15% Reduction In Local Property Tax Approved By Wicklow County Council

DazMarz

In a near unanimous vote earlier today, Wicklow County Council voted to reduce the Local Property Tax rate by the maximum amount that the local authority was permitted, 15%. The vote was done by the 32 County Councillors, with 31 voting in favour and 1 against.

This is good news for a lot of people and while it may not save an incredible amount of money in real terms, it is still a step in the right direction, IMO. Wicklow had one of the highest rates of return on the LPT; only Dublin City Council and Fingal County Council would have higher rates of return on the LPT, and looking at the figures, Wicklow can well afford to lower the rate.

foxy06

I'd hate to be the 1

Annasopra

Who was the one against?

Annasopra

It makes WCC much harder to manage by cutting funds.

zoobizoo

Providing a full time fire service for Bray would cost €1.5 million. The recently passed 15% cut to LPT will cost €2.6 million.

Recondite49

zoobizoo wrote: »

Providing a full time fire service for Bray would cost €1.5 million. The recently passed 15% cut to LPT will cost €2.6 million.

So let's increase income tax and let those who earn more more pay for it, not have a blanket tax which affects poor people disproportionately.

Wally Runs

Recondite49 wrote: »

So let's increase income tax and let those who earn more more pay for it, not have a blanket tax which affects poor people disproportionately.

At the risk of getting side tracked, how is it a 'blanket tax'. It is not a single flat tax, but charged on the market value your property? I accept it does not take into account the earning ability of the property owner, but it does reflect the value of their assets, realisable or otherwise.

Time will tell how (and if) the reductions will impact on the provision of community services at large. Will the same 31 Councillors be stamping their feet and have mournful photos published and demand that WCC do more when services are cut? I think they will.

I do agree there is need for reform in how we pay for services in Wicklow and the country though.

Annasopra

Wally Runs wrote: »

Will the same 31 Councillors be stamping their feet and have mournful photos published and demand that WCC do more when services are cut? I think they will.

Any Cllr who complains about budget cuts should be called out on it tbh.

BoJack Horseman

Did they vote on revenue rises elsewhere to compensate?

Alun

Populism is popular

Cerco

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Any Cllr who complains about budget cuts should be called out on it tbh.

I agree but he/she may have a strong point to make. Voting on reducing income from property tax without knowing the level of government funding is putting the cart before the horse.

DazMarz

I think most councillors had a straight choice:

-Reduce the Property Tax by 15%

or

-Be hanged from the nearest lamppost

Annasopra

DazMarz wrote: »

I think most councillors had a straight choice:

-Reduce the Property Tax by 15%

or

-Be hanged from the nearest lamppost

In my view populist auction politics won the day and every single member of Wicklow County Council is afraid to stand for something.

In looking to the next general election where there are promises to abolish water charges and property tax perhaps we should look back at the populist auction politics of 1974 getting rid of rates and the hugely negative consequences that had.

Only in Ireland could you have socialists and nationalists claiming to be socialist opposing property tax!

Who gains the most from that 15% cut? Thats right the wealthiest!

RayM

DazMarz wrote: »

I think most councillors had a straight choice:

-Reduce the Property Tax by 15%

or

-Be hanged from the nearest lamppost

Not if they could prove that the 15% would be spent well.

Few, for instance, would argue against a full-time fire service in Bray.

ellejay

Cllr. Tommy Cullen vored no to the reduction
2 Abstained.

According to the Bray People "Cllr. Tommy Cullen said he wouldn't be supporting the 15 per cent reduction as it would still mean people had to pay 85 per cent of an unjustified tax."

RosieJoe

RayM wrote: »

Not if they could prove that the 15% would be spent well.

Few, for instance, would argue against a full-time fire service in Bray.

The problem with this logic is that the 15% cut comes out of the entire County's kitty. So Bray's fire service only affects a small area of the county. I don't think someone in Baltinglass would be too happy on their tax being used on something that they'd definitely not benefit from.

And it was Cllr. Tommy Cullen who voted against.

DazMarz

I think, in all fairness, it was a good thing on principle, but in real money terms it amounts to very, very little. Most people will not make a genuine saving out of it. And the irritating part for most people is that the "saved" money will most likely go towards the water charges.

While I fully agree it was a populist move on the part of all the councillors, it was well known beforehand that the three parties (Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin) were all going to vote in favour of the 15% reduction. That's 21 of the 32 councillors right off the bat. Steven Matthews of the Greens also said he'd be voting in favour. That's 22 and a solid majority if ever there was one, and that's without counting any of the Independents. To vote against, you risked becoming the lone "dissenting voice".

While it did reduce the money that Wicklow County Council has to play around with, it is also worth noting that the budget of Wicklow County Council will be largely unaffected thanks to NPPR funding that is untapped. In fact, there will be an "extra" €880,000 or so on the discretionary budget for Wicklow County Council this year, despite the 15% decrease.

Annasopra

DazMarz wrote: »

I think, in all fairness, it was a good thing on principle, but in real money terms it amounts to very, very little. Most people will not make a genuine saving out of it. And the irritating part for most people is that the "saved" money will most likely go towards the water charges.

While I fully agree it was a populist move on the part of all the councillors, it was well known beforehand that the three parties (Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin) were all going to vote in favour of the 15% reduction. That's 21 of the 32 councillors right off the bat. Steven Matthews of the Greens also said he'd be voting in favour. That's 22 and a solid majority if ever there was one, and that's without counting any of the Independents. To vote against, you risked becoming the lone "dissenting voice".

While it did reduce the money that Wicklow County Council has to play around with, it is also worth noting that the budget of Wicklow County Council will be largely unaffected thanks to NPPR funding that is untapped. In fact, there will be an "extra" €880,000 or so on the discretionary budget for Wicklow County Council this year, despite the 15% decrease.

It was very little for the people (again the Wealthiest gained the most though!) But its not such a little amount for WCC.

Cllrs could have used this money in so many creative ways - it could have been spent on housing, disability access (the full time disability access officer WCC used to have was never replaced), road repairs, homeless services, park improvements (look at dlrcc for wonderful park amenities).

I know many of the County Councillors work hard on behalf of their constituents but honestly they have all lost an opportunity to do something really creative that could have improved quality of life throughout the county.

I don't understand your argument that on principle it was a good decision. You haven't given any back up points about why it was a good decision.

RosieJoe

From here

Local Authority Funding
•Revenue from the LPT will support the provision of local services.
•Internationally, local services are administered by local authorities and financed by local service charges.
• In Ireland, local authorities are responsible for, among other
services, public parks; libraries; open spaces and leisure amenities; planning and development; fire and emergency services; maintenance and cleaning of streets; and street lighting. These facilities benefit everyone.

Suggesting that the LPT should be used on the likes of Housing would be a non runner to start. Creative ways to spend the money would probably meet nothing but opposition from the public and/or Cllrs. if it didn't adhere to how the money can be allocated for spending

Annasopra

RosieJoe wrote: »

From here



Suggesting that the LPT should be used on the likes of Housing would be a non runner to start. Creative ways to spend the money would probably meet nothing but opposition from the public and/or Cllrs. if it didn't adhere to how the money can be allocated for spending

Is there a law saying it can't be spent on housing?

RosieJoe

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Is there a law saying it can't be spent on housing?

I'm not too sure if there is a law TBH.

Annasopra

RosieJoe wrote: »

I'm not too sure if there is a law TBH.

I was just wondering as I'm not sure what that document is and if there is actually something written in law.

Cookie_Monster

Doesn't that just mean Dublin will subsidise more of Wicklows funding requirements rather than have it direct funded?

BoJack Horseman

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Doesn't that just mean Dublin will subsidise more of Wicklows funding requirements rather than have it direct funded?

Wicklow is one of the few counties that pays its way, she gets no subsidy from Dublin taxpayers

On the other hand, Dublin would feel quite parched were it not for Wicklow's water supplying it.