Ultimate cell HHO conversion anyone using it?

Sam Kade

I know that it isn't supposed to work but did anyone get the the fuel cell in their car from this crowd? Just to see the results if any. Spare the lectures on how it doesn't work

Chimaera

It doesn't work so why would any sane person waste money on it? These systems have been debunked so many times by now.

Sam Kade

Chimaera wrote: »

It doesn't work so why would any sane person waste money on it? These systems have been debunked so many times by now.

I'm just wondering if anyone used it, they say it cuts emissions reduces oil changes government approved etc.

gallag

Don't listen to the non believers! ! probably paid by the government to halt progress! !! This really actually works! !! Also I have bridges at half retail price! ! yes half price bridges over here!!!

Chimaera

Sam Kade wrote: »

I'm just wondering if anyone used it, they say it cuts emissions reduces oil changes government approved etc.

They can say what they like about it (they are trying to part you from your cash after all) but there's nothing to back up their claims if you analyse it carefully. There was a long thread on this crap here a while back if you do a search for it.

Zubeneschamali

Sam Kade wrote: »

I'm just wondering if anyone used it

I'm sure some folks got one and are quite happy with it. I'll stick with my plastic Jesus dashboard magnet: it does everything the Ultimate Cell does, and gets me a week off Purgatory.

jodaw

pure crap an absolute snake oil

derry

Realistically most HHO devices will not return better MPG due to power inputs will equal power gains
However there does seem to be some that work where they use very much less power to make HHO
There does seem to be a rise in fuel octane from HHO which might save car which get sold low octane Stretched fuel in Ireland .For that reason alone if I was buying a newwish petrol car I would get a HHO system .
Feel free to PM me on question on my friends €500 HHO which was a total failure for MPG but does help keep his engine and PTF and oil cleaner

I did this thread on the subject of stretched fuel which included HHO solutions if you want to look it

derry wrote:

HHO technical info
HHO is the name given to breaking water into two components .These components are Hydrogen and oxygen two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen .
This looks like like H2O with energy input ~= H2 + O then add fire or spark ignition to that and it recombines back to H2O

The problem is that to break water apart requires often much more input power than the fuel can give back

Typically with car HHO solutions it requires ~140 watts of power input to get one liter of HHO gas per minute .This one liter of HHO per minute will when it is burned return 4 watts of power per minute .Thats ~35 times more power input that power return ???
It is worse again in that many car will to supply with a alternator require more power than that again to give the ~140 watts power input. Alternators are often only ~5% efficient so it requires 40 watts X 20 times to get i liter of HHO or 35 times 20 power inputs to get this miserable 4 watts of power from the HHO . Some special makes of alternator will be better will be 25% efficient as apposed to 5%

So how can HHO gas return better MPG
Tests done in the USA with NASA using the heat from exhaust of the car instead of alternator to crack methanol into HHO type mix returned a proven ~4% saving in MPG.

So properly done HHO can save MPG

And the rest of the thread explains the HHO solutions which might return better MPG .

Quite honestly the petrol engine efficiency is so crap often less than ~25% and the losses in transmissions that even minor mods have been known to improve MPG . The HHO solution is probably only one element. Adding a HHO ssystem to old engine badly tuned and full of crud and it cleans the engine and you might get a ~30% gain in MPG . Add the same HHO to clean new engine properly tuned and you might see ~5% gain in MPG .Then with new car change tires to low friction narrow width type and get a 10% gain in MPG . So HHO isnt the only MPG saving solution out there . Simply buying acetone and adding that to fuel say 1/2 on full tank has been know to often return ~10% fuel saving .
realisticaly in ROI your far more likly to save money cost per mile or costs per kilometer with getting a good LPG system installed simply because the tax on LPG is less so the fuel often costs less than €1 a liter .If they raise tax on LPG then HHO solutions might work better .Its the tax on fuel that is problem .

Hope that helps

Derry

ironclaw

We asked an Irish outfit to fit one for us (We would have up fronted the cost of course) so we could do a video series on it. They never replied.

Says it all really.

Zubeneschamali

derry wrote: »

I did this thread on the subject of stretched fuel which included HHO solutions if you want to look it

No-one believed a word of it it that thread, either.

ironclaw

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No-one believed a word of it it that thread, either.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68514288&postcount=1

There are far, far bigger things to be concerned about anyway!

derry

ironclaw wrote: »

We asked an Irish outfit to fit one for us (We would have up fronted the cost of course) so we could do a video series on it. They never replied.

Says it all really.

MY experience in the marine trade was when we got calls and inquiry's from these documentary groups that would say they would pay to film something we ended up wasting lots of our time and then these film crowds always backed out of the project always due to cost and then asked us to pay to film it. Often they just wanted to have a lark and a day or two on the water at the boating companies costs and probably never see the documentary films made

When they asked the boss to cough up his money The boss would say to them go shag a billy goat

So after that any time those type of calls or inquiry came in they got put in the bin as time wasters and not real customers .

If I was in the HHO business and I got that type of call I would bin it also.

The logical way to do it is to first fit the HHO device in secret camera see if it works and then if it didn't work or did work go back and try to re film the whole similar process on another customers var or do repeat fitting ..

Equally if I wanted to not pay to film and do the job I might opt to say we will pay get them to invest lots of time in us so that when we said problems money they would choose to cough up. If they did not fall for it it then I could bad mouth them and save the time and energy to bother my rear end to film and test the devices .

Let me guess you rang this outfit at 1 minute to 1pm just before lunch time to get the cheaper phone call rates


Derry

Sam Kade

derry wrote: »

MY experience in the marine trade was when we got calls and inquiry's from these documentary groups that would say they would pay to film something we ended up wasting lots of our time and then these film crowds always backed out of the project always due to cost and then asked us to pay to film it. Often they just wanted to have a lark and a day or two on the water at the boating companies costs and probably never see the documentary films made

When they asked the boss to cough up his money The boss would say to them go shag a billy goat

So after that any time those type of calls or inquiry came in they got put in the bin as time wasters and not real customers .

If I was in the HHO business and I got that type of call I would bin it also.

The logical way to do it is to first fit the HHO device in secret camera see if it works and then if it didn't work or did work go back and try to re film the whole similar process on another customers var or do repeat fitting ..

Equally if I wanted to not pay to film and do the job I might opt to say we will pay get them to invest lots of time in us so that when we said problems money they would choose to cough up. If they did not fall for it it then I could bad mouth them and save the time and energy to bother my rear end to film and test the devices .

Let me guess you rang this outfit at 1 minute to 1pm just before lunch time to get the cheaper phone call rates


Derry

But, think of all the free advertising if the product lived up to it's claims that is

ironclaw

derry wrote: »

Let me guess you rang this outfit at 1 minute to 1pm just before lunch time to get the cheaper phone call rates

I'm not even sure how to answer that

We emailed them, including previous work, and offered to pay for the install. So it was no money down for them. We even would have bonded, had they replied, for the unit.

I can't say why they didn't reply, all equally valid reasons, but nearly every question raised here by board members and by ourselves on email went unanswered. Why? Because frankly its utter BS.

The reason? If it was even remotely possible major car manufacturers would be interested. Then you would say, well its in their interests to keep oil prices high, and to that I say, if it was financially viable independent entrepreneurs would be cashing in on it. I even would myself as this tech interests me.

Zubeneschamali

derry wrote: »

If I was in the HHO business

... no-one would be a bit surprised.

derry

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

... no-one would be a bit surprised.

Well I Am not involved directly with HHO .The closest I came was to look a freinds car where he bought a kits and it didnt work in terms of fuel saving and the back up service replys from the USA vendor were all over the gaff stuff talking about special types of Hydrogen as apposed to normal Hydrogen .Yeah there is for sure some dodgy suppliers out there

However research conducted by countless university and car companies shows that introducing HHO will improve MPG reduce carbon but often increase Nox from the extra hot faster burn.
The problem is that many HHO devices consume more power than what HHO returns and eliminate or even incurr losses to MPG with this problem .
The reduced maintenance schedules might be enough reasons for some to do HHO
I dont have the cash to spare for the HHO products that dont work so look for all info to eliminate the most dodgy one

Unfortunately those who buy the wrong HHO devices that dont work often dont bother to say it online

The classic stunt in HHO propaganda is take old motor full of carbon attach HHO and the result is ~30% improvement due to cleaning the engine innards out
However if they took a clean engine with its MPG and attach the HHO often the changes are small or non existent but the HHO guys wont show you those numbers

Buyer beware

Derry

Technoprisoner

there was a lecture in DIT bolton street from this crowd http://www.waterfuelcell.co.uk/

it was held in conjunction with the IAEA on the 23rd of last month... you may call it what you like but this is a very real fuel source

ironclaw

Technoprisoner wrote: »

there was a lecture in DIT bolton street from this crowd http://www.waterfuelcell.co.uk/

That site has a random logo from NASA on it :pac:

Also was held at 7.30pm in a random room, facilitated by the IAEA (Irish Automotive Engineer Assessors) Which annoys me as a title, as following a brief review of their site, you don't actually have to be an Engineer. A chip in my shoulder granted as I believe 'Engineer' should be a protected terms for those of us that put in the years and achieved Chartered status. Much like 'hygienist' and 'dentist', there is a drastic difference in education.

I would hardly consider it, on the whole, an academic affair.

Technoprisoner

ironclaw wrote: »

That site has a random logo from NASA on it :pac:

Also was held at 7.30pm in a random room, facilitated by the IAEA (Irish Automotive Engineer Assessors) Which annoys me as a title, as following a brief review of their site, you don't actually have to be an Engineer. A chip in my shoulder granted as I believe 'Engineer' should be a protected terms for those of us that put in the years and achieved Chartered status. Much like 'hygienist' and 'dentist', there is a drastic difference in education.

I would hardly consider it, on the whole, an academic affair.

i think you will find that IAEA is in fact http://www.iaea-online.org/

ironclaw

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i think you will find that IAEA is in fact http://www.iaea-online.org/

Site was referring to was the Water Fuel Cell site.

The rest of what I said stands.

Technoprisoner

yeh but what im referring to is that the iaea are credible engineers, which im sure as an engineer you would agree that they are

ironclaw

Technoprisoner wrote: »

yeh but what im referring to is that the iaea are credible engineers, which im sure as an engineer you would agree that they are

I don't know enough about them to make a fair judgement, however I see no listing on their site meaning you have to be an accredited Engineer to join i.e. In line with IEEE, Engineers Ireland or similar. So basically anyone can sit a night course, work in the industry for a year or two and call themselves an 'IAEA Engineer'

Thats not an Engineer.

To be an 'Engineer' you generally have to study 5 years, achieve Master Level university education (To even be considered for Chartered Status) and work in the industry for potentially numerous years and pass Internationally recognised exams. Its a serious profession that people the world over take pride in.

I'm sure the IAEA has some great people, and probably people who are real Engineers, but I have a massive problem with people calling themselves Engineers without the proper credentials. And granted, there is nothing legal or otherwise to stop themselves from doing so but its a slap in the face for those of us that did the grind.

Sorry for the rant.

Firebran

I had a HHO device installed on my van about seven weeks ago from Hydrogen Engine who posts on Board.ie He advised me to run the van for the first four weeks without doing any mpg tests, the reason behind this was to decarbonise the engine which has 230,000 miles. I did this monitoring the amperage and gas production on the HHO device. I eventually carried out a mpg test. First I drove to my local filling station and topped up at a particular pump, I zeroed the mile odometer, then driving for 110 miles on a main road averaging 50 to 65 miles per hour, I came back to the same filling station and the same pump topped up on diesel, paid for the fuel and got a receipt, wrote the mileage on the back of the receipt, done the maths and got a figure of 63.4 mpg. I carried out mpg tests over the following 4 weeks and am averaging 57 mpg, this figure is from back road driving, this is on a vehicle that normally does 47/48 on the main road. HHO technology does work if it done right. Hydrogen Engine has spent about six years sorting out problems with HHO, he also worked with DIT in Dublin spending considerable amount of time and money there also. The technology should work better on petrol. Jackrabbit driving and speeding will negate the effects of HHO. My engine has more torque going up steep hills in fourth gear where a downshift would normally have been required, my van does not have a turbo so there was some acceleration but not that much, emissions should be reduced but I haven't gotten this measured yet.

frozenfrozen

Well we certainly can't argue with that level of water-tight scientific results

ironclaw

Firebran, make and model of your van? Upload a scan of the receipt? 110 miles at 63.4 mpg, means you used 1.735 gallons or 6.567L of diesel. Would this tally with the amount delivered at the pump?

Also, we've made repeated attempts for HHO to shoot a video series with us. No replies made. So I'll ask again here on the thread, get in touch with me if you are willing to have your tech reviewed on camera.

Firebran

Not sure what you're looking for here Ironclaw, posting the receipt wont prove anything. The van is a '01 Seat Inca sdi 1.9 diesel, if you want proof I live in north Wexford, I'll take you for spin to show this is for real - you pay for the diesel.

ironclaw

Firebran wrote: »

Not sure what you're looking for here Ironclaw, posting the receipt wont prove anything. The van is a '01 Seat Inca sdi 1.9 diesel, if you want proof I live in north Wexford, I'll take you for spin to show this is for real - you pay for the diesel.

The receipt proves the amount of diesel you took on board at the end of your test. Which according to your figures and test, should be in the region of 7 litres. No receipt, no delivered amount, no proof.

That is of course if the stop for diesel was at the start and end of your test. If it isn't, then you proved nothing. The SDI has a rating of ~50MPG from factory, you're basically saying you up'd that by 30% to 64-ish. Thats within the realm of possibility by careful driving alone, proves nothing for the case of HHO. If you are suggesting that the 30% is from HHO alone, then you're absolutely kidding yourself.