KINGMAN RETIRED

FIVE2_THREE

He had a good run. Hopefully history will be kind to him. running after Frankel is no easy task.

tryfix

It's a shame he never had the competition to let us see how good he could really be. Will make a quality sire with the pedigree he has and with the outfit standing him. Considering that he wasn't injured it's disappointing that they chose to retire him instead of giving him another year. History will be kind to him, but he'll just be remembered as another decent miler rather than as an outstanding one.

DylanAFC

Beaten in the only race he had a bit of competition. Was he really that good? We'll never know sadly.

Hidden Cyclone

DylanAFC wrote: »

Beaten in the only race he had a bit of competition. Was he really that good? We'll never know sadly.

But then beat the winner comfortably at Ascot

I thought he might stay in training, Juddemonte don't seem to be shy about racing good horses at 4

FIVE2_THREE

Hidden Cyclone wrote: »

But then beat the winner comfortably at Ascot

I thought he might stay in training, Juddemonte don't seem to be shy about racing good horses at 4

True, Khalid has said in the past that his only regret in racing was not racing Dancing Brave at 4. Maybe Not Racing King Man at 4 will replace that regret. I myself don't understand the rush to stud. He will not command the same book or attention Frankel does.

tryfix

Hidden Cyclone wrote: »

But then beat the winner comfortably at Ascot

I thought he might stay in training, Juddemonte don't seem to be shy about racing good horses at 4

There are big holes in the Ascot form ( Night Of Thunder just didn't run up to his Guineas form ) and there are huge problems with the Sussex and Deauville form.

Yuften beaten 4 3/4l by Kingman at Ascot went on to be beaten 6l by Captain Cat. Prince Of All beaten 6l by Kingman went on to be beaten 8l by Free Eagle. Outstrip beaten 3 1/4l at Ascot went on to finish 3l behind Kingman in the Sussex with 112 rated Darwin 1 3/4l ahead of him and we all know how big of a donkey Darwin is. Toormore beaten 6l by Kingman went on to split 109 and 110 rated horses and was beaten by a 107 rated horse in his next race.

There's enough collateral form to all his races to suggest that Kingman's 126 rating is very fortunate and that Juddmonte are wise enough to get out while the going is good.

hawkeyethenoo

tryfix wrote: »

There are big holes in the Ascot form ( Night Of Thunder just didn't run up to his Guineas form ) and there are huge problems with the Sussex and Deauville form.

Yuften beaten 4 3/4l by Kingman at Ascot went on to be beaten 6l by Captain Cat. Prince Of All beaten 6l by Kingman went on to be beaten 8l by Free Eagle. Outstrip beaten 3 1/4l at Ascot went on to finish 3l behind Kingman in the Sussex with 112 rated Darwin 1 3/4l ahead of him and we all know how big of a donkey Darwin is. Toormore beaten 6l by Kingman went on to split 109 and 110 rated horses and was beaten by a 107 rated horse in his next race.

There's enough collateral form to all his races to suggest that Kingman's 126 rating is very fortunate and that Juddmonte are wise enough to get out while the going is good.

you have always been way too harsh on kingman. far better horse than australia.

kingman is a smashing miler with a serious turn of foot. i do enjoy reading your posts on the flat but you definitely take ratings too literally, they aren't the be all and end all when judging the horse. in most of his races he exploded in the last furlong or 2 and won impressively and easily, the better the opposition the better he would have looked. he beat darwin and a few other donkeys in a slowly run race fair enough but it was visually how he did it. kingman for me is an outstanding miler, gorgeous specimen of a horse with on of the best turn of foots ive seen. outstanding horse shame we wont see this beast again.

As the sectionals show, Kingman ran faster at the end of an admittedly steadily-run race than did Sole Power in winning one of the world’s premier sprints just 40 minutes earlier. His 22.35s for the last two furlongs on a slightly uphill finish is the fastest I can find at the track at any distance. Bated Breath’s 22.87s (TurfTrax time) when second in the 2012 King’s Stand had been bettered by Sole Power earlier on, of course.

That sectional – as well as a last three furlongs of about 34.2s (108.6%) – identifies Kingman as a truly exceptional horse, one likely to rate well into the 130s and maybe even higher. It suggests that, on the day, he can be rated something like three lengths better than the bare result, with War Command emerging as second-best with comfortably the next-fastest finish.

Peintre Celebre

Hawk eye it is easy to get sucked into the visual appearance of a horse but ratings are the whole foundation of the sport. The fact Darwin finished so close is a worry given he would struggle to win a group 3. He got a rating of 119 after that run, 117 was his highest before that and he got smashes by Brendan Bracken (gr.3 form). Outstrip probably will never win a group race again and Toronado was beaten in a shocking he.1 in France. The form cannot lie

hawkeyethenoo

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Hawk eye it is easy to get sucked into the visual appearance of a horse but ratings are the whole foundation of the sport. The fact Darwin finished so close is a worry given he would struggle to win a group 3. He got a rating of 119 after that run, 117 was his highest before that and he got smashes by Brendan Bracken (gr.3 form). Outstrip probably will never win a group race again and Toronado was beaten in a shocking he.1 in France. The form cannot lie

obviously ratings are there for a reason and i didnt mean to come across as saying they are bull**** or anything. but darwin finished so close because the way the race was ran. i think kingman was outstanding, form might not be the strongest but i believe the stronger the opponent the better he would be but we wont find that out now. he has a certain style of racing that was a joy to watch, we will never find out how good he could have been.

tryfix

hawkeyethenoo wrote: »

you have always been way too harsh on kingman. far better horse than australia.

kingman is a smashing miler with a serious turn of foot. i do enjoy reading your posts on the flat but you definitely take ratings too literally, they aren't the be all and end all when judging the horse. in most of his races he exploded in the last furlong or 2 and won impressively and easily, the better the opposition the better he would have looked. he beat darwin and a few other donkeys in a slowly run race fair enough but it was visually how he did it. kingman for me is an outstanding miler, gorgeous specimen of a horse with on of the best turn of foots ive seen. outstanding horse shame we wont see this beast again.

Fair enough points. I will just point out that the 130s rating mentioned in that quoted piece you used is a timeform rating and they use a higher numbered scale than the official ratings do. And they fail to take into account that Kingman emptied fairly quickly at the end of the guineas so their assumptions that he had another 3l in hand can be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

Kingman was a cracking horse for sure with a sprinters turn of foot and as such was perfectly entitled to produce a sprinters finish against inferior rivals. That he slightly bettered the finishing time of a modest in historical terms sprinter like Sole Power ( rated 115 at the time ) means little. We just don't get the real high class well bred ( like Kingman ) sprinters anymore.

Peintre Celebre

The lack of Danzig, Danehill, Nureyev means we probably won't for a while too

Huntthe

Lets hope he doesn't throw the really Grammy off fore.