Gibraltar barred from the World Cup and FIFA Membership

losthorizon

Surely if this is the case then is not England's, Scotlands, Wales and NIs also illegal as none of these members are independent. They are just regions. There should just be a UK team. Why are the Faeroe Islands allowed to compete when they are not an independent nation.

American Samoa is a member of Fifa and yes you guessed it - its not fully independent. So they can take part in World cup qualifying campaigns .There are many others. And there is also an example of a country that FIFA and UEFA wont give membership to that many nations recognize as independent (including Ireland and Gemany) and thats Kosovo (where we have military Police stationed at the moment).

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/26/uk-soccer-fifa-gibraltar-idUKKCN0HL27T20140926

Dirty Dingus McGee

Could never understand why Scotland, Wales, The North and England were allowed in FIFA and UEFA none of them are independent country's.

If they can have teams surely Catalonia,Basque country etc could argue they should be allowed to join UEFA and FIFA and field a team.

DubDani

That outcome was expected. They also only got UEFA membership after they went to the CAS (Court of Arbitration for Sport), who ruled in their favour.

Will be the same for FIFA membership, will just take a few more years now.

razorblunt

Because ... FIFA

keeponhurling

razorblunt wrote: »

Because ... FIFA

I would agree with FIFA's decision though

dreamers75

Uk teams are in some group that makes the rules, assume that makes them exempt from this type of thing as they predate FIFA.

~Rebel~

I know one part of the basis of a national team is having a football association. Not sure it makes all that much sense, but England, Wales, Scotland and N.I all have their own associations, each which can put forward a 'national' team.

That would seem to fly in the face of what Blatter quotes though.

Its Only Ray Parlour

losthorizon wrote: »

Surely if this is the case then is not England's, Scotlands, Wales and NIs also illegal as none of these members are independent. They are just regions.

No, a region is like the West Midlands, East Midlands, etc...

Wales, Scotland and NI are countries in a union with England to form a sovereign state.

This thing is, the definition of "country" is a bit vague.

Paz-CCFC

dreamers75 wrote: »

Uk teams are in some group that makes the rules, assume that makes them exempt from this type of thing as they predate FIFA.

The International Football Association Board. The English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish FAs have one vote each; FIFA have four. It's a joke that four football associations have a 50% say in dictating the fundamental laws of the game, whilst the opinion of the other 205 FIFA members essentially means f*ck all.

Up until the late 50s, it was even worse. They all had two votes each, and a 4/5ths majority was required (not 3/4, like now) to pass votes/change the rules. So, the UK nations could stick together and make up whatever rules they wanted to.

greendom

Wonder if this decision was caused by pressure from Spain? With Blather seeking re-election it seems a possibility

Augmerson

Puerto Rico is in FIFA and is a US territory.

irishmover

Similarly to this would be the likes of Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff being allowed play in the English leagues.

I laughed when the English FA refused Celtic entry to the English leagues as they're not an English club.

Football, quite often is highly contradictory. This ruling has not surprised me in the slightest.

Augmerson

irishmover wrote: »

Similarly to this would be the likes of Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff being allowed play in the English leagues.

I laughed when the English FA refused Celtic entry to the English leagues as they're not an English club.

Football, quite often is highly contradictory. This ruling has not surprised me in the slightest.

I don't think it was just down to the FA. I think the Premier League or Football League clubs had a vote. Some were in favour. Ultimately it was voted against. I don't think it was simply because they were not English. That was my take from what I read in an article but that was many moons ago.

irishmover

Augmerson wrote: »

I don't think it was just down to the FA. I think the Premier League or Football League clubs had a vote. Some were in favour. Ultimately it was voted against. I don't think it was simply because they were not English. That was my take from what I read in an article but that was many moons ago.

Yeh ofcourse there was several other reasons, can't really find too much information. Just remember it being said by someone in the FA that Scottish teams should play in Scottish leagues and English teams should play in English leagues and that there should be no exception to the rule.

pablomakaveli

Paz-CCFC wrote: »

The International Football Association Board. The English, Welsh, Scottish and Northern Irish FAs have one vote each; FIFA have four. It's a joke that four football associations have a 50% say in dictating the fundamental laws of the game, whilst the opinion of the other 205 FIFA members essentially means f*ck all.

Up until the late 50s, it was even worse. They all had two votes each, and a 4/5ths majority was required (not 3/4, like now) to pass votes/change the rules. So, the UK nations could stick together and make up whatever rules they wanted to.

Given how corrupt FIFA is though i'm not sure thats a bad thing.

citytillidie

irishmover wrote: »

Similarly to this would be the likes of Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff being allowed play in the English leagues.

I laughed when the English FA refused Celtic entry to the English leagues as they're not an English club.

Football, quite often is highly contradictory. This ruling has not surprised me in the slightest.

One big difference Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff have played in the English system from the start Celtic wanted to join the premier league.

irishmover

citytillidie wrote: »

One big difference Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff have played in the English system from the start Celtic wanted to join the premier league.

This is a debate for another thread but it still doesn't make it any less contradictory.

citytillidie

irishmover wrote: »

Yeh ofcourse there was several other reasons, can't really find too much information. Just remember it being said by someone in the FA that Scottish teams should play in Scottish leagues and English teams should play in English leagues and that there should be no exception to the rule.

But there is, an English team Berwick Rangers play in Scotland

irishmover

citytillidie wrote: »

But there is, an English team Berwick Rangers play in Scotland

Anyway a quick google search shows that the English league was established well before Swansea and Cardiff formed.

Berwick Rangers just stipulates my point that it's contradictory to say there is no exception to the rule...........

losthorizon

irishmover wrote: »

Yeh ofcourse there was several other reasons, can't really find too much information. Just remember it being said by someone in the FA that Scottish teams should play in Scottish leagues and English teams should play in English leagues and that there should be no exception to the rule.

er Berwick Rangers are from England and play in the Scottish Leagues.. There are Tonnes of examples of teams playing in the wrong League.

We even have it in the LOI - Derry City.

Guy:Incognito

irishmover wrote: »

This is a debate for another thread but it still doesn't make it any less contradictory.

It does. Celtic are already in a well established, full professional league.

The Welsh clubs didn't have a proper standard league at the time iirc.

Is it really a bad thing that theres 3 full functioning , professional Welsh clubs competing at a high standard rather than what would have happened and the Welsh league having 3 more teams of the standard of TNS, Port Talbot or Airbus UK?

losthorizon wrote: »

er Berwick Rangers are from England and play in the Scottish Leagues.. There are Tonnes of examples of teams playing in the wrong League.

We even have it in the LOI - Derry City.

How many are recent and for the reasons of "we think we can make more money in another countries league" while switching from a fully professional league that teams qualify for CL group stages and beyond?

losthorizon

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

It does. Celtic are already in a well established, full professional league.

The Welsh clubs didn't have a proper standard league at the time iirc.

Is it really a bad thing that theres 3 full functioning , professional Welsh clubs competing at a high standard rather than what would have happened and the Welsh league having 3 more teams of the standard of TNS, Port Talbot or Airbus UK?




How many are recent and for the reasons of "we think we can make more money in another countries league" while switching from a fully professional league that teams qualify for CL group stages and beyond?

Well, actually the Welsh clubs that became part of the English league system only did so fairly recently. Before that they were members of the Welsh FA. Now they are not allowed to enter the welsh Cup or Welsh league or welsh championship. They do so for Financial and competition reasons and for the FA'S sake.

Blatter himself would be very au fait with this situation as he is Swiss. Switzerland allows all six lichtenstein I believe senior teams compete in its league system. In fact Vaduz FC are very very handy as a result of this arrangement. (They are probably better than their national team.)

As this is a FIFA decision they have no problem with allowing Canadian clubs into the the US league. New Zealand clubs into the Australian league or Mexican clubs into South American Confederation Championships.

Finnish clubs play in the Swedish leagues. German clubs play in the Swiss leagues. Andorran clubs play in Spain. Spanish clubs play in France. The list is endless.

Not really sure what all that has to do with not allowing Gibraltar into FIFA though. They are two totally different discussions and not related. In fact all Gibraltar clubs play in Gibraltar, they have their own league and Cup and their own FA. They are a self governing entity not in the EU.

Fr Tod Umptious

Did Celtic ever officially apply to join the EPL ?

Or was it just talk that everyone gave an opinion opinion on ?

keeponhurling

Also the small matter of Gibraltar not having a football pitch capable of hosting international matches

Lovely Bloke

citytillidie wrote: »

But there is, an English team Berwick Rangers play in Scotland

...and a NI team playing in the LOI

losthorizon

keeponhurling wrote: »

Also the small matter of Gibraltar not having a football pitch capable of hosting international matches

Neither does Andorra .. its a member of FIFA.

In fact Gibraltar is constructing/updating its stadium to be able to host competitive games at the moment. I was in Gibraltar in 2013 and saw their current stadium from a distance. Cant see why they arent allowed to use that and just not not permit people into the parts of the ground that arent seated. Its actually quite a nice ground for such a small place.

citytillidie

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

...and a NI team playing in the LOI

Well that his external reasons other than football

losthorizon

citytillidie wrote: »

Well that his external reasons other than football

Yes but there are plenty of other examples. But, what has this got to do with Gibraltar?

mikeym

What a joke of a decision.

I wish FIFA got disbanded.

Augmerson

mikeym wrote: »

What a joke of a decision.

I wish FIFA got disbanded.

There'd be no FIFA 15 or 16 tho

Hard Worker

Gibraltar picked up their first ever UEFA Championship point, at any level, when they drew 0-0 with Faroe Islands at St Mels Park, Athlone on Saturday night. It was in the UEFA Under 17 UEFA Championship Qualifying round.

keeponhurling

Hard Worker wrote: »

Gibraltar picked up their first ever UEFA Championship point, at any level, when they drew 0-0 with Faroe Islands at St Mels Park, Athlone on Saturday night. It was in the UEFA Under 17 UEFA Championship Qualifying round.

Who was the home team ( nominally) ?

Eirebear

losthorizon wrote: »

They are just regions.

Firstly, given recent events, that really ****ing stings - cheers.

Secondly, Scotland & England are the original international football teams, the first international match took place between the two teams.
The SFA is the second oldest national association, just after England.
It was also one of the founding members of UEFA.

We may have voted away the opportunity to be a "Real" country, but we're more than a region thanks. Our SFA may be an absolute joke now, but don't underestimate our influence in the growing of football and our right to play as a national side.

doncarlos

Eirebear wrote: »

and our right to play as a national side.

You voted against it last week.

There should be no N. Ireland, Wales or Scotland international sides. I know they are there for traditional reasons but they don't have any more right than Gibraltar, Catalonia, Basque country etc.

greendom

doncarlos wrote: »

You voted against it last week.

There should be no N. Ireland, Wales or Scotland international sides. I know they are there for traditional reasons but they don't have any more right than Gibraltar, Catalonia, Basque country etc.

But from an administrative football view point they have more of a reason for existing than the Spanish regions you mention. There is a separate Scottish and Northern Irish FA with leagues that are separate to the one in England. Basque and Catalan sides are all part of the Spanish FA and play in the Spanish league

Admittedly this means that Wales are in a more precarious position. They have a Welsh FA and league but their top sides play in the English leagues.

keeponhurling

Wasn't this the main reason there was such a fuss over team GB soccer team in the Olympics , and lots of opposition to it

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

keeponhurling wrote: »

Wasn't this the main reason there was such a fuss over team GB soccer team in the Olympics , and lots of opposition to it

Being an Olympic association is completely different from being a member of FIFA.

doncarlos

greendom wrote: »

But from an administrative football view point they have more of a reason for existing than the Spanish regions you mention. There is a separate Scottish and Northern Irish FA with leagues that are separate to the one in England. Basque and Catalan sides are all part of the Spanish FA and play in the Spanish league

Admittedly this means that Wales are in a more precarious position. They have a Welsh FA and league but their top sides play in the English leagues.

Yes but these only exist for traditional reasons. There was no FIFA or UEFA when they were formed. They don't come under FIFA's own definition of a country
The FIFA Statutes, August 2014 edition, define a country as "an independent state recognised by the international community."

The Welsh FA only formed their league in the early 90s as they were worried that their international team

Jimoslimos

doncarlos wrote: »

Yes but these only exist for traditional reasons. There was no FIFA or UEFA when they were formed. They don't come under FIFA's own definition of a country
The FIFA Statutes, August 2014 edition, define a country as "an independent state recognised by the international community."

Seems rather vague. Should go with the Pointless criteria for determining a country

As ever, when we say country, we're looking for a sovereign state recognised by the United Nations

greendom

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Seems rather vague. Should go with the Pointless criteria for determining a country

As ever, when we say country, we're looking for a sovereign state recognised by the United Nations

That's a Pointless definition, if ever I heard one !

losthorizon

Jimoslimos wrote: »

Seems rather vague. Should go with the Pointless criteria for determining a country

As ever, when we say country, we're looking for a sovereign state recognised by the United Nations

Putting aside the British associations - FIFA ignores this completely as well. As they have plenty of members not independent countrys. And some independent countrys whom they wont allow join for fear of upsetting other members.

There were riots today in Hong Kong - and you know what? Hong Kong is not an independent country but it is a member of FIFA (along with its neighbour Macau - which is also not independent but a member of FIFA). They are just two self governing regions of China.

The Golden Miller

losthorizon wrote: »

Yes but there are plenty of other examples. But, what has this got to do with Gibraltar?

He wasn't replying to you, and your not in much of a position to question him on their relevance when it was you who brought them up

The Golden Miller

If you ain't sovereign you shouldn't be competing. We'll then see how many people in Scotland are "proud to be British", when all their teams representing them are taken away and incorporated in a UK team, where they'd be lucky to get to field one player

Pinturicchio

keeponhurling wrote: »

Who was the home team ( nominally) ?

The whole group took place in Galway, Athlone and Longford. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_UEFA_European_Under-17_Championship_qualifying_round#Group_1

A Dub in Glasgo

doncarlos wrote: »

There should be no N. Ireland, Wales or Scotland international sides. I know they are there for traditional reasons but they don't have any more right than Gibraltar, Catalonia, Basque country etc.

You missed out on an England side as well

Billy86

The simple answer to all of this is also the most obvious - they didn't pay the unofficial fees.

FatherTed

Not unprecedented. Guadaloupe, Martinique and French Guinea are members of Concacaf and can compete for the Gold Cup(equivalent to the Euros) but are not members of FIFA so they cannot take part in World Cup qualifying. These are French overseas territories.

Zebra3

irishmover wrote: »

Similarly to this would be the likes of Swansea, Wrexham and Cardiff being allowed play in the English leagues.

I laughed when the English FA refused Celtic entry to the English leagues as they're not an English club.

Football, quite often is highly contradictory. This ruling has not surprised me in the slightest.

The FA Premier League constitution states that only clubs from England and Wales may enter the league.

losthorizon

FatherTed wrote: »

Not unprecedented. Guadaloupe, Martinique and French Guinea are members of Concacaf and can compete for the Gold Cup(equivalent to the Euros) but are not members of FIFA so they cannot take part in World Cup qualifying. These are French overseas territories.

Slightly different as their clubs are part of the French Football Federation. They take part in The French Cup for instance. A Club from Reunion got into the last 32 recently. Thats in the Indian ocean.