Double Standards - My mum having NSA one night stands.

LegacyUser

Hi there, this might become a little longwinded so please excuse me.

From the outside, me and my mum are pretty close, I'm 20, she's 55 and been seperated from my dad since I was 5. She's had one or two serious boyfriends since then but has severe depression and went through a psychotic episode a few years back so never really wanted to be too involved with anyone. When I was about 13 she started using Adult Friend Finder (She's not the most computer literate and we had a shared desktop at the time so our recently visited websites took an interesting turn) and was having NSA one night stands with people from the internet who I would occasionally run into after I was in school. She would never tell me the truth about why they were there or who they were and I never let on I knew out of nothing more than embarrassment really.

From this you can probably tell why I said we seem pretty close from the outside; we get on well but there's very little honesty between us in these sorts of situations. Tonight she told me she was meeting someone for coffee in town and immediately I was a little suspicious; she hates the city and tends to stay in our locality for such things but I didn't ask any more. She called me on the way home sounding a little drunk and when she got home her mascara was all smudged (she never even wears makeup) She blamed this on her oily skin and I thought no more of it.

I then went to use her phone as she's on bill pay and I'm not, a regular thing, but she hesitated before handing it to me. After I used the phone I'll admit I had a snoop through her inbox and read texts which didn't sound like they came from my mother. It turns out that yesterday night she'd hooked up with a guy in a hotel, and then tonight met a married man at his apartment in town and had NSA sex on both occasions. These guys were met on hookup websites for swingers, something she tells me my dad partook in before they split up and she could never understand why someone would do that sort of thing.

Now, I know she's entitled to her own sex life and personal privacy, but the thing that gets me here is that we recently had a few arguments over my privacy. I'm very open with her and let her see my bank account details whenever she wishes, she knows most of my passwords etc, but recently I decided to have an abortion and not tell her as I didn't feel the need, and she went through my emails etc. to see who I'd told, but wouldn't bring it up with my until I asked why she had not spoken to me. She said she thought we discussed everything and she felt betrayed. I told her it was my decision and I was fine with it and was more hurt that she would snoop like that instead of just asking me. Two years ago she also stopped speaking to me when she discovered I was sexually active and hadn't told her, again, she expects full disclosure from me but won't provide the same.

I'm also very worried from a mental health point of view; when she did this online hookup stuff before she wasn't happy and I'm worried that she's going down a bad path again. I know some of you will say I shouldn't, but I feel very responsible for her as we've been alone for so long. I have to take care of her, as she does me. I feel like I need to address this to make sure that she's not using it as an cry for help. Just remember that this is not really in her nature; she's honest with me about her sex life with boyfriends and my dad but this sort of stuff, and the messages I saw on her phone reads like a 15 year old who's been on Chatroulette a little too much, if you get me.

I guess I'd just like some advice on how to approach her on this, as I don't really have anyone else to talk to about this... Thank you for reading.

kiffer

Parents will always see their children as children.
Even when they start treating you as an adult you are fundamentally their child and generally feel they should be looking out for you.

Change all your passwords, you will have no privacy until you do.

edit: sorry, I'm posting from my phone and having trouble with it...

Trying to look after a parents behaviour seems like it might not be the way to go...
If she's having trouble that is then manifesting as messy behaviour try to talk to her about that.
Is there anything that may be cause her distress? A change in circumstances?

Tokyo

Your mother is a 55 year old adult, entitled to a private life. You are a 20 year old adult, entitled to a private life. And you were both in the wrong at the respective instances where you snooped through each others private messages, in her case, your emails, and in your case, her phone messages.

My advice would be to stay out of it - depression can't be the catch-all for every action of hers that you disapprove of. And ensure that she stays out of your private affairs by not sharing your email password with her. Of course, there's nothing wrong with expressing general concern and asking her if everything is okay. And seeing how much she wants to share with you, if there is anything worth sharing.

greengirl31

OP, my parents are of a similar age and they split up a good few years ago now. They’ve both had relationships since – some serious and some not so serious. I never had a problem with any of it to be honest but I used to HATE when either my mum or dad would try to discuss relationship stuff with me … It just made me feel uncomfortable. Don’t get me wrong, I was happy for them but I really didn’t want to know how my dad felt about his current lady friend or how my Mum and her BF used to curl up on the sofa … If the conversation got anywhere near sex I would practically put my fingers in my ears and start shouting LALALA !! Also, I would never discuss the more intimate parts of my relationships with either of them. It’s not that any of us didn’t care but I think there are and should be boundaries between parents and children – Yes they may change as you get older but my view is my mum is my mum and not the same as my best friend.

As for the privacy issue, I think you’re both entitled to it but it’s up to each of you to manage it. Change your passwords, perhaps have different log on’s to the computer if you’re still sharing, keep your bank details to yourself (nobody should have any reason to look at these!!) Also, you have to respect your mum’s choices - what she does and who she does it with is her business – she’s a grown woman and as long as she’s being careful what’s the harm – she’s still a young woman! The same goes for her too – she has to respect your decisions too. TBH, you both seem as bad as each other in this situation. Have a talk with her, between the two of you set some boundaries and I think you’ll both get along better for it

LegacyUser

Whatever about a parent being concerned for his/her child's life/health/welfare, you, OP, have no rights whatsoever to know anything your mother does. Your relationship with your mother sounds unhealthy for both parties.

Barely There

lying_mum wrote: »

Now, I know she's entitled to her own sex life and personal privacy,

It would seem from the rest of your post that you actually don't seem to know this at all.

seamus

BananaMan12 wrote: »

Whatever about a parent being concerned for his/her child's life/health/welfare, you, OP, have no rights whatsoever to know anything your mother does. Your relationship with your mother sounds unhealthy for both parties.

"Unhealthy" is a bit loaded there. It's most likely just a natural progression of their relationship. Presumably she's been a single mother for the last 15 years, which means the OP and her mother have been living in eachothers' pockets for that entire time and have likely become very close and accustomed to sharing and talking and relying on each other for support.

Stress and conflict arises for both parties, when that unspoken closeness is apparently betrayed; the OP doesn't confide her sexual activity to her mother, and vice-versa. Both parties feel obligated to support the other, but if they don't have all of the information, then they can't fulfill that obligation.

I just think they both need to sit down and come to the mutual understanding that their relationship has changed, whether they like it or not. The OP is now a young woman, and with that comes the right to privacy, the right to decide unilaterally how to run her own life - but also the realisation that her mother too is an independent adult with the right to run her life whatever way she wants and withhold whatever information she wishes to, without having to explain her decision to anyone.

The OP will always be her mother's child, but at the same time you have to move from an adult/child relationship into an adult relationship.

LegacyUser

seamus wrote: »

"Unhealthy" is a bit loaded there. It's most likely just a natural progression of their relationship. Presumably she's been a single mother for the last 15 years, which means the OP and her mother have been living in eachothers' pockets for that entire time and have likely become very close and accustomed to sharing and talking and relying on each other for support.

Stress and conflict arises for both parties, when that unspoken closeness is apparently betrayed; the OP doesn't confide her sexual activity to her mother, and vice-versa. Both parties feel obligated to support the other, but if they don't have all of the information, then they can't fulfill that obligation.

I just think they both need to sit down and come to the mutual understanding that their relationship has changed, whether they like it or not. The OP is now a young woman, and with that comes the right to privacy, the right to decide unilaterally how to run her own life - but also the realisation that her mother too is an independent adult with the right to run her life whatever way she wants and withhold whatever information she wishes to, without having to explain her decision to anyone.

The OP will always be her mother's child, but at the same time you have to move from an adult/child relationship into an adult relationship.

I probably should have mentioned things like, yes, she's been a single mother for 15 years to give you some more context - sorry about that.

I think you're right that sitting down and having a conversation is the way to go, I'm just not sure how to broach it.
The thing that is concerning me most is the nature of these 'casual' hookups. One is with a married man who has a child on the way. How can she justify partaking in this kind of behaviour? When I told her I was sexually active she called me a slut, but that seems a little hypocritical to me now.

She has always been a heavy drinker since she split from my dad (one or two bottles of wine each night) and all these encounters are being organised late at night when she's drinking.

I guess the reason I snooped on her is that we are both very much our only family so there's no support network for either of us outside of eachother. I just don't want her doing risky things with strangers who could be anyone, not tell me, her not to come home one night and me not to know why when anything could have happened to her... I just can't imagine having these kind of illicit hookups can be good for her mental wellbeing.

ash23

Op I am a single parent with a daughter. It's just me and her and I can see how this evolved between yourself and your mother.

First off, you have no right to snoop in your mothers business. She is or was trying to protect you from her flings/boyfriends/affairs etc which is the right thing to do really and while she could have been better at that (not having them at the house) she is entitled to a life and you reading her messages etc is a total violation of her privacy.

Secondly, I would think that her invasion of your privacy is equally awful. I'd imagine it started out as protecting you. At the moment my child is a child and I have access to her emails, passwords etc. This is not out of nosiness but safety for her online presence. I will imagine a time will come when she will not want me seeing this and I'd also imagine that time will come long before I am willing to allow it.
At this stage though you are 20. You're an adult and assuming you behave like one, your mother should be keeping out of your private life. A good, open relationship is not about snooping or telling each other every single thing.
It's about feeling comfortable with telling someone about things that are private but that you choose to disclose.

I am very close to my siblings and I wouldn't tell them everything about myself. Some things are private and you should respect that but so should your mother.

I think you need to have a chat to her. Tell her you're a grown woman now and you would love for you to have a close relationship but that you need her to respect your privacy. Change your passwords.
But you need to also respect her as an adult and not be using her phone etc.

If you aren't already, pay rent to her. Handle your finances well. Get credit for your phone. Give her no cause to worry or to feel that you still need to be parented.
If you're concerned about her safety then ask her to please let you know where she's going or at least let someone know.
If you disapprove of what she is doing, well to be honest, unless she confides in you that she isn't happy with her behaviour then I'd keep schtum.

Maybe in time it's something that she might open up to you about. Maybe not. Perhaps she sees nothing wrong with it. But you can't hold other people to your own standards.

Toots

OP just in relation to your concern about your mum's mental health - was she given a diagnosis of anything when she had her psychotic episode? Is she on medication, and if so, is she taking it? I think you need to sit down with her and talk with her from that point of view, that you notice a pattern of behaviour similar to what preceded her last period of being unwell and that you're worried about her. Don't get into an argument about whether her behaviour is right or wrong, don't judge her. It's her business whoever she decides to have sex with (in the same way as it's your business whoever you have sex with) but what would worry me about the way she's going about it is that she's meeting complete strangers and has no idea who they really are - personally I think that's fairly risky.

Emme

OP, your mother's private life is her own business but I understand your concern if you think she is putting herself in danger. Does she ever bring any of these people home? If so she may be putting you both in danger and this needs to be addressed. NSA hook ups may suit your mother at the moment but that doesn't say they are for everyone.

Keep your bank and other details private from now on regardless of whether she brings people home or not. You need to stand on your own two feet and not get dragged into a codependent relationship with your mother. You need to move forward with your own life. Your mother is an adult and you are not her keeper.

If you are seriously worried about her health (2 bottles a wine a day is a lot for anyone) counselling might help you cope better and detach from the situation. You may benefit from counselling regardless.

Your mother's lifestyle does not sound healthy but she is an adult and it is up to her what she does. If you are concerned that she is putting herself in danger is there another relative you can talk to?

LegacyUser

In response to both Toots and Emme, that's the concern I was trying to get across. I don't think I articulated very well that I have no problem with her dating and meeting people; I've tried to encourage it!

The fact is that I'm scared about her meeting and sleeping with total strangers from the internet, and yes, she's bringing these people home as well as meeting them in hotels. Tonight I'm going out and she just went to get her hair blowdried and changed the sheets on her bed; funny that.

They could literally be anyone and I tried to explain that to her yesterday but all she would say is "I would never put you or me in any danger" and I asked her if she could just tell me where she was going, etc. from a safety point of view and she's just not listening to or taking on my concerns which I feel is pretty unfair as I'm honestly just trying to look out for her.

She has been to counselling before, as have I, for other reasons over the years, I personally never felt it very beneficial but when she was doing it I think it really helped her. The problem is there's only a certain amount of counselling you can receive on the HSE and we can't afford for private therapy as she doesn't work...

Our family is pretty fractious and we don't live near any of them anyway so I don't have any relatives to talk to about this... I'm going to try to talk to my boyfriend about it over the next few days but it's going to be a lot for him to take on as well and I don't want to overwhelm him.

LegacyUser

If you say your mother doesn't work, do you think there is a chance these men are paying her for sex?And that thus is the reason for her doing it.
Also-that is without doubt, a significant alcohol dependence -unhealthy and expensive too.

I'd be wary about telling your boyfriend -if he tells even 1other person, this could potentially change your relationship with your mother forever.

Emme

lying_mum wrote: »

In response to both Toots and Emme, that's the concern I was trying to get across. I don't think I articulated very well that I have no problem with her dating and meeting people; I've tried to encourage it!

The fact is that I'm scared about her meeting and sleeping with total strangers from the internet, and yes, she's bringing these people home as well as meeting them in hotels. Tonight I'm going out and she just went to get her hair blowdried and changed the sheets on her bed; funny that.

They could literally be anyone and I tried to explain that to her yesterday but all she would say is "I would never put you or me in any danger" and I asked her if she could just tell me where she was going, etc. from a safety point of view and she's just not listening to or taking on my concerns which I feel is pretty unfair as I'm honestly just trying to look out for her.

She has been to counselling before, as have I, for other reasons over the years, I personally never felt it very beneficial but when she was doing it I think it really helped her. The problem is there's only a certain amount of counselling you can receive on the HSE and we can't afford for private therapy as she doesn't work...

Our family is pretty fractious and we don't live near any of them anyway so I don't have any relatives to talk to about this... I'm going to try to talk to my boyfriend about it over the next few days but it's going to be a lot for him to take on as well and I don't want to overwhelm him.

If your mum is bringing total randomers home then you have a right to be concerned. If they are strangers she has no idea who they are and she is putting you both at risk.

Make sure your bank details are private and any valuables you have are locked away when you are not in the house and also when you are in bed. Change all your passwords and keep them private. Do you have a lock on your bedroom door? You need it because if those jokers stay the night when you are there they might just decide to barge in on you for the hell of it. I presume they are all around your mother's age but some men that age have a preference for younger women if they can get them.

Keep an eye out for money and other things disappearing from your house, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two of these NSA gentlemen :rolleyes: was lightfingered.

Perhaps your mother wants you to move out of the house and this is her way of letting you know. This would not be a bad move on your part but I understand your concern for your mother. Again only she can help herself at the end of the day. Be there for her as much as you can but you have to get on with your own life.

Talk to your boyfriend about it -he may well be horrified that your mother is putting both herself and you in danger.

I'm not being harsh, but if your mother can afford to get her hair blowdried for NSA encounters and she can afford to drink two bottles of wine a night she can afford to save up for counselling. Some counsellors do a sliding rate for people who aren't working.

syklops

You go on about your mothers sex life and then you go "And then I decided to have an abortion and didnt tell her". As if you decided to make some toast. Hardly like and like?

Big Bag of Chips

lying_mum wrote: »

I told her it was my decision and I was fine with it and was more hurt that she would snoop like that instead of just asking me..

Yet, only last weekend you went and did the exact same to her.

I don't know any parents who discuss their sex life with their children. You said you never asked about these men in the house out if embarrassment, I think your mother never sat you down and explained it to you out of equal embarrassment! How do you think that conversation would have started?!

I don't know if I agree with your mam having various different men to the house when you were younger and at home. I think it gives a bad example, but then again I'm not your mam. And just because it's something I could never see myself doing, doesn't mean your mam is/was wrong for doing it.

Your mam is a grown woman who has sex. Nothing wrong with that, and honestly, there's no need for her to discuss it with you... You sound quite judgemental of your mam... Even commenting on the fact she wore makeup!

It is difficult as a child becoming an adult to realise that their mother is not just your mother! I think you can advise your mam to always be careful, but you can't or shouldn't think that she shouldn't be meeting men. Same way as she can advise you to always be careful but can't really stop you going out and sleeping with men.

I think you now need to draw up some adult/adult boundaries. You don't snoop on her, if you don't want her snooping on you. Change your passwords, stop giving her access to your bank accounts (Why does she need it?)

And accept that apart from both of you letting the other one know that you worry about them, you don't need to be made aware of the more intimate details of each others' lives.

up for anything

I have a friend who is a swinger and uses those websites. She's been doing it for a couple of years now and has never had a bad experience. The people on them are adults and know what they are on there for. If someone is dodgy they aren't long about being found out and then no one will touch them with a barge pole. When someone meets another they 'rate' each other - I can't remember the exact terminology but it's a bit like being a good seller on ebay and you can see who has done the rating and ask them for more information. It is probably a lot safer than getting pissed and taking home a randomer from a pub or nightclub so I wouldn't get too bent out of shape over it, OP.

Xterminator

Hi OP

Two wrongs dont make a right.

You need to look at yourself and your behaviour and make sure you are above reproach. I honestly feel that the behaviours disclosed in your post painted you in an unflattering light.

Given that you are not a shining example of best practise, do you really think you should be correcting your mother? Do you think that its a social norm in ireland for parents to discuss their sex life and choices with their children? Do you feel you have a veto on when your mother brings home?

I apologise if the above sounds harsh. im not saying your wrong for having concerns; but that perhaps you can consider carefully what boundaries you should observe.

Im not given advice to your mother, just to you.

Regards
X

Emme

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi OP

Two wrongs dont make a right.

You need to look at yourself and your behaviour and make sure you are above reproach. I honestly feel that the behaviours disclosed in your post painted you in an unflattering light.

Given that you are not a shining example of best practise, do you really think you should be correcting your mother? Do you think that its a social norm in ireland for parents to discuss their sex life and choices with their children? Do you feel you have a veto on when your mother brings home?

I apologise if the above sounds harsh. im not saying your wrong for having concerns; but that perhaps you can consider carefully what boundaries you should observe.

Im not given advice to your mother, just to you.

Regards
X

I hope the OP isn't being judged her for certain decisions she made.

Her mother is entitled to do what she likes but my main concern would be that bringing strangers into the home is putting them both at risk of theft and physical danger. It doesn't matter if she meets them off the street, a bar or from a so-called rate swingers website, the mother is still exposing them both to danger. Having said that, apparently most sexual assaults are carried out by somebody who is known to the attacker.