ATH First Round Match 2 : Lord TSC Vs Shagnasti

beakerjoe

And we are into the second match of the opening round of Around The Horn. It pitys ATH veterans, Lord TSC (Formerly TeamShadowclan) and Shagnasti!

The winner heads on to the Quarter Finals to meet the winner of Winnie v Garseys


Simplified version of the rules:

I will post a topic and you have to post your response including why you made that choice within a given time limit (before the next match is scheduled to begin), take care while making your responses however as the other contestant can counter your arguement i.e pointing out possible flaws in what youve said.

*you can only counter an arguement two times so make sure your point is worth making. If someone's defense of their arguement isnt good it will count against them.

*You can use the same answer as your opponent if you wish i.e you agree with their choice however its hard to win a debate when your making the same points someone has already made

see the OP of the main thread for further details or if any examples are needed check out previous years competitions.

Question 2: 9.99!!! Its a WWE Network question! The WWE Network needs you, Vince wants you to come up with a new original show that is fresh and a ratings. What would your show be? Why would this show be interesting and why would I watch? It has to be wrestling related and feature at least 1 WWE superstar or Personality currently on the payroll at WWE! Good luck!


After your first post: why would your choice be better than your opponents?

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g'luck and have at it folks!

a poll will be added after both competitors have replied the first time (postied twice, once with an answer and once with a reply)
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ShagNastii

Vince is looking for a show that will skyrocket the rating and subs for the Network? He needs to look no further than in the mirror. The most important man in WWE, hell make that wrestling history!!! As man we all admire, a man we all adore but a man that I think you will all agree we really know nothing about. We have seen the genetic jackhammer. The evil boss. The dastardly heel. The man in front of the camera.
Now let’s get a look at the man behind the camera. What does Vince McMahon do from day to day? What makes him the promotional genius that conquered the wrestling world and gave billion worldwide the world of sport entertainment? Completely different but so much alike you could compare the show to be pitched like Dana White and his blogs that appear on Twitter.

Include his day to day interactions with the talent, his employees and his extended family. Later more and more WWE have release at lot of backstage footage of backstage after great events. One that stands out was in the tribute to Mae Young. There was footage of Vince and he looks so happy and in a moment Mae mentions Vince’s dad and he gets quite choked up. It was such interesting view.

You could point at the naff Hogan knows best and the less naff Total Divas’ but they are a bit soft. The crux of this programme would be its reality, no spoiling edits. Give us the whole scale, from the mad men orchestrating RAW to doting granddad with his guard totally down.

Movies and TV shows are generally classed by their characters. There is a no more interesting character in the wrestling world than the chairman of the board Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

Lord TSC

To create a show that’s fresh, it needs to be something that takes WWE out of its comfort zone. In order to get people to sign up to watch it, it has to be something that isn’t just worth $9.99 but actually is worth a lot more, so that people think it’s value for money.

In my opinion, there’s already an overabundance of shows based around kayfabe and the “characters”. I’d, personally, want to see some shows about the actors behind the characters. Some of the most critically acclaimed shows they've put out so far have been the ones which gave us a glimpse behind the curtain. As such, I would propose the following show.

A WWE-Based Shoot Interview series where the wrestlers are able to slip out of character and conduct an interview for an extended period of time.

I would imagine the majority of wrestling fans online have listened to some form of shoot interview over their fandom. And WWE’s richest resource comes from the fact they have over 100 onscreen talents with diverse backgrounds and history. And that’s not counting the NXT guys or the wrestlers not on screens; legends, referees, agents, even writers. I realise many will have the idea of a grainy video camera picture of a wrestler on a couch, usually wrestlers who are bitter or have an agenda. Low production values, little to no access to tapes of matches and angles.

So imagine if WWE put their money behind a series of sit-down interviews with wrestlers and invited them to tell their stories, their tales from the roads, and supplemented them with pictures and clips that illustrated the stories. Now, I’ll stress, I’m not talking about the “Talking Head” style clips in between videos or whatever. This would be an intimate sitdown with a wrestler, who isn’t handed a script but does have an interviewer who can guide conversations if needs be. Some topics would be disallowed (legal actions, certain dead wrestlers, etc). But the strength would be that it would not be in character (or, at least, not entirely). It would be the wrestlers telling us some of their favourite stories.

The problem is WWE tends to not like breaking kayfabe, but that’s an archaic way of portraying their actors behind characters; in this day and age, fans know that The Undertaker isn’t a zombie, that Kane isn’t a pyromaniac. Imagine the chance to hear the likes of Mick Foley or Stone Cold tell stories of times past. The likes of Daniel Bryan or Sheamus discussing their journeys to the top. NXT guys like Zayn or Neville could use it to further introduce themselves. Guys like Rock, Batista and Jericho can talk about their careers outside WWE. Even saying that each employee gets one episode, you’re still talking about 100s of episodes. Episodes that wouldn’t cost that much to make (a set assembled somewhere, and a few young interns cutting in clips over the stories).

There’d obviously be some level of control exerted by WWE; they won’t want massively negative stories or people mouthing off about them. But that doesn’t mean there wouldn’t be 100s of hours worth of content that would be easy to tap into, yet would be something WWE haven’t really delved into as of yet. And that’s without doing special episodes; a “Shield Reunion” with all three members recounting tales of their first year together. A DX interview where various members discuss their shenanigans. Special guests like DDP, Bischoff, Donald Trump; such a show would have very little limits but would be a very attractive show for fans of the business, both those who want to learn about history, and those who know but want fresh perspectives.

To me, a shoot-interview style show, a genuine one not designed to revision history or get over/bury people, could have limitless potential, and be a steal if they put up 2-3 a month at $9.99.

ShagNastii

I think breaking kayfabe so openly would suck a certain amount of life out of the characters. Were all in on the fact that it's all a show but there is merit to not breaking kayfabe. Let's keep heels on that side and faces on the other.

Plus logistically I think that a lot of the participants would definitely hold back what they say. This would be would be clearly detrimental to the show. The way we know shoot interviews are fine as they are. The fact that they'd have the added production values and video wouldn't move any mountains.

Outside of the present roster- getting in other legends. There is no doubt it would be fun (I loved Shawn Vs Bret. WWE's Greatest Rivalries which would be very in the vein of what you are proposing) but how many stories can you trek out that we haven't heard in the countless DVD's and documentaries over the years.


With the Vince show it would be very fly on the wall. Pitch it that it will be no holds barred. It would be pretty win/win and like I said would really show us the kind of man Vince is. Could be utter car crash TV or it could be fascinating to see his life. I'll take either Vince in the gym at 4am talking pure sh*te or maybe gritter stuff, talking to Hunter and Steph about what WILL become of the WWE when Vince McMahon is no more.

Open up that until no mostly unread book at is Vince McMahon's 50 odd years in the wrestling business and I'll throw you my $9.99all day long.

Lord TSC

Don’t get me wrong, the idea of a Vince-centric quasi-reality show sounds awesome, and I’d definitely watch it. It could be awesome. But would it be enough to sway me into buying the network if I hadn’t already? I don’t know.

It’s a show with potential, but not limitless potential; there’s only going to be so many episodes, so many stories, and while I could imagine you’d get a very good show out of it, the reality is I think it would be short lived. A shoot style show has more room to grow, and, might I point out, could encompass Vince McMahon as well. There’d be nothing stopping some episodes of my show inviting Vince on to tell his stories, to let him discuss what he does. A shoot interview entitled “A Day in the Life of Vince McMahon” could let him talk and also, with the production values of WWE behind it, intersperse it with clips from behind the scenes too. Meanwhile, it’s not limited to just Vince.

I get there’s the adage of “Quality over quantity”, and while I concede that a show about Vince and what he does would be pure quality, I think a shoot-style interview show would have both. My show would be able to provide a real value for money, in both a short and long term, a show with no limits to how many stories can be told. You say there is limits, but the reality is that the “countless documentaries” have been limited to certain top level stars; the likes of Bryan, Sheamus, the NXT guys, Vince....there are plenty of stories which have not been broached, have not been given a platform to be told. Many of the wrestlers have careers spanning decades; to think that we’ve even heard a fraction of them is foolish. We’ve heard the biggest stories, but that doesn’t mean there’s not thousands more to be told.

I would point out that you throw the critique back at me that such a show would be limited in terms of what WWE would allow to be broadcast; that breaking kayfabe would suck some life out of characters. Yet at the same time, you also pitch that a Vince-centric show could break boundries and show him breaking kayfabe, talking about who to make champ and the likes. There’s a contradiction in such an argument. I’d again agree that a kayfabe-breaking show about Vince would be fantastic, but if the boss was willing to let such a show be created about himself, why would he have a problem with such shows about other wrestlers too.

A certain degree of kayfabe can still be maintained; I’m not talking about having Cena and Brock sit down the day before they start kicking the **** out of each other and acting friendly. But there’s a level you can break while also still maintaining some as well. You don’t have to break much kayfabe to acknowledge that these superstars travel the roads together, engage in adventures together. When you see Kane at the Hall of Fame recounting stories of Paul Bearer, you don’t see people complaining about him breaking kayfabe or struggling to understand his character. Kane, in particular, would have so much quality stories to tell, and people would accept a certain degree of kayfabe-breaking in this modern era.

Fans want, as you rightly acknowledge with your idea, to see behind the curtain, to see the men and women behind the characters. I just don’t want to limit it to one person, as exciting as that individual would be. Let’s throw back the curtain 90% of the way, and give people not just the stories of Vince McMahon, but of everyone from top to bottom who have stories to tell.

beakerjoe

Poll will close just after 7 tonight. Both competitors can reply once more also

ShagNastii

It is easy to see comparisons to both ideas. The main difference is the fly on the wall VS formal interviews. As I mentioned in my original post the tone of my pitched show would be akin to the YouTube blogs posted by Dana White during their marquee events. We wouldn't pry into issues with talent, we'd sit back on just see what happens. Even if it was put on the Network every month I think you could be an exciting watch.

Why not just put such a show on WWE.com or WWE YouTube channel? Well we are looking for subs and new viewers. Let's put this show exclusively on the network in and around our monthly PPVs. Nothing better than when Sky Sports 3 becomes the WWE channel when there is a bit PPV in the offing. With the medium of the network a fly on the wall doc for the month would fit in great with the pre-show to get the fans interested.

Lord TSC

Once again, I completely agree, and stress that I believe your idea is a very good one.

It is though, in my opinion, quite simple. My idea, I feel, has more potential, has more long term value (something vital in this hypothetical, as we're discussing the best ways to get people to subscribe and pay for the show) and can, in many ways, incorporate many elements of your show.

However, a Vince-centric show does not offer the same opportunities to encompass the stories of other people as well. A Vince-centric show, as amazing as it would be, could have a short shelf life (particularly when you're trying to center on someone known for rash and snap decisions with regards cancelling products and angles. Even if he sticks with it long term, how many board meetings can we see? How many booking meetings, ifhe'd even let the cameras into one?). Further, you say you wouldn't "pry"; surely that would be the entire point of your show; to "pry" into the life of Vince and see him in action behind the scenes.

The difference to me is simply the range of people who would get the chance to tell their stories; yours focuses in on one man, an amazing man who'd produce an amazing show. But still one man. I would try and cover so much, and would provide 100s of hours of easy content, something which would easily bring in that $9.99 a month on a larger scale. YOur show would bring people in but would it prove to be something that makes people pay $9.99 not just this month but next month and the month after?

I guess thats for others to decide with their votes