Is it possible to receive Sky/FTA + Saorsat on the one dish?

martco

the aim is that I would like to keep the amount of plant hanging off my gable wall to a minimum

I realise you need a uhf ariel to get Saorview but wondering if I can grab Saorsat with just an extra LNB (and its the same thing) it would be much tidier job

any advice appreciated
ta

Apogee

It's possible but not really advisable in your case. Saorsat is a pared down version of Saorview, so you won't get TV3 or 3e and RTÉ One is still SD on Saorsat.

Why not just put the aerial in the attic?

Thurston?

Saorsat is not the same as Saorview: no TV3 & 3e, & currently still stuck with RTE1 in SD. Not a lot of point going with it if you can get Saorview.

Also, Saorsat + UK channels will require a larger dish than UK alone: 60cm is fine for UK in most of the country; for Saorsat alone, the min. recommended size is 80cm, going up to 100cm in the southwest & far north. Adding an LNB for UK reception to the min. dish size would involve compromises that could affect reception to 1 or both services in adverse conditions, such as heavy rain. So in the areas where a min. 80cm dish is recommended for Saorsat, you'd probably be looking at a min. 90cm for reliable reception of Saorsat + UK, in all weathers.

Depending on the Saorview signal in your area, you might only need a modest aerial installation that could use the same wall brackets as the dish. (Say, T & K brackets, with the dish on the part of the pole between the brackets, & the aerial at the top of the pole.)

martco

thanks for the info
the saorsat does seem inferior, very little info available on it's future too - I get the impression its only there to ensure difficult terrestrial situations get some kind of service rather than anything else...will go with ariel option

one more question, I presume I can combine the lnb and uhf into a diseqc switch at the dish to allow just the one cable into the house or will I have to run a separate coax?

ta

Thurston?

martco wrote: »

... I presume I can combine the lnb and uhf into a diseqc switch at the dish to allow just the one cable into the house

Not a DiSEqC switch, just a combiner with inputs for the relevant frequency bands.

This one can deliver 5 volts DC to the UHF/VHF port, for powering of a masthead amplifier, if needed: triax.com/FindProduct/ProductDetails.aspx?product={5FB14F3B-FC52-41B5-8AC2-4BCF0ED7BEE6}

kooga

this pic is from another thread.

https://www.satellitetv.ie/saorsat_complete_kit/saorsat_freesat_dish

martco

thanks a mil for the info

so...just have a couple of more questions if anyone up for it? and my shopping list will be done

1. will one LNB suffice if I want to pick up both Astra2 + Eurobird1 or will I need a separate one for each?
2. house is in Glenageary....is a 60cm sat dish the smallest I can dare fit or is there potential to go smaller?
3. if I go for regular Saorview (as opposed to Saorsat) I'm not confident the attic cavity is up to hosting a DVB-T UHF aerial for the Saorview, in that case I think one of these active compact type DVB-T aerials (e.g. Goobay DVB-T DOA-50) would work at rear of house in separate location to the Sat dish, house located @10km from 3rock with roughly line of sight but it is urban area, any issues?
4. In the interests of keeping the cabling down & going off what Thruston? reply there above, if I end up having to have an external DVB-T aerial what I'll need is a Mast combiner for DVB-T/DVB-S2 with associated breakout box inside the house.....for each and every receiver I'd hope to install in the house (e.g. multiroom) correct?
5. as the main receiver for the house I'd thought about a VU+ Solo2 (with additional DVB-T USB stick + wifi USB stick option) to combine in the Saorview, does that work well? or would the VU+ DUO with the DVB-T and DVB-S2 cards be a better bet for the sake of the extra €140ish?

The Cush

1. One LNB for the 2 satellites, same satellite location.

2. I fitted a 60cm dish for my sister in Lucan last year, no problems, wouldn't go smaller.

3. That close to Three Rock you may be able to use a small attic aerial for Saorview

4. Combining a Saorview and satellite feed to each room using a sat/terrestrial combiners could be a bit messy, a combiner would be required on a sat cable to each room with a splitter at the TV point. A better option might be to feed the aerial directly to each room using a distribution amp, no combiners or splitters required or a multswitch and Quattro LNB might be an easier option with the multiswitch combining the sat and aerial feeds for distribution to each room with a splitter at the TV point.

byte

Whilst I would prefer seperate cables for DVB-T and DVB-S, Inverto do have a quad LNB that also accomodates a UHF input.

http://www.satworld.ie/inverto-pro-quad-terrestrial-lnb.html

The Cush

byte wrote: »

Whilst I would prefer seperate cables for DVB-T and DVB-S, Inverto do have a quad LNB that also accomodates a UHF input.

It was mentioned here previously that the terrestrial loss thru the LNB can be quiet high.

Thurston?

martco wrote: »

... In the interests of keeping the cabling down & going off what Thruston? reply there above, if I end up having to have an external DVB-T aerial what I'll need is a Mast combiner for DVB-T/DVB-S2 with associated breakout box inside the house.....for each and every receiver I'd hope to install in the house (e.g. multiroom)

There's no such thing as a DVB-T aerial or combiner: only aerials or combiners that work with certain frequency bands.

If you want satellite multiroom with only 1 cable from the dish, you'll need 'non-traditional' methods such as Unicable/SCR or fibre, mentioned in the last post to your other thread.

martco

ta Thurston? I can see that now...

I just realised that apart from that single coax into the attic cavity there's also a CAT5e....that might even offer another way....it's going to be approx 30M run from the dish/aerial to the cavity so maybe I could simply use passive balun's like these:
http://www.ebay.ie/itm/CAT5-BNC-Video-Balun-Pair-Lead-RJ45-CCTV-Video-Balun-/181255767962?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Video_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2a33af879a

or active tx/rx like this:
http://www.dipol.ie/4-channel-active-video-balun-etrix-4va-t-transmitter.html

think some experimentation on the way

thanks for all the advice btw

Thurston?

The signal from the aerial or dish is at far higher frequencies than baseband video, way above what cat5 or cat6 can handle.

martco

I think I may have found the product I need for my cabling conundrum.....is this the concept you are referring to "unicable"?

http://www.inverto.tv/guide/?p=12

so I'll need something like this item:

http://www.digitalo.de/products/619543/Inverto-SAT-Multischalter-Unicable-BLACK-Unicable-Eingaenge-Multischalter-5-4-SAT-1-terrestrisch.html?ref=19&products_model=A766591&utm_source=idealo&utm_medium=CPC&utm_campaign=A766591

plus a suitable unicable LNB
plus Sat receivers in the rooms that each have ability to set to the appropriate band
splitters

Thurston?

The Unicable multiswitch in your 1st link (8 user channels = 8 satellite tuners) is fed from a standard quattro LNB, so 4 cables from the dish (& has a terrestrial aerial connection too). So only useful from the POV of cabling after the distribution location.

Unicable LNBs that I've looked at (Inverto & Triax) only offer 4 user channels on the unicable output + 1 or 2 legacy outputs, so that's a maximum of 6 tuners & obviously, using the legacy outputs means extra cables from the dish.

You're aware a satellite dish doesn't have to be high up? Only needs a view of the relevant part of the sky & to be kept out of harm's way. Maybe a mounting location could be found that would cut down on cabling.

martco

thanks Thurston?

my problem stems from the fact that it's one of these new techno "german" style passive houses
I can't just drill holes in the wall or penetrate the roof, and worse still my attic cavity is unusual, not easily reached even if I could drill the walls.....I could I SO I have to make do with the service point built in originally (I have 1x available coax fed from an outside wallbox to my difficult to reach attic cavity also have a cat5e but I gather that's useless in this scenario)
in fairness if UPC had shown up that would have worked out nicely but they didn't thus the satellite dish project!

one interesting aspect of my house is that the soffits have access to the mains, so at the location of the dish and DVB-t I was thinking to use one of these unicable switches there outdoors under the soffit or inside some ip65 box to concentrate the various inputs, that would allow me to run a single coax about 15m under the soffit and down the outside wall to that presupplied outside UPC wallbox coax run which now travels another 15m max through the conduit inside the house and reaching the destination point inside my difficult to reach attic cavity - all the co-ax drops to the rooms in the house (3) start from here

Thurston?

martco wrote: »

SO I have to make do with the service point built in originally (I have 1x available coax fed from an outside wallbox to my difficult to reach attic cavity ...

Well, if you need to feed more than 2 satellite tuners over a single coax. cable, you're pretty much limited to the Unicable option. (2 tuners can be fed over 1 cable via a stacker/destacker, works with any receiver but needs top quality cable.)

I don't know if you can pull in more cables or maybe replace 1 of what's there with fibre that could run from the attic cavity to the dish but then if there is only 1 coax. cable from the attic to each TV point ...

I suppose you need to decide just what kind of receivers you want: twin-tuners are needed for full record/watch flexibility (same applies to terrestrial but all the tuning is done at the receiver, so no need for multiple cables all the way to the aerial or any kind of frequency shifting or switching arrangement &, terrestrial & satellite signals can share a cable). I take it you're not in an area that has UK terrestrial reception?

martco

nah its south Dublin, Glenageary area
I know it's expensive (and even though I really really fancied building a main Linux pc-based receiver/media server myself) I just know my mrs will get into a tangle with anything more than a simple setup so I think I'm going to lay out for that VU+Solo2 box and add in my own hdd, usb wifi stick and get one of those USB dvb-t sticks for it - my kids stream everything in their lives already and seems the VU+ has that facility too so think it's the one...anyways compared to paying out for Sky's service the investment will be a good un I reckon...
the other 2 rooms get more basic stb's when/if needed

Thurston?

martco wrote: »

nah its south Dublin, Glenageary area

Forgot you mentioned that. Yes, in ROI in these days of free-to-air satellite, UK terrestrial reception is only worth bothering with in some locations near the NI border, where you can get all the Freeview channels at satellite levels of reliability.

Apogee

martco wrote: »

one interesting aspect of my house is that the soffits have access to the mains, so at the location of the dish and DVB-t I was thinking to use one of these unicable switches there outdoors under the soffit or inside some ip65 box to concentrate the various inputs, that would allow me to run a single coax about 15m under the soffit and down the outside wall to that presupplied outside UPC wallbox coax run which now travels another 15m max through the conduit inside the house and reaching the destination point inside my difficult to reach attic cavity - all the co-ax drops to the rooms in the house (3) start from here

If your internal cabling is restricted and you decide to go for the unicable route, then as Thurston mentions, you have a problem in that Unicable LNBFs support only 4 tuners. If you want >4 tuners with Unicable, you need a unicable multiswitch setup - ideally one with terrestrial input like the following;

http://www.megasat.tv/en/home-tv/verteiltechnik/unicable-scr-5-8

http://kreiling-technologien.de/index.php?id=69&detail=273

In the above cases, you will need to have a Quattro LNBF on your dish, and run 4x coax to the multiswitch (under the sofit), along with a 5th coax from your aerial. The multiswitch "combines" these 5 inputs into a single coax out which can be split to 8x Unicable tuners.

Thurston?

martco wrote: »

I think I'm going to lay out for that VU+Solo2 box and add in my own hdd, usb wifi stick and get one of those USB dvb-t sticks for it - my kids stream everything in their lives already and seems the VU+ has that facility too so think it's the one...anyways compared to paying out for Sky's service the investment will be a good un I reckon...
the other 2 rooms get more basic stb's when/if needed

After a look at the Vu+ Solo2 manual, I don't see any mention of Unicable support in the 'Configuring Satellite Connection' part.

It has a selectable internal loopthrough for the tuners, so will give some twin-tuner functionality from a single feed: if you are recording a channel & want to watch another, you will be limited to one that's in the same frequency & polarity 'block', not just the same transponder, as you would with a single tuner machine.

And of course if you want to add more receivers later, then it's back to the drawing board ...

Apogee

The most popular Vix images for Vu boxes support various Unicable configurations.

Thurston?

Yes, the manual seems to only deal with the 'simple' configuration mode.

martco

http://www.vuplus-community.net/

discussions on this receiver and the unicable question here, seems to be do-able
but in typical fashion I've gotten sidetracked in whether VIX or BH images are better....Blur v Oasis....instead of concentrating on the basics first hahahaha

I might try to document all this and post after I get my kit running to help eejits like me get going in the future

ta