Effect of mileage on car value

albob

Hi,
I am in the middle of discussions with my insurance company about the value of my written off car. They have come a long way from their starting point. The current status is that we have a similar car that sold recently, but had 45,000 less Kms. The insurance company say that the "book" tells them that the car will lose ~€40 value per 1,000kms. This seems high to me and when I talk to some dealers they say that 45,000kms would mean a 500-1000 euro price difference (they either said 500-750, or 750-1000).

Does anyone have knowledge in this area, and know what a fair reduction per 1000kms would be? I know it will depend on the car, and I am talking about a car in the Hyundai i30 class. I want to find out what this book is

Thanks
Alan

Nody

Well it would depend on the starting value you're using; there's a big difference in depreciation between 5000 vs. 50.000 and 150.000 vs. 195.000...

albob

Fair point. 10000 vs 55000.

Toyotafanboi

why don't you just tell us what the car and ballpark mileage figure are and we can tell you what it's worth.

make/ model:
year:
mileage:
NCT:

fmcg_scribe

In the UK, What Car and Parkers publish price guides for used cars (available in all good newsagents). Indicative prices are quoted for different mileage ranges and for private v non-franchise v franchise dealer.

Glass's Guide is still favoured by many UK motor dealers.

What are the options in Ireland?

OP could ask insurance company which price guide is being used by them. Depending on the answer to that question, OP could approach someone in the trade who's involved in valuing used cars to guage whether car is being valued fairly against that reference value.

Finally, could OP surmise open market selling price of car from the Revenue's VRT calculator (https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrtenquiry.html?execution=e1s1).

R.O.R

"The Book" gives a write down to use for under/over mileage.

Amount to write up/down depends on the guide value and the year.

€40 per 1,000km is the standard downward adjustment for an 08 or 09 vehicle that has a guide value of less than €10,000.

albob

Hi,
Sorry for the vagueness. It's a 2012 Kia Cee'd, EX spec, new model. 56000km. Perfect condition.
I guess if they are using book value for fuel adjustment, they should use book value for value?
I am looking for 16500. They are at 15600 now (started at 14250)
Cheers

Casati

Revenue website says is worth 13250 assuming its an estate. I'd take the offer and run!

George Dalton

€15600 sounds like a fair price tbh.

scwazrh

that seems to be a very good offer , why do you think its worth 16,500 ?Thats a lot more than most are advertised at

reelkidmusic

Casati wrote: »

Revenue website says is worth 13250 assuming its an estate. I'd take the offer and run!

I don't think that this is fair advice. You should hold out for as much as you are willing to settle for (within reason of course). If they're at 15600, they're not going to drop down below this figure. To help your case, you need to get as many examples of similar mileage and spec models advertised for sale. The argument you have to put across to the insurance is the cost of replacement that will be incurred by you and whether or not you feel you can replace the vehicle for 15600 or 16500. I would imagine that insurance will probably settle somewhere between the two values.

albob

It would take a very long post to fully explain my 16500 valuation. It's the new model Cee'd. One sold last week for 17500. Another available for 17250 (negotiated price). Lower spec model available for 15600. Taking into account spec difference and adjusting it for depreciation would bring that up to 16600.
Insurance company have accepted my arguments on several of their original claims. Millage deduction is the last one. Several dealers have said that there is no way there's a €1900 difference between a 9000km car and a 56000km car. I'm not sure.
What I'd like to know id whats the book value of the car. I assume to book gives a price, and then a millage adjustment. One dealer told me today that the book value was 18850. Adjust that for millage according to the book would bring it down to roughly my valuation. However that dealer was also trying to sell me a car so can't trust the claimed book value. My belief I'd that the book generally goes low in value do 18850 seems high.
In terms of the vrt site, the Cee'd 2 hatchback is the closest. It's OMSP is ~14000. There is no chance of buying the new model at that value. You might get a low fuel old model. If looking at the cars available ensure your are looking at the new model/body. Only 3 currently available from SIMI dealers.

Is the "book" available to ordinary Joe soaps? I'm amazed someone hasn't put it out there.

copey

Has it got a service history?

jcon1913

Your job is to get the settlement figure up. Their job is to get it down.

Simple.

Anything you can, use it.

Previous posters have given you sources of info but ideally youd see a comparable car for sale. Then you'd be home and hosed.

R.O.R

albob wrote: »

Hi,
Sorry for the vagueness. It's a 2012 Kia Cee'd, EX spec, new model. 56000km. Perfect condition.
I guess if they are using book value for fuel adjustment, they should use book value for value?
I am looking for 16500. They are at 15600 now (started at 14250)
Cheers

Book value of a 2012 C'eed 1.6D EX 5dr Hatch is €16,900 with 58,000km.

1.4d version is €16,4000 with 58k.

Mileage adjustment is €45 per 1,000km, meaning yours with 56,000km is worth €90 more than book value above.


The book is generally working out pretty accurate at the moment. Was way off a few years ago, but market has settled and it's proving to be a decent guide at the moment.


We generally use the book to get pre-accident values for anything on the fleet that's written off, but also run it past a dealer and get their thoughts.

I'd be pushing the insurer to settle at book value, which is what you are looking for.

Hope that helps.

albob

Thanks R.O.R.

How can I get my hands on this "book". It would be nice to be able to send a scanned copy of the relevant page to the insurance company, as well as its name/publisher. Seeing as I have already stated I'd be happy with 16,500, I'd still be happy with that. Having the "book" value would really strengthen my argument.

Thanks

R.O.R

albob wrote: »

Thanks R.O.R.

How can I get my hands on this "book". It would be nice to be able to send a scanned copy of the relevant page to the insurance company, as well as its name/publisher. Seeing as I have already stated I'd be happy with 16,500, I'd still be happy with that. Having the "book" value would really strengthen my argument.

Thanks

The "book" is The Motor Trade Publishers Car Sales Guide - figures are from the September 2014 guide.

It's a trade only publication, and I've probably broken some sort of code of conduct by giving you this info already :P Not quite sure why it's such a closely guarded secret.

I'd be pretty sure that your insurer has access to a copy of the book. Personally, I'd be going back to them saying that you've checked the book value with someone in the trade, and you'd be happy to settle at book value.

If they still don't play ball, send me a PM and I'll happily stick something on our headed paper confirming the pre accident value. I could also forward a ludicrous invoice for my consultancy fee - that put the sh1ts up my insurer when I was arguing a settlement with them last year. They didn't pay it, but did eventually settle for €125 less than I initially requested, but also had to pay the €100 fee for an independent assessor who confirmed my valuation.

albob

All excellent advice. Yes, there does seem to be an omerta around that book! Thanks for the details. Lets see what they come back with now.

albob

As an update they have not budged. They are happy to take the value the car sold at in the forecourt (17,500) and apply the book mileage discount to this (1900). I have tried to argue that it would seem unfair to use the book for a mileage discount, but not then apply that to the book value of the car. Several dealers I have spoken to have said that there is not a €1900 difference between a 9,000km car and a 56,000km car. €750 would be the consensus....but I would be happy to take a €1000 adjustment and accept 16,500. I would of thought that if you are quoting something from the book, then it all should come from the book.

Perhaps I'm crazy.

R.O.R

albob wrote: »

As an update they have not budged. They are happy to take the value the car sold at in the forecourt (17,500) and apply the book mileage discount to this (1900). I have tried to argue that it would seem unfair to use the book for a mileage discount, but not then apply that to the book value of the car. Several dealers I have spoken to have said that there is not a €1900 difference between a 9,000km car and a 56,000km car. €750 would be the consensus....but I would be happy to take a €1000 adjustment and accept 16,500. I would of thought that if you are quoting something from the book, then it all should come from the book.

Perhaps I'm crazy.

Now they are just pulling the p1ss.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/results?searchsource=finder&nParam=4294910713%2B200773%2B200772%2B200772%2B200773&channel=CARS#nParam=4294910713%2B200773%2B200772%2B200772%2B200773%2B200590%2B102456%2B102550%2B200488%2B200484&sortby=Make%7C0&channel=CARS&currency=EUROS&searchResultsView=THUMBNAIL&maxrows=10

is coming up with vehicles of around the same value as you are looking for. Bit of negotiation would bring purchase cost down a bit, but the few there that I've checked are UK imports, so you'd be looking to include the costs of replacing the MPH clocks with KM/H clocks to bring it to the same specification as you had (presuming yours wasn't an import?)

I know Km's are on the import clocks, but it's just not the same having them as the small numbers on the inside, and can affect your concentration and ability to stick to the speed limits. You only want to be put back in to the position you were in before, no more, but definitely no less.

Enquire if they would like you to appoint an independent assessor to value the vehicle.

You're not dealing with a crowd in the UK for valuations are you?

albob

Yes, UK crowd, and getting less and less friendly

I have been trying to find an independent valuer but it all seems to be online forms. I did a couple which agree with my valuation, but I suspect I'd need a human interface for credibility. Any suggestions?

jcon1913

albob wrote: »

Yes, UK crowd, and getting less and less friendly

I have been trying to find an independent valuer but it all seems to be online forms. I did a couple which agree with my valuation, but I suspect I'd need a human interface for credibility. Any suggestions?

I dealt with a claim several years ago.. Luckily it wasnt from my insurance company as it was the other guys fault.

They dragged it out for a month so I was without the car etc. I told them I was referring the matter to my solicitor who would charge 50 euros for every phone call letter and fax from that date..

They weren't long settling then, the s*hitbgs, and for about 2,000 more than they were offerring.

They are under orders to keep the claims down, and that translates into ripping you off. Stick to your guns, after all how long would it take for you to save the €1,000 you are short in your claim now?

PM me if you want a few tips, but dont let them rip you off.

R.O.R

albob wrote: »

Yes, UK crowd, and getting less and less friendly

?

albob wrote: »

I have been trying to find an independent valuer but it all seems to be online forms. I did a couple which agree with my valuation, but I suspect I'd need a human interface for credibility. Any suggestions?

I appointed https://www.cmhegarty.ie/ to do an independent valuation, and RSA caved based on their valuation, which turned out to be the same as my initial valuation.

I used to work with one of their assessors, so think I got it a bit cheaper than it should have been, but it was all done above board, by Mr. Hegarty himself, without him knowing how much I was looking for.

albob

Cheers. I'll give them a call. He might be ale to advise very quickly whether he would agree with the process used by the company, or even if its worth my while. I assume there is no obligation for the insurance company to accept his valuation and then its to the ombudsman. Could get expensive if I lose!

Casati

reelkidmusic wrote: »

I don't think that this is fair advice. You should hold out for as much as you are willing to settle for (within reason of course). If they're at 15600, they're not going to drop down below this figure. To help your case, you need to get as many examples of similar mileage and spec models advertised for sale. The argument you have to put across to the insurance is the cost of replacement that will be incurred by you and whether or not you feel you can replace the vehicle for 15600 or 16500. I would imagine that insurance will probably settle somewhere between the two values.

Your right, I assumed that it was old model and also assumed that the revenue.ie site was basically the trade value- I'd heard that it was basically the simi book values but that must be bad advise

I honestly think 16500 is a lot of dough for a Ceed 5 door wearing a 12 plate- I know its not the same spec but when you see a 141 Ceed SW 1.4 in Gowan for 18700 I think the insurance company bid isn't a bad one, though for sure try to get as much as you can out of them

albob

FYI....settled this morning at 16. Happy enough with it.
Thanks all.