Leaf at Motorway Speeds

ei9go

While having a test drive, the Nissan dealer said to me that the motorway was not very good for the range of the car.

Simple question:

Nissan leaf charged to 100% and driven at an indicated 120 kph on the motorway.

What will it's range be?

homer911

If you have to ask the question, you are probably looking at the wrong car

Tow

If you want an electric car a Tesla Model S would be more suited to motorway driving.

Dexter1979

ei9go wrote: »

Simple question:

Nissan leaf charged to 100% and driven at an indicated 120 kph on the motorway.

What will it's range be?

Simple question but answering is complicated. Are you driving on the flat? At 20 degrees in beautiful sunshine or in the pooring rain or snow?

Take the Leaf for an extended test drive and find out. I would be surprised if you get 100km out of it at 120kph in good conditions.

reboot

homer911 wrote: »

If you have to ask the question, you are probably looking at the wrong car

Agreed

axe2grind

So out of 5 replies (including this one!) to a question, only one has made an attempt to reply to the specific question.

And yes I've dragged the thread way of topic to which I apologise but the replies comes across as snobbery or the like.

Surely the vast bulk who have EVs or are considering EVs will need to drive on motorway and parhaps get to location quickly and being informed of the likely impact on range at driving at 120kph is useful. IMO it does not deserve the replies here.

The vast bulk of posts here since the dedicated EV forum are useful and I'd like to see it continue in this way.

reboot

axe2grind wrote: »

So out of 5 replies (including this one!) to a question, only one has made an attempt to reply to the specific question.

And yes I've dragged the thread way of topic to which I apologise but the replies comes across as snobbery or the like.

Surely the vast bulk who have EVs or are considering EVs will need to drive on motorway and parhaps get to location quickly and being informed of the likely impact on range at driving at 120kph is useful. IMO it does not deserve the replies here.

The vast bulk of posts here since the dedicated EV forum are useful and I'd like to see it continue in this way.

I agree with all your points, and I can't comment on the Leaf as I drive a Zoe. I did have a wee problem overtaking on a motorway recently, as I forgot to take the car out of Eco!

ei9go

This is a serious question.

The leaf may be the right car for me as I am in a two car situation.

You say there are too many variables so what about this.

Charged to 100%, no heater use, 15 degrees. Start on the M9 in Waterford.

Drive on cruise at an indicated 120kph ( on a Nissan probably actual 112kph).

Will I get to the fast charger in Carlow ?

You should ask the question what you'll get in winter, and will you make it back on an 80% charge after a quick charge ? this I do not know.

That can be as low as 50 miles at 120 KPH at the height of winter. You should make it to Carlow QC for a 20-30 min qc. Summer should be no problem even with heat. You won't tolerate no heat for long in winter.

I don't drive a leaf but basing my reply on 2-3 years of leaf research. driving at 110 Kph makes a difference. And not much to arrival time. Most cars speedo over reads.

As the battery ages at the end of 3 years you could find that range getting tight to not possible at the height of winter.

When thinking of buying you must base this decision on the worst possible if you make this trip daily.

I would say at 100-110 kph it would be no problem with heat in winter.

Temperature will have the greatest impact along with wind and speed.

Fast charging will actually warm up the battery which is fine in winter but not so good if the temp of the battery is already at 20 degrees, avoid charging above 80% on the fast charger or your battery will reduce capacity faster, this is if the battery is hot, hot means above 30 degrees C.

axe2grind

Certainly a head wind increases fuel consumption quite dramatically in my car, though being a van based car, its not particularly aerodynamic. The leaf's drag is relatively low but I imagine a 50kph head wind would reduce range significantly.

This is why I say when buying the Leaf toy should base your decision on winter driving.

jackbauer

I do sometimes wonder if the automakers are sabotaging ev. I drive a converted E39 72 miles a day at motorway speeds (n/m11) with no problems. Heating and lights on of recent weeks. Summer/winter no issue due to simple battery heating. The lithium cells I used will outlast several cars and could'nt care less how slow or fast they are charged.

jackbauer

jackbauer wrote: »

I do sometimes wonder if the automakers are sabotaging ev. I drive a converted E39 72 miles a day at motorway speeds (n/m11) with no problems. Heating and lights on of recent weeks. Summer/winter no issue due to simple battery heating. The lithium cells I used will outlast several cars and could'nt care less how slow or fast they are charged.

What cells do you use ?

How many Kwh ? 72 miles if that's at 120 kph must need more than 20 Kwh. That's a big battery, for a conversion.

Nissan chose the battery size that would be most affordable and usable. And they're locked into contract with NEC so they can't choose another battery maker, not yet.

Nissan chose the safest chemistry that was the most thermal stable at the time meaning it could tolerate a lot of heat without going on fire and they wouldn't have to go to the expense of installing thermal management and it's complexities.

SO this meant that although fast charging significantly heats up the battery, it will not catch fire, and if it gets too hot then the fast charge current will be reduced or not allowed but it will cause faster battery degradation, not as fast as if it's in a hot climate where the temp is 35-40 deg daily for weeks at a time, or months. But enough to cause faster degradation for the rest of us.

Nissan must have known this, but they didn't know how it would effect battery life, or they were foolish to think that Leaf buyers would not fast charge or do a max of 40 miles a day so it would most likely not be an issue for the life of the car. They were so convinced with the battery that they didn't even have forced air cooling.

They have a battery heater from 2012 but it comes on at -20 degrees C and switches off at -10 degrees C, it's really only to prevent the battery from getting damaged it's not designed to improve range.

The Leaf battery was a compromise between range, cost, and safety, safety being the most primary objective.

reni10

On the M9 from Waterford to Carlow you will not make it at 120kph the whole way in winter in a 1.0 Leaf.

You will make it though with a little to spare if you travel on cruise control at 100kph instead.

You do need to be very cautious of head winds though and I would advise checking wind direction and speed before you head off and if you are driving into a strong headwind drop your speed to 90kph.

There is a fast charger in the petrol station in Knocktopher so you could possibly drive at 120kph and then do a recharge there for 10 mins but that is pretty much the same overall time as traveling at 100kph anyway but is very handy in a situation where you have misjudged the headwind or temp or too much use of the heater etc.

All this is from experience as I used to do this exact run on the M9 for months.

Hope that helps!

reboot

ei9go wrote: »

This is a serious question.

The leaf may be the right car for me as I am in a two car situation.

You say there are too many variables so what about this.

Charged to 100%, no heater use, 15 degrees. Start on the M9 in Waterford.

Drive on cruise at an indicated 120kph ( on a Nissan probably actual 112kph).

Will I get to the fast charger in Carlow ?

I don't know if this fact is a red herring in this situation, or a serious consideration if we are only discussing Leaf?
The Renault Zoe will charge in half the time it takes a Leaf to charge in the majority of charge points, ie AC mode only.

reboot

reboot wrote: »

I don't know if this fact is a red herring in this situation, or a serious consideration if we are only discussing Leaf?
The Renault Zoe will charge in half the time it takes a Leaf to charge in the majority of charge points, ie AC mode only.

Yes faster at most ac street chargers but still takes over twice as long than on a fast charger but useful no doubt where there is no qc or one is down.

Sabre Man

reboot wrote: »

I don't know if this fact is a red herring in this situation, or a serious consideration if we are only discussing Leaf?
The Renault Zoe will charge in half the time it takes a Leaf to charge in the majority of charge points, ie AC mode only.

Charging time itself is not that important. What is important is how many km you get per time unit.

Dexter1979

Sabre Man wrote: »

Charging time itself is not that important. What is important is how many km you get per time unit.

Zoe wins that one as well.. 35 minutes to a full 100% charge on a FCP is faster than a Leaf. Stick it on a SCP in Ireland (mostly 22kW) and it will cream a Leaf as well. Zoe can also do 200km+ per charge with care which I haven't seen a Leaf do. 160km with care is about the maximum I have seen.

But since I will have a Zoe soon I may be a bit biased

reboot

Dexter1979 wrote: »

Zoe wins that one as well.. 35 minutes to a full 100% charge on a FCP is faster than a Leaf. Stick it on a SCP in Ireland (mostly 22kW) and it will cream a Leaf as well. Zoe can also do 200km+ per charge with care which I haven't seen a Leaf do. 160km with care is about the maximum I have seen.

But since I will have a Zoe soon I may be a bit biased

Renault UK Man Dir. Ken Ramirez saying the Zoe may be purchased with the battery now.

derry

Question about the cars range isn't the real question.

The real question is what type of car user are you the patient type or the must be there ASAP type either because work or family needs demands it or your personality demands it .

Me I would be quite happy to always go at ~120KPH go for Knocktopher recharge there probably to ~80% for 20 minutes but if I was pressed maybe ~50% for ten minutes to get that range you ask for .

Even my petrol and diesel cars I often go about 50 to 80 miles and take a coffee or rest break when doing longer journeys.

However I dont travel for my work and dont have any family demands so basically I can do what I want .

However if your the type that just wants to get in car and drive at 120KPH every time and arrive guaranteed that range then your on sticky wicket. Then unless you look at longer range cars like ZOE or similar or wait for the newer leafs that will probably have more range in the future or buy a small petrol cars realistically those are the only present options for that personalty or demand lead driver type .

Derry

The Zoe doesn't have more range at motorway speeds than the Leaf. And it's slower.