Protein Intake after long runs

Ron Burgundy II

basically I'm lost and confused with what's on the market at the moment about the best way to take protein after long runs.

at the moment I'm training for the DCM (my first marathon) and i'm at the 20 mile distance marker in my training. However I'm finding it very tough to recover from these long runs sometimes i might not be right for 3/4 days. I have programmed in a physio visit once every 2/3 weeks and this has helped me no ends when it comes to recovering from the long runs.

But clearly i'm doing something wrong, I need to be consuming more protein then I do at the moment. I was thinking of buying some protein bars to take after a long run. I really don't want to be consuming too much dairy in fact if i can avoid dairy I would be delighted. But i understand this may not be possible.

Thanking you in advance

Regards
Ron

rom

What's your half pb and what pace you doing the long runs at? How many long runs have u done. At this stage you would except to be a bit tired from the long runs. What's your weekly mileage or are u following a plan?

thomas anderson.

Just ate plenty of chicken meself

sconhome

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

basically I'm lost and confused with what's on the market at the moment about the best way to take protein after long runs.

The long and short of it is there'll be a ton of different viewpoints on this.

If you can't face eating or get a chicken sandwich into you or poached eggs or the like immediately after an intensive session then that's where the off the shelf products come into their own.

Personally I like the Kinetica or Accelerade recovery products. You mix a drink and get protein and carbs right into the system without the bloaty effects of a protein shake.

Works for me.

Stazza

AKW wrote: »

The long and short of it is there'll be a ton of different viewpoints on this.

If you can't face eating or get a chicken sandwich into you or poached eggs or the like immediately after an intensive session then that's where the off the shelf products come into their own.

Personally I like the Kinetica or Accelerade recovery products. You mix a drink and get protein and carbs right into the system without the bloaty effects of a protein shake.

Works for me.

Kinetica 100% recovery is the dogs. It's better than any food. I started taking it about 4 weeks ago and it's incredible stuff. At my age, all the aches and pains are exacerbated but after a glass of Kinetica I'm ready to go again in the evening/next morning. Best supplement I take, by far.

Ron Burgundy II

Ran the last HM in 1.45.

Running the long runs at approx 8min mile.

At the moment I'm trying to run two 6 mile runs mid week when i have the time (some early morning starts or late night runs). with a long run on either a saturday or sunday. So far I have been running 12-15-18 will be running 21-24-24 over the next three weeks. I try to get out early in the morning so eating chicken for breakfast doesn't sound appealing. i would eat a handful of cashew nuts about an 1hr before the run, and then take gels and water with the occasional cereal bar on the run.

plodder

Maybe you have other reasons for avoiding dairy, and I had gone along with the general anti-dairy thing up till recently as well. But, there was a remarkable report on RTE last week about how maligned dairy actually is, and how good diary proteins and fats are for you. I suspect that the protein in most recovery drinks is dairy based anyway. Anyway, if I was in your position I'd be taking some formulated recovery drink as well, straight after all hard sessions - at least until you feel you've gotten over this hump.

menoscemo

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

Ran the last HM in 1.45.

Running the long runs at approx 8min mile.

At the moment I'm trying to run two 6 mile runs mid week when i have the time (some early morning starts or late night runs). with a long run on either a saturday or sunday. So far I have been running 12-15-18 will be running 21-24-24 over the next three weeks. I try to get out early in the morning so eating chicken for breakfast doesn't sound appealing. i would eat a handful of cashew nuts about an 1hr before the run, and then take gels and water with the occasional cereal bar on the run.

So your running 20 miles at your Half marathon PB pace?

No wonder you are wrecked for days afterwards. Think about it, 20 miles at HM pace...... it's got nothing to do with your protein intake...

ecoli

menoscemo wrote: »

So your running 20 miles at your Half marathon PB pace?

No wonder you are wrecked for days afterwards. Think about it, 20 miles at HM pace...... it's got nothing to do with your protein intake...

As meno said the intensity of this session is one of the primary factors here not nutrition. Also factor in that you are running 60-70% of your weekly mileage in one run also your weekend session is too long and too hard for your current capabilities (although it doesn't matter whether your running a 2.03 or an 8 hour Marathon 20 miles @ your race pace either shows your overcooking training or majorly under cooking racing)

ooter

I'd never claim to be a know all when it comes to nutrition but I honestly don't think we need to consume half as much protein as we think we do or are told to do.
I don't eat/drink any animal fat or protein and I certainly don't think I'm missing out or struggling to recover.
I reckon I get sufficient protein from the plant sources I eat and I'm by no means eating tonnes of it to compensate for the fact I'm not consuming animal products.

generic2012

ooter wrote: »

I'd never claim to be a know all when it comes to nutrition but I honestly don't think we need to consume half as much protein as we think we do or are told to do.
I don't eat/drink any animal fat or protein and I certainly don't think I'm missing out or struggling to recover.
I reckon I get sufficient protein from the plant sources I eat and I'm by no means eating tonnes of it to compensate for the fact I'm not consuming animal products.

It's only important at caloric deficits which is not something a performance athlete will generally want to utilise, so I'd agree, but for god sake...be careful where you say that!

rom

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

Ran the last HM in 1.45.

Running the long runs at approx 8min mile.

At the moment I'm trying to run two 6 mile runs mid week when i have the time (some early morning starts or late night runs). with a long run on either a saturday or sunday. So far I have been running 12-15-18 will be running 21-24-24 over the next three weeks. I try to get out early in the morning so eating chicken for breakfast doesn't sound appealing. i would eat a handful of cashew nuts about an 1hr before the run, and then take gels and water with the occasional cereal bar on the run.

45sec - 1min slower than your MP is where you want to be doing your long runs. My long runs were about 7:45 for my last marathon build up where I ran 2:58. A long run is not a dress rehearsal for your race. We have all made that mistake. Its simple goal is improve your endurance and not to tire you out to a level that you can't do a good session during the week. You know you have done a long run right when you don't feel wrecked after doing 20M in the morning and can do everything else you need to do without feeling too tired. The more advanced plans introduce some running at marathon pace closer to the day but how most people will improve is by increasing their endurance.

What speed should you train at?

1. Go to http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/
2. Enter your distance PB or closest distance in this case half @ 1:45
3. Select the distance the race was.
4. Press calculate.
5. On the next page go to "Training Paces"
6. On the next page it will show you your paces. So for you 8:27 - 9:45 should be your long run pace. So 9min per mile would be a good target. 9min/mile was my long run pace when I ran 3:18 just to give you some perspective.

viperlogic

As above, your LSR pace is away too fast. You should still be fresh after them. Regards protein, I try to get this from my diet by making sure there is protein in every meal. If I have had a tough session and didn't have a good protein intake that day then I would take a protein shake, I use Kinetica complete. But these are very rare days as the Kinetica Complete 2KG bag has nearly lasted a year. Make an effort to get some protein into within 20mins of workout. I'm a big fan of a pint of milk. Great thirst quencher also and can be easily picked up anywhere after a run.

barryoneill50

viperlogic wrote: »

As above, your LSR pace is away too fast. You should still be fresh after them. Regards protein, I try to get this from my diet by making sure there is protein in every meal. If I have had a tough session and didn't have a good protein intake that day then I would take a protein shake, I use Kinetica complete. But these are very rare days as the Kinetica Complete 2KG bag has nearly lasted a year. Make an effort to get some protein into within 20mins of workout. I'm a big fan of a pint of milk. Great thirst quencher also and can be easily picked up anywhere after a run.

do they still do pints:P

Ron Burgundy II

Thanks for the advice. First marathon so just went out and ran a pace I was kind of comfortable with. For instance I would be fine till the 15/16 mile marker but would be feeling fatigued in the legs from 16-20 miles.

I find it much easier to run with people so have been running in a group so kind of go at the pace they run. This must be doing untold damage to my body.

I'm not going to progress further than 24 miles that I will be running on this weekend. So I'm going to run two 24 miles, 1 this weekend and the second next weekend which means I have a weekend off before the DCM. In which I might run a 16 miler just to keep the legs going.

Again thanks for the advice .

ooter

I'd cut the 16 miler down to maybe 14 RB2 but otherwise than that your plan looks fine.

Ososlo

As it's your first marathon you might like to join us on the Novices Thread for DCM.

Itziger

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

Thanks for the advice. First marathon so just went out and ran a pace I was kind of comfortable with. For instance I would be fine till the 15/16 mile marker but would be feeling fatigued in the legs from 16-20 miles.

I find it much easier to run with people so have been running in a group so kind of go at the pace they run. This must be doing untold damage to my body.

I'm not going to progress further than 24 miles that I will be running on this weekend. So I'm going to run two 24 miles, 1 this weekend and the second next weekend which means I have a weekend off before the DCM. In which I might run a 16 miler just to keep the legs going.

Again thanks for the advice .

24 this weekend seems fair enough, 24 the weekend after seems like a lot. More so if you're doing those Long Runs near MP. I'd cut the second one back to 20, either that or mixed pace but two 24's............ No.

RayCun

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

I'm not going to progress further than 24 miles that I will be running on this weekend. So I'm going to run two 24 miles, 1 this weekend and the second next weekend which means I have a weekend off before the DCM.

are you insane?
you're knackering yourself by running your long runs too fast, and now you plan to run 2 x 24 miles, most likely also too fast,and without matching mileage during the week
:rolleyes:

ooter

shirley RB2 is not being serious about the 24 milers?:eek:
i assumed it was a wind up..

rom

RayCun wrote: »

are you insane?
you're knackering yourself by running your long runs too fast, and now you plan to run 2 x 24 miles, most likely also too fast,and without matching mileage during the week
:rolleyes:

Some lessons are learned that hard way. I read the novice thread the first year but thought I knew better and did mad crazy fast and long runs. Ended up wrecked on the day and having to walk.

Rantan

2 x 24? for first marathon is mental..especially at that pace..unless you are one of the rare kind who can take high mileage and not suffer, but seeing as your first post is about suffering after long runs..well...go figure!
I only take electrolyte tabs(also before) and a pint of choc yazoo now after long runs

I was planning 1 x 22 in my lsr;s and have now decided against it, 18m is the max over teh next 3 weeks..I am slowly coming around to the logic of why run myself ragged and then wonder why ITB, calve, shinplints have flared up again...

audreyp

I have just been following this thread. I used to do my long runs wayyy too fast (for me!) too and have since got my V02 max test done (last June) and started doing my long runs at a crazy slow pace. I actually felt I would never get there. But at the end I felt great. I didn't feel too tired all day and felt like I could run longer. Then over the next 3 months, I gradually got faster. So my heart rate is in the 150s and my pace is about 30 sec a KM faster. Which is all great so definitely agree long runs should be slow. And just about getting there.

However I am hopefully doing DCM in October, my first one!! I'm running my long runs nice and slow (promise) but I have been wrecked after the longer runs. Notably the 15 mile and 18 mile. I enjoyed the 18 mile, but the 15 mile I picked an awful route. I felt like I could run forever but still when I got home by about 5pm I crashed. Felt like I could sleep on the couch. Anyway, is it normal to be tired the evening after a long run? I can't imagine doing anything that evening once the run is over 20K... I am fine the next day but that evening i'm fit for nothing!

RayCun

yeah, being tired that day is normal

Ron Burgundy II

So this weekend only got to 20miles. Started at an 8.15 pace but the slowed down to 8.45 pace. The run was very tough but that was done to my lack of preparation the night before ie eating the wrong food (take away) which resulted in a dash to toilet on the run:o

Just suffered with some tightness in the hamstring which on or about the 20mile marker a got a touch of cramp in the hamstring. So just strolled back home. Took on board this product which is quite nice to eat, followed by some Kinetica 100% recovery which was recommended on this tread.

today I feel fine, just a little tender around the achilles tendon, which gets tight now and then from the runs.

I'm thinking of doing a 22 mile run this weekend followed by 24 the following reducing down to 16/18 on the following weekend which gives me 7 days to recover.

Anyway seem to be a lot better to day then I have over previous runs

RayCun

are you reading anything in the thread above?:rolleyes:

rom

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

So this weekend only got to 20miles. Started at an 8.15 pace but the slowed down to 8.45 pace. The run was very tough but that was done to my lack of preparation the night before ie eating the wrong food (take away) which resulted in a dash to toilet on the run:o

Just suffered with some tightness in the hamstring which on or about the 20mile marker a got a touch of cramp in the hamstring. So just strolled back home. Took on board this product which is quite nice to eat, followed by some Kinetica 100% recovery which was recommended on this tread.

today I feel fine, just a little tender around the achilles tendon, which gets tight now and then from the runs.

I'm thinking of doing a 22 mile run this weekend followed by 24 the following reducing down to 16/18 on the following weekend which gives me 7 days to recover.

Anyway seem to be a lot better to day then I have over previous runs

Looking forward to the race report already.

crisco10

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

So this weekend only got to 20miles. Started at an 8.15 pace but the slowed down to 8.45 pace. The run was very tough but that was done to my lack of preparation the night before ie eating the wrong food (take away) which resulted in a dash to toilet on the run:o

Just suffered with some tightness in the hamstring which on or about the 20mile marker a got a touch of cramp in the hamstring. So just strolled back home. Took on board this product which is quite nice to eat, followed by some Kinetica 100% recovery which was recommended on this tread.

today I feel fine, just a little tender around the achilles tendon, which gets tight now and then from the runs.

I'm thinking of doing a 22 mile run this weekend followed by 24 the following reducing down to 16/18 on the following weekend which gives me 7 days to recover.

Anyway seem to be a lot better to day then I have over previous runs

What the lads above are getting at it is that a 7 day taper is not long enough for a marathon!

Most training plans peak mileage lsr is this week or so with a taper from then on.

dukeraoul

Ron Burgundy II wrote: »

So this weekend only got to 20miles. Started at an 8.15 pace but the slowed down to 8.45 pace. The run was very tough but that was done to my lack of preparation the night before ie eating the wrong food (take away) which resulted in a dash to toilet on the run:o

Just suffered with some tightness in the hamstring which on or about the 20mile marker a got a touch of cramp in the hamstring. So just strolled back home. Took on board this product which is quite nice to eat, followed by some Kinetica 100% recovery which was recommended on this tread.

today I feel fine, just a little tender around the achilles tendon, which gets tight now and then from the runs.

I'm thinking of doing a 22 mile run this weekend followed by 24 the following reducing down to 16/18 on the following weekend which gives me 7 days to recover.

Anyway seem to be a lot better to day then I have over previous runs

Sounds good to me. Id just do these on empty... final week (week of DCM I'd go 18/ 13/12/11/10/rest/9/8/ dcm come in nice and fresh.... best of luck i'm sure you'll smash it!

menoscemo

dukeraoul wrote: »

Sounds good to me. Id just do these on empty... final week (week of DCM I'd go 18/ 13/12/11/10/rest/9/8/ dcm come in nice and fresh.... best of luck i'm sure you'll smash it!

I don't know man, I am not sure that would be enough. If it were me I would try to run the full 26.2 about 4 days out just to make sure it's feasible

Ron Burgundy II

When I took up the training for the DCM only 6 weeks ago I felt that getting as much mileage under my belt was of importance. But clearly I'm completely of the mark. Will need to take a closer look at any future training plans with the comments above in mind

so this weekend is my final long run will be set at 22 miles max @ a 9min mile pace or slower as long as im comfortable with running.

Will then taper down over the following two weekends with the third weekend the DCM.

Again thanks for all the advice given.

Regards
Ron

MojoMaker

Best of luck in the race Ron. Big achievement to complete DCM as a first-timer and you'll have a much better idea of the do's and don'ts for future races. Will be tough but you'll feel brilliant having completed it.

Rantan

Got an almond/choclatey protein bar in supervalu for after Sundays long run. Think it was called prptein delite. Was the business, went down really well with the 750ml avonmore choc milk. Also becoming a fan of the non alco erdinger as a recovery drink. Very refreshing, not sure about its supposed isotonic benefits but i find it easier to drink after long runs than Lucozade. Etc