Last 20 All-Irelands

Clareman

I had an interesting discussion in the pub last night about the state of hurling and football. A lot is made of the fact that football is a lot more competitive than hurling and that there's a bigger spread football winners than hurling, looking at the past 20 years that doesn't really add up when you consider the fact there are so many more counties playing football than hurling.

For the past 20 years there hasn't been that big of a difference between the number of different winners in football than there is in hurling, 8 football to 6 hurling. Considering there are almost 3 times as many football playing counties as hurling this shows that hurling could be considered more competitive than football.

People can say that Kilkenny are dominating hurling so that means that football is more competitive. In the past 20 years Kilkenny have won 10 finals, Kerry have won 7 football, again, taking the difference in the amount of teams involved in each.

Football
County Wins
1 Kerry 7
2 Tyrone 3
3 Dublin 3
4 Meath 2
5 Galway 2
7 Donegal 1
8 Armagh 1
9 Cork 1
Total 20


Hurling
County Wins
1 Kilkenny 10
2 Clare 3
3 Cork 3
4 Tipperary 2
5 Wexford 1
6 Offaly 1
Total 20

KevinK

It's true for 20 years, but 20 years is a bit arbitrary.

If we take 15 it's 7v4 , or 16 years would be 8v4

25 years would be 10 v 6.

Dirty Dingus McGee

The difference is the chasm between the top 10 and the rest in hurling whereas from the top to the bottom in football there is a fairly equal drop each step down the ladder.

Also this year we had teams meeting in the final for the first time in football whereas this years hurling final was the 4th time in 6 years KK and Tipp played each other.There always seems to be a new team making a move every year in football whereas the top 10 or so teams remain static in hurling and will probably stay the same for the next twenty years.In twenty years time in football the top 10 could be a lot different.

To be honest I didn't give a fiddlers who won the hurling last night and despite the first game being a classic I don't think I've ever had as little interest in a hurling final.Probably because I'm not really from a hurling background whereas there always seems to be a team for myself to support in every football final.It would be interesting to fin out of the same teams meeting in hurling is leading to a lack of neutral interest.The buildup to the replay here was very quiet I have to say and on other boards as well it seemed to be.

Clareman

KevinK wrote: »

It's true for 20 years, but 20 years is a bit arbitrary.

If we take 15 it's 7v4 , or 16 years would be 8v4

25 years would be 10 v 6.

The reason for 20 years was because 20 years is generally seen as a generation, as good as any to use, also, Clare people are a bit biased so we'll concentrate on 20 years

Rightwing

Just looking at those tables, we can do a simple anlaysis for next year.

Football
We can rule out, meath, galway, armagh, tyrone, and add in Mayo.

That leaves us with only 5 possible winners. All the others are making up the numbers.

Hurling, we can rule out, offaly, wexford and add in Galway and Limerick. That leaves us with 6.

Conclusion: Hurling is more competitive.

Clareman

I don't know if I'd be ruling our Wexford, they are going to be a force, but i guess in the last 20 years they didn't do much. Don't forget you could add in Waterford to the hurling as well.

dzer2

In fairness 10 yrs is a long time in sport as that is regarded as the lenght of the playing career of most inter county players. If you look over the last 10 yrs then it will be a different view.

Clareman

If you want to go 10 years, then it's 5 football vs. 4 hurling, although Kilkenny have won 7 of the hurling

Hurling
County Wins
Kilkenny 7
Tipperary 1
Clare 1
Cork 1
Total 10

Football
County Wins
Kerry 4
Tyrone 2
Dublin 2
Cork 1
Donegal 1
Total 10

Rightwing

In football, the strong teams seem to getting further away from the pack, whereas in hurling KK are getting drawn in to the pack. This is a little peculiar given the vast difference in skill levels between the 2 codes.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rightwing wrote: »

In football, the strong teams seem to getting further away from the pack, whereas in hurling KK are getting drawn in to the pack. This is a little peculiar given the vast difference in skill levels between the 2 codes.

How is it unusual that the top football teams have improved and the top hurling team has got weaker.It can happen in any sport.

Rightwing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

How is it unusual that the top football teams have improved and the top hurling team has got weaker.It can happen in any sport.

The other hurling teams have improved hugely. Whereas in football, where there's far less skill involved, this hasn't happened.

You'd think more teams would be capable of competing. Looking at Donegal, most teams in the country should be able to get up that level. Even the top team resorted to muck tactics to win the AI

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rightwing wrote: »

The other hurling teams have improved hugely. Whereas in football, where there's far less skill involved, this hasn't happened.

You'd think more teams would be capable of competing. Looking at Donegal, most teams in the country should be able to get up that level. Even the top team resorted to muck tactics to win the AI

Maybe that more teams aren't capable of competing is an indication that there is a fair bit of skill involved in football.Loads of teams have become well organised and disciplined over the last ten years in the hope of competing but very few have had enough good footballers to compete.Organisation and discipline doesn't kick the ball over the bar.

Kerry implemented their tactics in the final because they saw that Dublin got hit by Donegal on the counter attack and weren't going to fall for it like Dublin did.

Donegal over the last 4 or 5 years have had some great players,Lacey,McFadden,Murphy,Neil Gallagher,The McGee's,Kevin Cassidy,McBrearty etc are all top class players.Their manager although he deserves a lot of credit has gotten far too much credit for their success.If he was in charge of most other counties in Ireland he wouldn't have got close to winning an All Ireland.

keane2097

We get it, hurling is amazing, football is terrible.

Rightwing

keane2097 wrote: »

We get it, hurling is amazing, football is terrible.

After recent viewing of both AIs I find it hard to disagree with this.

Rightwing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Maybe that more teams aren't capable of competing is an indication that there is a fair bit of skill involved in football.Loads of teams have become well organised and disciplined over the last ten years in the hope of competing but very few have had enough good footballers to compete.Organisation and discipline doesn't kick the ball over the bar.

Kerry implemented their tactics in the final because they saw that Dublin got hit by Donegal on the counter attack and weren't going to fall for it like Dublin did.

Donegal over the last 4 or 5 years have had some great players,Lacey,McFadden,Murphy,Neil Gallagher,The McGee's,Kevin Cassidy,McBrearty etc are all top class players.Their manager although he deserves a lot of credit has gotten far too much credit for their success.If he was in charge of most other counties in Ireland he wouldn't have got close to winning an All Ireland.

That's the bit I find strange.

It shouldn't really take a lot to kick a ball over the bar, soccer style it over if you have to, like the donegal chap did.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rightwing wrote: »

That's the bit I find strange.

It shouldn't really take a lot to kick a ball over the bar, soccer style it over if you have to, like the donegal chap did.

McNiallis's score last week was nice but it was a a one off, he'll probably never score one like that again, a soccer style kick over the bar would be very easy to block as a ball coming a lower trajectory can be easily palmed away by a defender.

The last time I remember something like that happening was when a Tipperary player half volleyed the ball over the bar from the 45.

Blue giant

Rightwing wrote: »

That's the bit I find strange.

It shouldn't really take a lot to kick a ball over the bar, soccer style it over if you have to, like the donegal chap did.

Nor should it take much to strike a sliotar over the bar. This thread stinks of some high and mighty hurling fan slating football. Why do some ( certainly not all ) hurling fans try and bring down football at every opportunity.

Rightwing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

McNiallis's score last week was nice but it was a a one off, he'll probably never score one like that again, a soccer style kick over the bar would be very easy to block as a ball coming a lower trajectory can be easily palmed away by a defender.

The last time I remember something like that happening was when a Tipperary player half volleyed the ball over the bar from the 45.

That's probably true.

I still find it strange that counties like kildare/meath can be so ordinary at football. No other sports in their counties and that's the best they can do. Shocking.

Rightwing

Blue giant wrote: »

Nor should it take much to strike a sliotar over the bar. This thread stinks of some high and mighty hurling fan slating football. Why do some ( certainly not all ) hurling fans try and bring down football at every opportunity.

There's absolutely no doubt about that, 1 of the great skills of hurling is lost. Similar to football, too much rushing and dragging have led to that skill being lost.

Blue giant

Rightwing wrote: »

That's probably true.

I still find it strange that counties like kildare/meath can be so ordinary at football. No other sports in their counties and that's the best they can do. Shocking.

So you know that no one in the Meath or Kildare plays soccer, hurling or rugby. Shocking indeed :rolleyes:

Rightwing

Blue giant wrote: »

So you know that no one in the Meath or Kildare plays soccer, hurling or rugby. Shocking indeed :rolleyes:

And if they do, it's at the same level as their footballers...a low level.

Clareman

I don't think it's a hurling v football thing, I think it's more down to perception. To be honest, if you asked me to compare both codes I would have said there was a far bigger spread of potential winners in football than in hurling. I also wouldn't have thought that Clare have won as many All Irelands as Cork and more than Tipperary in the past 20 years, same as I wouldn't have Meath and Galway would have had more than Donegal/Cork/Armagh

Mountainlad

Clareman wrote: »

I don't think it's a hurling v football thing, I think it's more down to perception. To be honest, if you asked me to compare both codes I would have said there was a far bigger spread of potential winners in football than in hurling. I also wouldn't have thought that Clare have won as many All Irelands as Cork and more than Tipperary in the past 20 years, same as I wouldn't have Meath and Galway would have had more than Donegal/Cork/Armagh

Of course its an interesting topic. I find football fans always get very defensive about this kind of thing to be honest.

My conclusion would that the modern game is becoming more competitive as more teams have access to resources and can prepare to the best possible levels. There are always challenges to this but think that there is definitely a big levelling going on in both sports.

Clareman

Mountainlad wrote: »

Of course its an interesting topic. I find football fans always get very defensive about this kind of thing to be honest.

My conclusion would that the modern game is becoming more competitive as more teams have access to resources and can prepare to the best possible levels. There are always challenges to this but think that there is definitely a big levelling going on in both sports.

As a sports addict I can never understand some people's fascination with insisting that their sport is the best, every sport has it's merits and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Rightwing

Mountainlad wrote: »

Of course its an interesting topic. I find football fans always get very defensive about this kind of thing to be honest.

My conclusion would that the modern game is becoming more competitive as more teams have access to resources and can prepare to the best possible levels. There are always challenges to this but think that there is definitely a big levelling going on in both sports.

Very true. Your second point is what I would have expected for football, but the opposite seems to be happening, teams like meath are finished.

Clareman wrote: »

As a sports addict I can never understand some people's fascination with insisting that their sport is the best, every sport has it's merits and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

You have a point, but most of the country is always going on about hurling being the best sport in the world. It's 1 of them for sure, but I'm not sure we can say the best.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rightwing wrote: »

Very true. Your second point is what I would have expected for football, but the opposite seems to be happening, teams like meath are finished.



You have a point, but most of the country is always going on about hurling being the best sport in the world. It's 1 of them for sure, but I'm not sure we can say the best.

Teams like Meath are finished?

So basically they'll never win an all ireland again and should just give up.

7 or 8 years ago you could have said Clare hurling was finished or Donegal football is finished.

In sports like GAA success comes in cycles, it almost impossible for teams to dominate long term and completely kill off the oppositions chances.

BonnieSituation

Clareman wrote: »

As a sports addict I can never understand some people's fascination with insisting that their sport is the best, every sport has it's merits and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Except golf and Rugby League and basketball...

*runs*

Rightwing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

Teams like Meath are finished?

So basically they'll never win an all ireland again and should just give up.

7 or 8 years ago you could have said Clare hurling was finished or Donegal football is finished.

In sports like GAA success comes in cycles, it almost impossible for teams to dominate long term and completely kill off the oppositions chances.

It's not all about winning.

Funnily enough, I think the game has gone too professional and the players should be getting some monetary reward at this stage.

BonnieSituation

Clareman wrote: »

As a sports addict I can never understand some people's fascination with insisting that their sport is the best, every sport has it's merits and everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I'm the same as yourself. I have my preferences but I love mostly everything bar the hellish three stated above.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Rightwing wrote: »

It's not all about winning.

Funnily enough, I think the game has gone too professional and the players should be getting some monetary reward at this stage.

You said in your comment above they were finished.

So if your not referring to their chances of winning are finished I assume you know something I don't and Meath are announcing that they will be giving up fielding teams from now on.

Rightwing

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

You said in your comment above they were finished.

So if your not referring to their chances of winning are finished I assume you know something I don't and Meath are announcing that they will be giving up fielding teams from now on.

Finished as in they've as much chance of winning the football as Clare or Tipp. In fact, I'd say Tipp have a better chance. Just because you won't win doesn't mean quit. Quit if you don't like being a loser.

paul71

Rightwing wrote: »

And if they do, it's at the same level as their footballers...a low level.

Strange statement that given the numbers of Kildaremen and Meathmen that have represented Ireland in the last 10 years and indeed currently represent the country. Perhaps you should go look it up and inform yourself before making incorrect statements

homeofhurling

Clareman wrote: »

I had an interesting discussion in the pub last night about the state of hurling and football. A lot is made of the fact that football is a lot more competitive than hurling and that there's a bigger spread football winners than hurling, looking at the past 20 years that doesn't really add up when you consider the fact there are so many more counties playing football than hurling.

For the past 20 years there hasn't been that big of a difference between the number of different winners in football than there is in hurling, 8 football to 6 hurling. Considering there are almost 3 times as many football playing counties as hurling this shows that hurling could be considered more competitive than football.

People can say that Kilkenny are dominating hurling so that means that football is more competitive. In the past 20 years Kilkenny have won 10 finals, Kerry have won 7 football, again, taking the difference in the amount of teams involved in each.

Football
County Wins
1 Kerry 7
2 Tyrone 3
3 Dublin 3
4 Meath 2
5 Galway 2
7 Donegal 1
8 Armagh 1
9 Cork 1
Total 20


Hurling
County Wins
1 Kilkenny 10
2 Clare 3
3 Cork 3
4 Tipperary 2
5 Wexford 1
6 Offaly 1
Total 20

offaly would have 2 no 1994 and 98

Realt Dearg Sec

Rightwing wrote: »

. Just because you won't win doesn't mean quit. Quit if you don't like being a loser.

Wait a minute, aren't you from limerick?

Mountainlad

homeofhurling wrote: »

offaly would have 2 no 1994 and 98

1995-2014 is 20 championships

angelfire9

What I find interesting is the dual county status of the winners
In football Dublin Cork and Galway are contenders in the last 6/8 in hurling as well as football (Galway less so in football recently)

Whereas in hurling all bar Kilkenny are dual counties
But none other than Cork would be last 6/8 contenders in the big ball

Mountainlad

angelfire9 wrote: »

What I find interesting is the dual county status of the winners
In football Dublin Cork and Galway are contenders in the last 6/8 in hurling as well as football (Galway less so in football recently)

Whereas in hurling all bar Kilkenny are dual counties
But none other than Cork would be last 6/8 contenders in the big ball

They're also three of the biggest counties in the Country and Dublin in those 20 years have been one of the worst teams in hurling as well before 2009.

Galway have made the all Ireland semi final once only 3 times since 2001. Considering the lack of teams competing at the top level in hurling, it really isn't that much of an achievement.

For example, if Galway had drawn us (Waterford) in the quals and beaten us they would have made the last 8. Hardly much of an achievement.

In fact, the only team Galway beat in the last two years has been Laois and in spite of that they made the last 6 last year. See what I mean?