.

Although not this week obviously as he's busy shooting the lights out at the Dunhill Links this week!

They do seem to be buying a better class of horse these days, though, whether JP has changed his buying policy or not. Less money down the drain anyway

ArmaniJeanss

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

for instance France is heavily reliant upon the Aga Khan but once he goes what will they do

No expert on French racing but I think thats plain wrong - surely they have plenty of rich patrons with large strings, the Werteimers, Wildenstein, Niarchos, Aug-Normand + various Arab owners.
HRH Aga Khan is just another owner, I don't see that french racing has any reliance on him.

FIVE2_THREE

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

No expert on French racing but I think thats plain wrong - surely they have plenty of rich patrons with large strings, the Werteimers, Wildenstein, Niarchos, Aug-Normand + various Arab owners.
HRH Aga Khan is just another owner, I don't see that french racing has any reliance on him.

Just another owner ? LOL without the Aga Khan Chanitlly would be falling apart LITERALLY

The Aga Khan is to donate €40m (£27.4m) of his fortune to help restore France's largest privately owned estate, which includes a park, a Renaissance chateau, a racecourse and the biggest classical art collection in the country outside the Louvre.
The billionaire businessman and racehorse owner, who is a British citizen, will provide more than half of a €70m fund set up with the French state, the Institut de France - which owns the magnificent but badly decayed Chantilly estate - and local authorities.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/mar/03/france.jonhenley

ArmaniJeanss

Thats great because Chantilly is a wonderful estate/course.

But we are talking about your claim that French racing is 'heavily reliant' on his contribution to racing. Looking at the owner stats for the last few years he is clearly important but he is no JP, i.e., in the key stats of number of runners, number of horses, no of winners, prizemoney etc he is nothing outlandish, just a solid Top 3 performer.
I'm just not seeing 'heavy reliance'.

FIVE2_THREE

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Thats great because Chantilly is a wonderful estate/course.

But we are talking about your claim that French racing is 'heavily reliant' on his contribution to racing. Looking at the owner stats for the last few years he is clearly important but he is no JP, i.e., in the key stats of number of runners, number of horses, no of winners, prizemoney etc he is nothing outlandish, just a solid Top 3 performer.
I'm just not seeing 'heavy reliance'.

You'e said it yourself. you're no French racing expert. my advice to you would be get over here to France and explore the economic influence and importance The Aga Khan has.

nuckeythompson

Dont know how many horses the aga khan has in training in france but French racing is win win for them because of PMU. Its a model we should follow here as the reinvestment is huge. Yes he has influence but Id the "heavy relience" is with PMU and noone else

the groutch

flat racing is a business, there's huge money in breeding, so you're going to have multiple big players.

jumps racing is a hobby, overall the chances of making a long-term profit out it are slim.
that's why there's less big players.