Training Contract

Hcirloc

Hi there,

I know this may be a topic exhausted elsewhere on this forum but nevertheless.
I am wondering what the market is for solicitor training contracts these days. Are the big 5 a closed shop for those from a non-law background? What other firms pay PPC fees? Just how difficult is it to get a contract with a commercial firm?

I am contemplating taking 4 FE-1's this coming April and the remaining 4 in October. What is the likelihood of securing a training contract at a firm willing to pay PPC fees?

I have heard stories of guys coming from a similar background to myself landing contracts at the first time of applying. On the other hand I have heard stories of people with Law degrees and Master's not getting a look in.

I am coming from an economics/finance background with a degree and masters from a good university. I have also a couple of years work experience in an Investment Management environment. My aim is to work in a commercial environment most likely in Banking/Finance/Funds law.

Hopefully some of you (who are not sick of answering these type of q's) can help me out!?

Thanks

chops018

I have been interviewing in plenty of places over the past couple of months for traineeships. Mostly medium size commercial law firms, and mostly I was unsuccessful after I interviewed, but I was always told on feedback that I was in the top 3 and just barley lost out on an offer. Anyway I got offered a traineeship by a couple of places but I had to turn them down because:

1. They weren't going to pay PPC fees.
2. They weren't going to even pay me a wage while in PPC.

I didn't mind number one so much as I realise these days most firms outside the top 5-10 won't pay your fees. But regarding number two I find it horrible that they wouldn't pay the law society guideline while in Blackhall for a trainee who previously worked in the office before commencing PPC.

It seems there are a few traineeships floating about in medium sized commercial firms these days but be prepared to be able to have up to 20k behind you for fees and support during PPC. If I was being paid a wage while there I would have sucked up the low salary and tried to get a loan for the fees and used the rest of the salary for support.

Outside the top 5-10 it looks like you will have to get a loan of some sort to pay your way through. Or have a rich family who will support you.

It is getting better as I remember in 2009 I graduated law and there was nothing to be seen, I couldn't even get in anywhere doing free work experience around my town. Went back and did a Masters and passed the FE1's, did 3 months free work, and I finished a 9 month internship in August. Following all this I think I've had nearly 20 interviews since then, for traineeships, legal assistant jobs, jobs in banking/legal departments.

So law is definitively on the rise. However, you will see most of these positions are very low paid.

Plus take note that the FE1's aren't easy, especially being from a non law background like yourself. You're looking at 1-2 years to get all 8, however this may give you time to intern at one of the top 5 (something which I never tried to do), and secure a place on their traineeship programme with paid fees, good salary etc.

You sound like you have some good experience from commercial areas albeit the other side of things. And the direction and drive to get into the commercial law sphere, this will help you with the top 5.

If it's what you really want to do, and money isn't a huge block, then get doing the FE1's and try get experience in a commercial firm. Easier said than done as you will be looking at working for min wage at most I reckon.

I love law, but I am questioning choosing it as a career. It is very hard to get qualified if you don't have the money behind you for 3-4 years, or you're good enough and interested to get into the top 5 and work every hour under the sun doing menial work for most of it (I heard).

Hcirloc

Thanks for the info.

Anybody else want to comment on the prospects of an economics grad with the fe1s behind him.

Any firms that are more likely to hire someone from this background?

Sala

Hcirloc wrote: »

Thanks for the info.

Anybody else want to comment on the prospects of an economics grad with the fe1s behind him.

Any firms that are more likely to hire someone from this background?

In my opinion, thing have improved vastly this year. I see loads of ads going up for trainees - last year I finally got a training contract after sending 300+ speculative CVs as there hadn't be a job advertised in months. The number of trainees went up this year as well. I had to pay my own fees etc (family law isn't as lucrative!) but from going to blackhall a lot of people (myself included) are not law grads. I did get the impression the top 5 hire recent law grads mainly, but maybe I'm wrong. Economics / finance is an excellent degree to get into a commercial firm and I really don't think you would be at a disadvantage. In fact a few people I know were hired on the back of fund/banking experience and ended up mainly in those departments

chops018

Sala wrote: »

In my opinion, thing have improved vastly this year. I see loads of ads going up for trainees.

Just on this.

Yes, there are loads of ads going up for trainees. But, they are mostly extremely low paid, with no help towards fee's, even some I've interviewed for have been Jobbridge for the first 9 months to "see what you're like", I've already done a Jobbridge role they should see this on my CV and discard mine if they want someone on this scheme.

A commercial law firm offered me a traineeship but I had to refuse as they weren't going to pay any of my fees or any wages whilst in Blackhall. I may be wrong but good luck in getting a loan these days without a steady income.

It is picking up. But it is still grim if you have no money behind you.

Firms have more work, but they don't have the money to pay trainee's. I interviewed in another, quite large, commercial firm this week for a traineeship and he was saying that they could do with hiring another conveyancing Solicitor but that it is hard to get one with experience. And if you do find one with experience they have 5+ years and are demanding huge wages which firms can't pay yet.

NoQuarter

You'll do well with your investment management experience. Most of the top 10 firms have funds practices, just check the legal 500 to find out which ones exactly.

Go for the internships first, if you're getting offered internships in the top firms, then you are looking good. Make sure to play up the finance/funds experience in your CV and application form.

Also consider one of the law society's (or elsewhere) legal diplomas in finance law/funds law/commercial law.

Anyway, your first port of call should be to make a list of the commercial firms and then find out when they start taking applications for the summer internships, I think its jan-march. get on one of them and you know youll do well in the training contract interviews.

You have a long road in front either way.

solarplexus

I passed my FE 1's at the worst possible time back in 2010.. when there was nothing happening. I eventually secured a training contract but had to work for 1 year prior to attending Blackhall for no wages. I then completed PPC 1 and secured a paid training contract.

I would advise that you just accept a training contract to get your foot in the door... pay or no pay.. get some experience under your belt and then you will become more sought after.

Things are definitely improving in the legal area..

crystalmice

The top 5 firms do have a large number of law grads as trainees, but someone from a economics / finance background like yourself certainly wouldnt be at a disadvantage. The fact you have a different but very relevant background would almost certainly help you get as far as the crucial interview stage. Also, plenty of trainees are in late 20's / early thirties, and their prior work experience (in aviation leasing, trading, accounting, tax etc) was very desirable on hiring.

The top 5 firms take over 100 trainees a year between them, so if you can meet the criteria to get in the door to interview you will have a good shot. Two important things: firstly, you realistically need a solid 2.1 to get anywhere with the top 5. Secondly, the only real problem you will have coming from a non-law background is explaining why you are interested in law - you need to come up with a good explanation for the career change to law. Doing some internships or even having dealt with regulatory / legal issues in work will help. Also, while you dont need to do the FE1s before you apply to top 5 firms (As they recruit a few years in advance typically) it probably would be a good idea to do the first four, to further show a real commitment to moving over to law. As others have suggested, a law society diploma in funds law or finance law would also help, but I certainly dont think you need to do one to have a chance.

Best of luck!