Polish Passport For Child

Bombbastic22

Went to court recently to apply for guardianship of my child who I've been minding 5 days a week since he was two (he's 5 now). I'm Irish and he has a Polish mother. She has retaliated with a Safety Order and maintenance order summons, but her solicitor said they'd drop the safety order if I agree to sign for a Polish passport. (Both the safety order and maintenance order were unwarranted for reasons I won't go into).

Nobody, including my own solicitor, has any clue as to any legal implications such a thing would have.

Anybody here have any info?

Help!!!!

Polish passport.....maybe easier to get the child out of the country

johnnyskeleton

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Went to court recently to apply for guardianship of my child who I've been minding 5 days a week since he was two (he's 5 now). I'm Irish and he has a Polish mother. She has retaliated with a Safety Order and maintenance order summons, but her solicitor said they'd drop the safety order if I agree to sign for a Polish passport. (Both the safety order and maintenance order were unwarranted for reasons I won't go into).

Nobody, including my own solicitor, has any clue as to any legal implications such a thing would have.

Anybody here have any info?

Have you considered getting a different solicitor? Im amazed that your current one would simply say "I dont know and am not bothered to check, so why not try the internet"

Little CuChulainn

If i recall, a safety order can only be issued against someone who has resided in the same premises for six out of the last 12 months. If you have not been living with the mother for 3 years your solicitor should be able to get that sorted. You should definitely get a solicitor to handle it though because I've seen more than one judge issue orders completely contrary to this.

Bombbastic22

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Have you considered getting a different solicitor? Im amazed that your current one would simply say "I dont know and am not bothered to check, so why not try the internet"

I rang another solicitor and also the free legal advice centre, citizen's info and Treoir. Nobody has any clue. A well respected friend believes it'll mean that he, my child, will come under Polish law and that his mum will hence be able to apply to the courts in Poland, effectively making my guardianship rights worthless.

It's hard to find any concrete info. I realise posting on a forum isn't ideal, but I figured many people out there must have had experience of this and may be able to provide a little insight which I'm having a lot of difficulty finding.

johnnyskeleton

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

I rang another solicitor and also the free legal advice centre, citizen's info and Treoir. Nobody has any clue. A well respected friend believes it'll mean that he, my child, will come under Polish law and that his mum will hence be able to apply to the courts in Poland, effectively making my guardianship rights worthless.

It's hard to find any concrete info. I realise posting on a forum isn't ideal, but I figured many people out there must have had experience of this and may be able to provide a little insight which I'm having a lot of difficulty finding.

It may not be something that a solicitor can answer over the phone. Give them some time to look into it, get counsels advice if needs be, or maybe pay a bit more for a solicitor who specialises in family law/immigration.

on_my_oe

Both Ireland and Poland are signatories to The Hague Convention. Smarter folk than I will be able to correct/clarify here, but my general understanding is the removal of a child from its habitual residence is prohibited without permission of both parents. My mother planned to immigrate with us, and my father (thankfully) prevented it, and his argument included a reference to The Hague Convention.

Bombbastic22

on_my_oe wrote: »

Both Ireland and Poland are signatories to The Hague Convention. Smarter folk than I will be able to correct/clarify here, but my general understanding is the removal of a child from its habitual residence is prohibited without permission of both parents. My mother planned to immigrate with us, and my father (thankfully) prevented it, and his argument included a reference to The Hague Convention.

Does that stand up even if one of the parents doesn't have Guardianship rights? Ah, I just read that it stands up if you've applied.

I still suspect there's something sinister about wanting a Polish passport, as I doubt she'd go to such lengths to get it on the basis of it simply being a nice thing to have.

Peregrinus

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

I rang another solicitor and also the free legal advice centre, citizen's info and Treoir. Nobody has any clue. A well respected friend believes it'll mean that he, my child, will come under Polish law and that his mum will hence be able to apply to the courts in Poland, effectively making my guardianship rights worthless.

It will not mean that. Irish family law relating to guardianship, custody etc does not depend on the citizenship of the child, still less on whether the child holds a passport.

Apart from its symbolic significance, a passport is a travel document. If the child has a passport (Polish, Irish or from any other country), and if the child's mother has custody of the passport, it will be easier for her to take the child out of the country. Depending on the circumstances, it may well be unlawful for her to do that, but in practical terms it will be easier.

Carawaystick

Has the child an Irish Passport already?

GerardKeating

Carawaystick wrote: »

Has the child an Irish Passport already?

and if not, maybe not agree to that either.

Victor

Are Polish people allowed have dual citizenship? If not, the child's Irish citizenship might be compromised, as would any Irish passport.

If safety (as above) and maintenance (you have the child most of the time) orders are unlikely, given the circumstances, then what is she giving you at all?

I suspect the real motivation is to take the child to Poland (or a third country).

Help!!!!

Victor wrote: »

I suspect the real motivation is to take the child to Poland (or a third country).

I agree, She would not be asked many questions ( if any ) travelling mother & child on Polish passports.
Chances of being found in Poland is very slim.

Pro Hoc Vice

Victor wrote: »

Are Polish people allowed have dual citizenship? If not, the child's Irish citizenship might be compromised, as would any Irish passport.

If safety (as above) and maintenance (you have the child most of the time) orders are unlikely, given the circumstances, then what is she giving you at all?

I suspect the real motivation is to take the child to Poland (or a third country).

Polish are allowed dual citizenship. Even if it was disallowed as the child is under 18 the getting of a Polish passport could not deny the child of Irish Citizenship as only an Adult can renounce citizenship and can not do so on behalf of a child.

Victor

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

Polish are allowed dual citizenship. Even if it was disallowed as the child is under 18 the getting of a Polish passport could not deny the child of Irish Citizenship as only an Adult can renounce citizenship and can not do so on behalf of a child.

The mother's solicitor will no doubt attempt otherwise with whatever agreement is proposed.

Pro Hoc Vice

Victor wrote: »

The mother's solicitor will no doubt attempt otherwise with whatever agreement is proposed.

I do not understand. I made no comment on the mother or her advisors motives.i simply pointed out two facts one the child if entitled is allowed to have both passports (we have no evidence to confirm the child is in fact etitked to irish) but assuming the child is an irish citizen his irish nationality can not be revoked till 18 under irish law. That does not mean nor did I say that the child can not be brought to poland by the mother against the will of the father nor does it mean The Hague Conventionwill not apply.

Without knowing all the circumstances of this family no one can say what is, might or could happen.

Bombbastic22

Carawaystick wrote: »

Has the child an Irish Passport already?

Yes

Pro Hoc Vice

Bombbastic22 wrote: »

Yes

Who holds that passport.