Bus driver tore up Leap Card

Classic Rock Man

Hey, a bit off topic but:

Today, the bus (75 to dun laoghaire) driver bent and tore my card into several pieces after he snatched it off my hand, because it didnt work on the right side validator. It still had money in it and he didn't give me a reason as to why he did it. On the way out he closed the door on my foot and told me to "get off the bus" when I looked back at him.

Is this legal? Like honestly the guy was being a hard ass for no reason. I already called Dublin Bus and I want something done. They have this on camera and closing the door on my foot counts as assault.

He behaved in an extremely unprofessional manner and I want satisfaction. The same bus driver got a slap from an asian lady last year too, bit of foreshadowing.

StreetLight

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

Hey, a bit off topic but:

Today, the bus (75 to dun laoghaire) driver bent and tore my card into several pieces after he snatched it off my hand, because it didnt work on the right side validator. It still had money in it and he didn't give me a reason as to why he did it. On the way out he closed the door on my foot and told me to "get off the bus" when I looked back at him.

Is this legal? Like honestly the guy was being a hard ass for no reason. I already called Dublin Bus and I want something done. They have this on camera and closing the door on my foot counts as assault.

He behaved in an extremely unprofessional manner and I want satisfaction. The same bus driver got a slap from an asian lady last year too, bit of foreshadowing.

Very off-topic.
I wouldn't have thought it was possible to tear up a plastic Leap Card.

Classic Rock Man

He bent it until the card cracked into 4 pieces

LXFlyer

Well I would suggest that this really isn't something that anyone here can help you with.

You need to pursue it with Dublin Bus as that is frankly bizarre.

L1011

Dublin Bus for the driver complaint, Leap for a replacement card as card damaged by an agent of theirs, Guards for the foot/door thing although you may have trouble convincing one to take it seriously.

Pursue DB on the complaint to the very end, they do need proper complaints and disciplinary proceedings before they can get rid of useless muppets.

Cookie_Monster

make sure you demand DB keep the footage from the incident before they overwrite it.

Sheldons Brain

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

make sure you demand DB keep the footage from the incident before they overwrite it.

Quoting Data Protection act would be helpful here, as videos are included.
Ask for the video showing you on the bus.

LuckyLloyd

I don't believe you fwiw.

monument

Sounds like both issues are worth reporting to the Gardai -- as described, it sounds like it could be classed as criminal damage and assualt, and both together might warent their attention more than any one of them alone.

Worth also telling the NTA about what happened -- http://www.transportforireland.ie/contact/

AlekSmart

monument wrote: »

Sounds like both issues are worth reporting to the Gardai -- as described, it sounds like it could be classed as criminal damage and assualt, and both together might warent their attention more than any one of them alone.

Worth also telling the NTA about what happened -- http://www.transportforireland.ie/contact/

Sometimes it's worth a pause for reflection,when dealing with accounts of incidents and occurences...

"As described",just about covers it...it may be something...but equally,there is a possibility it may be nothing.

Unless one actually witnessed the incident and can corroborate any of it,I'd counsel Caution,particularly as there appear to be some "historic" observations from a year ago also...

Is this legal? Like honestly the guy was being a hard ass for no reason. I already called Dublin Bus and I want something done. They have this on camera and closing the door on my foot counts as assault.

He behaved in an extremely unprofessional manner and I want satisfaction. The same bus driver got a slap from an asian lady last year too, bit of foreshadowing.

I hope we'll be updated on the Report to BAC...or The Gardai.

RayM

If what you're saying is true - and you're leaving absolutely nothing out - would I be right in assuming that you're either very young or look very young? On a few occasions in the past, I've witnessed bus drivers behaving abysmally towards younger customers - presumably on the grounds that they're less likely to complain.

Classic Rock Man

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't believe you fwiw.

What possible reason would I have to lie about this?
My college-mates were with me at the time it happened and they surely got this on camera aswell.

Classic Rock Man

AlekSmart wrote: »

Sometimes it's worth a pause for reflection,when dealing with accounts of incidents and occurences...

"As described",just about covers it...it may be something...but equally,there is a possibility it may be nothing.

Unless one actually witnessed the incident and can corroborate any of it,I'd counsel Caution,particularly as there appear to be some "historic" observations from a year ago also...



I hope we'll be updated on the Report to BAC...or The Gardai.

They said that they'll report this to their manager and will contact me...last week. No correspondence from them since. I doubt they're going to do anything about it tbh.

Grab All Association

https://www.facebook.com/DublinBusNews

Post a link to this thread on there. Its bad publicity for them and they will take it seriously. What you should have done is blocked the bus prevented it from moving called Gardai and reported the assault and criminal damage. The Gardai could have seized the cctv before DB had a chance to wipe it. Oh and the second they received your complaint I bet they did

AlanG

Was it the correct card for you or a child one?

solomafioso

No harm tweeting to their accounts to ensure publicity / follow up.

https://twitter.com/Dublinbususers

or

https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews

In case you get the run around by privately contacting them. Please ensure that you're civil and don't post anything that you might regret (or might go against you!).

irish_goat

Was the card already damaged? Did he let you on for free after breaking it into pieces?

anncoates

Are you leaving something out of the story like an argument or something you did or said or did you have the wrong card or somebody else's? Seems weird that the guy would grab your card and eject you from the bus just because your card didn't work.

And closing the door on your foot is not assault.

LuckyLloyd

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

What possible reason would I have to lie about this?
My college-mates were with me at the time it happened and they surely got this on camera aswell.

I have no idea why people lie or exaggerate stories like this tbh, but it happens everyday of the week. People also get confused or misremember or simply perceive things incorrectly.

I have a hard time believing a Dublin Bus driver would put their job in jeapordy for no good reason though. If your complaint is genuine by all means pursue it to the full extent however.

circadian

irish_goat wrote: »

Was the card already damaged? Did he let you on for free after breaking it into pieces?

He was told to get off the bus.

Red Alert

Just for the record the automatic door on a bus is not that strong at all, even without any edge-detectors (which I believe the newer ones might have).

WomanSkirtFan8

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

Hey, a bit off topic but:

Today, the bus (75 to dun laoghaire) driver bent and tore my card into several pieces after he snatched it off my hand, because it didnt work on the right side validator. It still had money in it and he didn't give me a reason as to why he did it. On the way out he closed the door on my foot and told me to "get off the bus" when I looked back at him.

Is this legal? Like honestly the guy was being a hard ass for no reason. I already called Dublin Bus and I want something done. They have this on camera and closing the door on my foot counts as assault.

He behaved in an extremely unprofessional manner and I want satisfaction. The same bus driver got a slap from an asian lady last year too, bit of foreshadowing.

Asbolutely pursue it. That is as others have already said could be possible criminal damage and assault. It sounds like this bus driver is a complete asshole and needs to be dealt with. The fact that he got a slap off someone already could be an indication that this happens with him on a possible regular basis.

But as I've already said, deffinately pursue it and be prepared to go the whole way if necessary.

ordinary_girl

Red Alert wrote: »

Just for the record the automatic door on a bus is not that strong at all, even without any edge-detectors (which I believe the newer ones might have).

This. A bus driver (accidentally) closed the door on me when I was waiting to board because he didn't see me (there was someone taller than me on front). The doors automatically opened when I got caught in them. It doesn't hurt or anything, it's just a bit annoying. This happened on a new bus, if that makes a difference.

happywithlife

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

Hey, a bit off topic but:

Today, the bus (75 to dun laoghaire) driver bent and tore my card into several pieces after he snatched it off my hand, because it didnt work on the right side validator. It still had money in it and he didn't give me a reason as to why he did it. On the way out he closed the door on my foot and told me to "get off the bus" when I looked back at him.

Is this legal? Like honestly the guy was being a hard ass for no reason. I already called Dublin Bus and I want something done. They have this on camera and closing the door on my foot counts as assault.

He behaved in an extremely unprofessional manner and I want satisfaction. The same bus driver got a slap from an asian lady last year too, bit of foreshadowing.

What juicy details have you omitted?
Because it's highly unlikely anyone would put their job at risk and just randomly tear up a plastic card - were you giving lip?
As for the door closing on your foot = assault --- FFS get over it you're a big boy now (you mention being in college in a later post)
You also mention later your college mates may have recorded it on their phones - how had they time to do this? In my mind this indicates either it was a prolonged incident - which to me means you WERE giving cheek for it to go on for so long or it was a preplanned set up for entertainment purposes. I don't see how they'd have co-incidentally recorded a bus door closing on your foot.

dublinman1990

You did say that you were with your college mates while boarding your bus. Were you using either a purple Student Travelcard or a blue student leap card or was it an Green Adult leap card while paying your fare? Did you have any prepaid tickets preloaded onto the card because some of the prepaid tickets are no longer in paper form.

You can send a tweet to leap card on Twitter or send an email to the Student Travelcard people to let them know how much credit was in your card and also to help you get a replacement card. Do you know how much credit was in your leap card before the driver broke it?

https://twitter.com/LeapCard

http://www.studentleapcard.ie/contact-us

Also you need to tell DB, NTA and the Gardai your details of the incident including the location (including bus stop number if needed for DB), the bus route number and the arrival time of the bus at your stop.

You can post these details here so it can help you back up your story if you like.

Jesus Wept

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I don't believe you fwiw.

That sounds like a you problem.

Grab All Association

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I have no idea why people lie or exaggerate stories like this tbh, but it happens everyday of the week. People also get confused or misremember or simply perceive things incorrectly.

I have a hard time believing a Dublin Bus driver would put their job in jeapordy for no good reason though. If your complaint is genuine by all means pursue it to the full extent however.

2005 Dublin city (a city I hate using public transport in. wet day had no choice) an Indian guy had a disagreement with the driver. Driver tells him he's barred he leaves the bus. Driver turns around the rest of and calls him a ****ing Paki and says they have the country ruined and if he wasn't behind the wheel of that bus he would have kicked the **** out of him. Then he goes on talking to this old racist woman calling Irish women who date African/Pakistani/Indian guys coal burners. I reported it the DOT at the time. Nothing was done about it.

There are rude staff, racists dickheads and total bastards within CIE. The three companies Bus Éireann, Iarnród Éireann and Dublin bus seem to do nothing about it. Btw I know majority of staff in CIE are not like that.

Hilly Bill

The card is yours to do what you want with it and its your property. There is no reason for a driver to take it from you and break it up. If its registered, report it to Leap.

LuckyLloyd

i heart chewy louie wrote: »

That sounds like a you problem.

If:

- his mates recorded it on their phones;
- driver is a regular on particular route;
- driver has been subject to previous such complaints;
- there are witnesses;

An accurate and articulate report to DB, NTA and Gardai will see justice being done. If:

- leapcard was registered;
- complainant is sure of time and stop number;
- Bus tapes are in existence;

Then it just makes it slam dunk.

If his mates caught it on phones and footage shows it as he posted then my intuitive opinion won't matter will it?

dfx-

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

He bent it until the card cracked into 4 pieces

Even then I would've thought that would take a while. Cracked in half maybe but again, a fair bit of effort.

Also the fleet number would be very useful to have I would imagine. I saw a driver be difficult to a number of passengers on a 15A because they didn't get on the 15 in front. One passenger didn't do anything until he got off and took a photograph of the fleet number on the front left corner.

Stella Virgo

find out the depot the bus is operating from.ask to speak to an INSPECTOR .no not waste your time talking to anybody of lesser status in the depot,as it wont be acted on if you do. get the inspectors name.

Classic Rock Man

happywithlife wrote: »

What juicy details have you omitted?
Because it's highly unlikely anyone would put their job at risk and just randomly tear up a plastic card - were you giving lip?
As for the door closing on your foot = assault --- FFS get over it you're a big boy now (you mention being in college in a later post)
You also mention later your college mates may have recorded it on their phones - how had they time to do this?

No, let me backtrack, by cameras I meant the bus cameras, not the people who were with me. I did not give cheek, he snatched my card when I tried it on the left hand side scanner.

ezra_pound

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The card is yours to do what you want with it and its your property. There is no reason for a driver to take it from you and break it up. If its registered, report it to Leap.

No it's not his property.

Grab All Association

ezra_pound wrote: »

No it's not his property.

NTA property.

goingnowhere

Dublin Bus as agents of the NTA can retain a leap card

macroman

Classic Rock Man wrote: »

No, let me backtrack, by cameras I meant the bus cameras, not the people who were with me. I did not give cheek, he snatched my card when I tried it on the left hand side scanner.

Were you using a Student Leap card? Was it current and in date? (was it blue or purple?).

I've witnessed the revenue protection unit doing similar, snapping/punching holes in/confiscating students cards which were out of date and fining the users. Out of date Student cards can still be topped up and loaded with ramblers.

Hilly Bill

ezra_pound wrote: »

No it's not his property.

You bought it so its your property. You can tear it up when you are finished with it if you want.

bennyl10

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You bought it so its your property. You can tear it up when you are finished with it if you want.

It remains property of the NTA at all times.

Vic_08

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You bought it so its your property. You can tear it up when you are finished with it if you want.

Tickets remain the property of the issuer, for Leap that is the NTA with transport operators as their agents.

I have retained (or destroyed for effect) plenty of invalid or fraudulent tickets over the years. It is a perfectly acceptable way of dealing with tickets IF they are being used incorrectly.

With Leap it would be a case of retaining only if being used by the wrong person, can't see any other reason to remove or any reason to disable one. If they are showing as invalid-no credit or loaded ticket then simply refuse travel or request alternative payment.

Hilly Bill

bennyl10 wrote: »

It remains property of the NTA at all times.

No it doesnt, you dont rent a Leap Card and once you finished with it you can bin it if you want. NTA cant come up to me and demand the Leap card back now can they or ask what if done with it.

LXFlyer

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No it doesnt, you dont rent a Leap Card and once you finished with it you can bin it if you want. NTA cant come up to me and demand the Leap card back now can they or ask what if done with it.

For the love of God, just stop digging holes for yourself and, just once, accept that you are wrong.


Leap Card Terms and Conditions (extract):

1.3 The Leap Card is and remains the property of the Authority.


1.4 The Authority reserves the right to prevent the use of, or to withdraw the Leap Card in accordance with section 16 below if it is improperly used or if it is used in a way that is not permitted by the Authority.


16. Withdrawal of the Use of the Card

16.1 The Authority may, in its discretion, at any time and without notice to the Leap Card customer, deactivate, cancel or suspend the right to use a Leap Card or refuse to reissue, renew or replace a Leap Card if we have reason to believe that the Leap Card customer is in breach of 1) these Terms and Conditions and/or 2) any applicable legislation or regulations. In such an event, the Leap Card must be returned to the Authority immediately. The Authority does not accept any liability for the direct or indirect consequences arising from any deactivation, suspension or cancellation of a Leap Card in accordance with these Terms and Conditions.

the Authority is defined as

"The National Transport Authority and its agents or successors"

.

endacl

Hilly Bill wrote: »

No it doesnt, you dont rent a Leap Card and once you finished with it you can bin it if you want. NTA cant come up to me and demand the Leap card back now can they or ask what if done with it.

lxflyer wrote: »

For the love of God, just stop digging holes for yourself and, just once, accept that you are wrong.

No! Keep going! Dig deeper. More funny.

:pac:

Hilly Bill

endacl wrote: »

No! Keep going! Dig deeper. More funny.

:pac:

Im not wrong Its just that they look at it differently

Grandeeod

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Im not wrong Its just that they look at it differently

Go on accept it. CIE is so last century.:D

Larbre34

I'm still wondering how an Asian lady can deliver a slap through a reinforced cab door.

Carawaystick

Leapcard.ie has as the top left link on it's page
"Buy a Leapcard"
clicking on that brings you to this page
https://www.leapcard.ie/en/NavigationPages/CardPurchase.aspx

I'd say if the nta offer to sell you something and have terms saying that they haven't sold it to you, those terms are unfair term as defined in the unfair consumer contracts regulations and are unenforcable.

It is definitely a misleading business practice.

donspeekinglesh

It's the same as "buying" music or e-books online really. It's a purchase when they're taking your money, but a licence if you try to do something they don't like.

Carawaystick

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

It's the same as "buying" music or e-books online really. It's a purchase when they're taking your money, but a licence if you try to do something they don't like.

Both your examples are not physical goods though.

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

Both your examples are not physical goods though.

Software on disc is sold under the same concept.

Carawaystick

MYOB wrote: »

Software on disc is sold under the same concept.

But you own the disk and can sell it if you like