Why some women run with their leg out wide on lift?

viperlogic

Wasn't sure how to phrase the title! It has been something I have noticed for awhile now, especially on yesterdays LSR. Why do a lot of women, not all of course, when lifting the foot off the ground it goes out sideways rather than straight up. Is it their bio-mechanics are banjaxed from wearing heels etc or ? I have seen the same behavior by a few men but v v rarely.

sconhome

Wider hips and bigger divergence from the centre line of their body?

Reason why shoes are engineered differently for women & men.

dna_leri

Do you mean like this?



It does not seem to affect her running: 1st in Paris and New York; 2nd in Olympics and World Champs.

See analysis of Priscilla Jeptoo's running style here and here.

viperlogic

Kind off. Ones I've seen the leg comes out away wider and not as high. Comes out about 45 degrees

Stazza

It's to do with their 'Q angle' - best way to combat it is reverse clams; great exercise for prepubescent girls and young teenagers.

dukeraoul

Stazza wrote: »

It's to do with their 'Q angle' - best way to combat it is reverse clams; great exercise for prepubescent girls and young teenagers.

Are you suggesting Jeptoo could be a better runner by doing "reverse clams" Stazza?

Stazza

dukeraoul wrote: »

Are you suggesting Jeptoo could be a better runner by doing "reverse clams" Stazza?

No, but you and I might .

When girls hit puberty, their 'Q angle' increases and this impacts on certain muscles in the hip area (don't want to get too technical) and 'weakens' the transfer of power on footstrike. Reverse clams before/during the onset/just after puberty, for girls, can go a long way to alleviate some of the negative effects that the increase in 'Q angle' has.

TFBubendorfer

Reminds of Chrissie Wellington's article that mentions Q angle.

http://www.chrissiewellington.org/blog/raising-the-bar-citius-altius-fortius/

He looked me up and down, and said "I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you will never be a good runner. Your Q angle is too big.” A nice way to urinate on my fire. I still haven’t got a clue what such an angle is, but, regardless, I feel I have since managed to defy his ideas of what was possible for me and my big Q to achieve

However, her running form doesn't look anything like Jeptoo's, but just like her she did alright for herself.

I've seen men running with an outwards twisted knee as well, so it's not exclusively a gender issue, but wider hips sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Stazza

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Reminds of Chrissie Wellington's article that mentions Q angle.

http://www.chrissiewellington.org/blog/raising-the-bar-citius-altius-fortius/



However, her running form doesn't look anything like Jeptoo's, but just like her she did alright for herself.

I've seen men running with an outwards twisted knee as well, so it's not exclusively a gender issue, but wider hips sounds like a reasonable explanation.

Men with outwards twisted knee is different - it's external/internal tibial torsion - both you and I suffer from this: look at pictures of yourself running where your foot is splayed. That's not to say that women can't suffer from tibial torsion issues. But generally their tibial torsion issues are a direct result of an increased 'Q angle'.

EDIT: this is a key contributory factor to why many teenage girls present with stress fractures of the femur. Doing too much interval work/plyometric training/mileage on hard surfaces/incorrect strength training, while the body is developing leads to trouble.

sam30

Stazza wrote: »

It's to do with their 'Q angle' - best way to combat it is reverse clams; great exercise for prepubescent girls and young teenagers.

Reverse clams work on increasing your hip internal rotation strenght and promote internal rotation. isnt it external rotation and abduction control and endurance you want to improve to help eccentrically control the natural pull of gravity of your femur into adduction and internal rotation on foot strike?

Stazza

sam30 wrote: »

Reverse clams work on increasing your hip internal rotation strenght and promote internal rotation. isnt it external rotation and abduction control and endurance you want to improve to help eccentrically control the natural pull of gravity of your femur into adduction and internal rotation on foot strike?

Great post Sam. I'm just back from my run and I'm gonna jump in the shower and have some food and then I'll get back to you.

Before I go - I agree with what you've said. And I don't mean to be condescending but if you think about what you've said and then apply it to a prepubescent girl, where the idea is to try negate the effects of an increased Q angle, you should see that reverse clams are the perfect exercise at this stage of a girl's running life.

Think about how the muscles and tendons will work in an almost ligamentous fashion to negate the power of nature. Reverse clams will hold the Anterior Superior Iliac Crest (ASIS) in place - this goes some way to negate the 3 degree differential between young males and females (14 degrees males/17 degrees females). I think you'd agree that the idea of narrowing the Q angle is a good one. Also think about what a larger Q angle does in terms of external tibial torsion; again, reverse clams work at combatting this.

Also, note I said it wouldn't be a good idea for Jeptoo (sp?) - many reasons for this. But maybe, just maybe, if she'd been banging out reverse clams when she was a little girl, she might have been even faster today. But then again, maybe not;);)

sam30

cheers. you cant alter pelvic development i.e females will have wider pelvis, the part of the q angle you can try to control is the knee position relative to asis. if you encourage strenght training where you keep asis stable and rotate the femur medially as with reverse clam then the knee will be in greater adduction and medial rotation relative to the asis. if u did that exercise the reverse clam in standing your knee wood move further across the body. this will recruit tfl and lenghten and put at an even greater mechanical disadvantage the hip abductors and external rotators. this will cause compression of itb proximally and distally, will load the patellofemoral joint suboptimally and comptrdd lateral hip structures like glut med/min tendon. it also likely plays role in femoracetabular impingment that becomes symptomatic and causes girls to have 4 times as many acl tears

DarByrne1980

My partner suffers from this sort of running form. So what are you guys thinking reverse clam or not? She's not a teenager anymore by the way.

dukeraoul

Ok we're talking about "reverse clams" in pre pubescent females- I'm off this thread before I have to assemble a legal team.... adios bivalves...

DarByrne1980

dukeraoul wrote: »

Ok we're talking about "reverse clams" in pre pubescent females- I'm off this thread before I have to assemble a legal team.... adios bivalves...

Ha ha good one

Stazza

dukeraoul wrote: »

Ok we're talking about "reverse clams" in pre pubescent females- I'm off this thread before I have to assemble a legal team.... adios bivalves...

Yep, that's a good idea. If you don't mind, I think I'll follow ya: I can see where this is heading.;)

sam30

DarByrne1980 wrote: »

My partner suffers from this sort of running form. So what are you guys thinking reverse clam or not? She's not a teenager anymore by the way.

isolated exercises like clams will make minimal difference in isolation. She would benefit from awareness of her running style. She needs to become aware that when she stands, sits walks etc that her knee has a tendency to role inwards. Once she becomes aware of this she can start changing it. For instance when she stands she should bend her knee a tiny bit and practise rolling her knee outwards so it is more in line with the front of her hip. If she puts her hand(or yours!!) on the outside of her hip in around the area where you wood have a back pocket she will feel this muscle tense as she changes her knee position. This will show her she is working her lateral glut muscles. Then you progress with things like standing on one leg doing the same, single leg mini squats trying to replicate your position at foot strike. then progress into walking having the awareness of limiting the inward role of your knee when you strike and push off. Then progress to light running drills. Mirrors are great for feedback. You are retraining the movement patterns in your brain so it takes repitition. You add in isolated strenght work but that is pointless if you dont change movement patterns. Those girls who run loads and give out cause they have muscle definition on the outside of their legs that they dont like and flabby bum muscles compared to their friends who dont run but power walk have good body changes that they want when they change their running technique.