How has the PS4 dominated Europe so soon?

RoyalCelt

Let's look at some facts.

Wii U launched 2 years ago. Xbox one and PS4 10 months ago.


Wii U has sold 7 million, Xbox One 5 million and PS4 11 million.


However in the EU the Wii U has sold 1.7 million, Xbox One 1.2 and PS4 3.8 million.


Worldwide sales for 2014 illustrates the PS4's dominance. Wii U has sold just 1.8m Xbox One 2.3m but ps4 has sold 6.5m.


As you can see sony is dominating worldwide but in the EU the dominance is PS2 levels.


In the EU the PS4 is outselling both it's competitors about 5-1 monthly now and that's incredible when you factor in that the PS3 has also ousold the Wii U and X1 easily this year.


I don't think Sony in their wildest dreams imagined this success and i never though they would. I'm a convert from the 360 to the ps3/ps4 in the last 3 years but what have Sony done to take over the EU?

F1ngers

Going on past form with these threads, I'm locking it now.

F1ngers

I've decided to re-open.
Let's stick to the topic - any fanboyism and it gets locked.

Taltos

Thanks F1ngers as I'm in a bit of a quandary at the moment and this thread might help.

In terms of the dominance personally I put it down to a combination of shrewd marketing factors.
At the end of the day for many parents money talks, and initially the PS4 was leading the X1 in terms of pricing. Especially with just a few differences no major difference between the games.
Added to that some of us may remember some of the initial missteps by microsoft which they quickly peddled back on (correctly so).

Saying that, there are now some amazing offers for the X1, for example Argos that seriously undercuts the PS4.
If people allow their decision to be made by their wallets we could be seeing the beginning of a swing here, not a bad thing, for a competitive market you can't have it dominated by one player, half the fun of this forum would slowly disappear, I am talking about good natured ribbing, nothing more fanatical.
I am keen to see if over the next while Sony will also look at their pricing model.

So really in my mind, this battle isn't over (thankfully), in a years time we might see it have shifted back the other way, unless Sony act fast. However new items like the Playstation TV which while it not forecast to do great things I have a sneaky suspicion may change things. Similarly the VR headset might be good, I am fearful though in it's case it will be the equivalent of an overpriced move - pretty to look at but few games to really take advantage of it (and if it's not wireless that will rule it out of consideration for many gamers).

RedXIV

I think Microsoft's focus on the America plays a part also, when watching the Xbox One announcements and listening to them speak for 20 mins about TV apps that won't work outside America, it makes it feel like Europe was never their primary focus.

I do think Sony learned a lot from the disastrous ps3 launch though. They got the lower price point, they have massively supported the indie movement which I think has lead to some amazing games on the system and with the high adoption of ps+ now, it makes sense to buy a ps4. I've nearly 20 odd games, 2 of which I paid for.

Otacon

Personally, I think PlayStation 4 is in its position of dominance at the moment because their main competition screwed the pooch (at least initially).

The Wii U was released with a confusing message (some people, to this day, think it's a Wii add-on!) and an ill-conceived thrust towards third-party partners. This left them with few first-party titles people actually wanted and old, poor conversions of other consoles games to fill the gaps.

The XBO, on the other hand, was confused long before its release. Its ideas on content delivery and sharing may have been good, but the messaging was dire. Obviously, the aforementioned price point could simply not be justified.

Now, I'm not saying the PS4 is a slouch but how could it not win (again, at least initially) with such competition. As for the question as to why the PS4 and XBO are selling huge numbers in comparison to their predecessors, I simply do not know but I do think so clever marketing, from both companies, has played a big part in it.

cloud493

MS in my eyes, still has a lot of baggage with certain stuff, particularly the DRM, kinect always on stuff, while the PS4... doesn't. Plus the reasonable price point at the start couldn't have hurt either for the PS4.

Retr0gamer

The price point is a big one. Why get a Xbox One which will do practically the same thing as a PS4 for 100 euro extra?

There's really been no excellent marketing or strategy from Sony. Nintendo and MS have messed up big time so all Sony have to do is sit back and not mess up as badly as they do and get praised as being the white knights of the industry. They've even managed to go backwards on a few promises of their own and implemented some very anti consumer measures like the fact that their online service is no longer free but the focus is on their competitors so they can get away with it.

It's pretty much a no brainer at this stage. While I think the WiiU offers far more in terms of games at the moment and is a much better machine if I was investing in a console and considering it's future the PS4 is the one to go for. MS seems to be chasing the dude bro crowd while Sony seem to be really pushing the diversity of gaming experiences on their system, something I feel has a lot more appeal in the long run and will generate more sales.

The PS4 is dominating for two reasons, the first is that Nintendo and Microsoft dropped the ball spectacularly. Their marketing campaigns were atrocious with Microsoft implying that the One was less for gaming than it was for playing media.

The second reason for the PS4 to be doing so well is that while the marketing campaign has been less than great they have gone out of their way to sell the PS4 as a console that's all about the games. Sony are using the PS4 to go after some really interesting indie developers and it's been fantastic for anyone whose interested in something a little different than another string of triple A titles that do little to innovate. The One seems to be a console that is now being sold to gamers who want little but the latest COD and Fifa.

Price at the start and ineptitude of others.
There's still a chance MS could get back into it, already selling a console with 2 games for under €400.

In a way it depends who were the early adopters and who the ones buying this Christmas will be. If all the early adopters are adults then their mates will be sticking what their mates went with. Then again if it's all parents buying this Christmas the lower price point with more games could help the Xbox.

CastorTroy

I do find it kind of funny that Sony are doing better by default and not because they're the best option, even if they are.

I own a Wii U, PS3 and PC so no need to move to a new console yet. But if I do upgrade, PS4 looks the preferred choice for me so far, with the games I've received from Plus and it has the most exclusives I want to play, though currently that number of exclusives is 1 (Infamous).

But going forward, it looks like MS have decided to try and get more exclusives out there and for me it'll always be about the exclusives.

But it looks like a lot of people these days seem really concerned about resolution and FPS, and this seems to always be at the fore of any argument between XBox One and PS4.
Personally, these details don't concern me, as long as the game is playable

weisses

Very spread out release dates time wise

http://news.xbox.com/2014/03/xbox-one-new-markets

Ps4 was most likely available from day one

Gonzo

all im going to say is the game was over for Microsoft during their famous revealing of the Xbox One during E3, they really made a dogs dinner of it. Kinect was another reason, a useless piece of hardware costing an extra 100 euro that nobody wanted. Both these reasons are now fixed but it's nearly 2 years later since that E3 unveiling. The new price point, the removal of Kinect will certainly help things but without any decent 1st party exclusives and the majority of cross-platform titles running with compromised graphics and resolution settings isn't helping things either.

But can I be the first one who will say that Microsoft will regain and win the next gen of consoles in about 8 years time. They will learn a very hard lesson from the XBox One/Kinect.

gerrybbadd

I think a lot of eyes were on Sony during their announcement of the PS4,and who can forget the Cheers for the price point announcement? Also the fact that the XBOne was initially touted as an always online console left a bad taste in people's mouths.

There were many things MS did wrong, and they're not helping matters by removing the Kinect from the overall package. The One was originally marketed adds working only with Kinect - this was to be an integral part of the overall experience. But MS threw Kinect under the bus at the first opportunity.

And all the panic price cuts won't lead to massively increased sales. All it takes is for Sony to cut even €10 from the PS4,and MS will be destroyed all over again.

Plus, the focus on TV integration, resolutiongate, the need to install every game to the hard drive - these are all further nails in the coffin.

Captain Chaos

gerrybbadd wrote: »

, the need to install every game to the hard drive - these are all further nails in the coffin.

You do realise that every single PS4 game installs before it will run. It's the same as the X1.

A thing against the X1 is that it is a brick out of the box until you connect it to get the launch patch so it will work in offline mode.

But forcing Kinect 2 was probably the biggest mistake MS did not back track on until too late. The whole console was pitched and marketed wrong as a media device and Sony came out with the "For the players" tag lines. Sony pitched the console exactly as it was, a console first and foremost and a media device second. MS got that bit arse ways and suffered for it.

beercr8te

MS made an American centric, weaker console with TVTVTV features of no use outside of that market, the DRM, 24 hour checkin and no used games fiasco, Nintendo thought they'd replicate their success with the WII with casuals with last generation based hardware, no proper online the same old tired franchises. Sony managed to get everything largely right with its focus on games, ps plus and powerful hardware, plus they have brand recognition worldwide. I say this as somebody who has bought all 3 of the latest consoles.

cloud493

Yeah, same old tired Nintendo franchises that have still managed to outstrip anything the PS4 has put out so far in its own exclusives :rolleyes:

conorhal

Well as sombody that was never a gamer and the PS4 was my first console purchase I gave some consideration to the choice and came to the market with no pre-existing bias.
The technical spec of the PS4 seemed much better, faster high spec memory etc that implied they weren't doing things on the cheap.
Price was also an issue, but mostly the pre-release negativity about intelectual property measures that made the X Box look like a draconian big brother which wanted to squash the second hand games market and go all iObsessive about controlling users really turned me off. They rowed back on this, but too late.

shruikan2553

Its nice to see some people being able to have a discussion about this.

The Wii U wasn't going to do well compared to the XB1 or PS4. I remember reading about how most Wii owners are the kind of people that have no interest in sequels and buy very few games. They have no interest in the tablet controller they think the Wii U is. If it was made powerful enough so games could be released on Wii U, PS4 and XB1 then it would have a chance.

PS4's success has mostly been due to not being MS. MS tried new things but pushed too far with the always online and DRM. They then went back on this and took away all the good aspects with it. They tried to push kinect, claimed it was needed but then had no problem getting rid of it when it meant they could close the 100 euro gap. MS have no idea what they are doing as all their plans have been disrupted. Sony managed to make PS+ necessary for online without anyone making a whimper.

The PS4 appears to be with a bit more power allowing games to be 1080 vs the common 900 for XB1. Most people can't notice the difference but it is funny watching people act like it is the most important thing about the game while they used to give out about PC gamers commenting that the PC had the best graphics.

XB1 advertises a lot of features, which would be great if they would work in Europe. Often with the 360 I would see something, think it would be cool and then see its US only. They want it to be an entertainment box that plays games while EU gets a games console with netflix.

The XB1 should be able to pull through and close the gap between sales. The PS3 was similar when it launched and managed it.

RoyalCelt

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Its nice to see some people being able to have a discussion about this.

The Wii U wasn't going to do well compared to the XB1 or PS4. I remember reading about how most Wii owners are the kind of people that have no interest in sequels and buy very few games. They have no interest in the tablet controller they think the Wii U is. If it was made powerful enough so games could be released on Wii U, PS4 and XB1 then it would have a chance.

PS4's success has mostly been due to not being MS. MS tried new things but pushed too far with the always online and DRM. They then went back on this and took away all the good aspects with it. They tried to push kinect, claimed it was needed but then had no problem getting rid of it when it meant they could close the 100 euro gap. MS have no idea what they are doing as all their plans have been disrupted. Sony managed to make PS+ necessary for online without anyone making a whimper.

The PS4 appears to be with a bit more power allowing games to be 1080 vs the common 900 for XB1. Most people can't notice the difference but it is funny watching people act like it is the most important thing about the game while they used to give out about PC gamers commenting that the PC had the best graphics.

XB1 advertises a lot of features, which would be great if they would work in Europe. Often with the 360 I would see something, think it would be cool and then see its US only. They want it to be an entertainment box that plays games while EU gets a games console with netflix.

The XB1 should be able to pull through and close the gap between sales. The PS3 was similar when it launched and managed it.

Good post but just want to pick up on a few things. While the difference between PS4 and Xbox One wasn't night and day it was enough for people to question why they should spend 100$ more when the games will look less. That certainly had a bearing on me.

And let's be honest for the price of the thing it shoulf be on par if not more powerful than the PS4. Take for example the new PES game. It's 1080p 60fps on the PS4 but it's 720p 60fps on the Xbox One which is the same as the PS3. That's not good enough and does nothing to help Microsofts console.

The stats on the Wii can be misleading because everyone and their granny bought one but mainly only bought wii fit, wii sports and wii play. The only hardcore game my family got on theirs was mario kart.

Their is a fan of Nintendo on YouTube who points out how so many multiplatform games come to other consoles but not the Wii U. Since it's released there have been something like 155 games and the list grows each week.

Have a look if you want

I think that sums of why the Wii U isn't selling. Their first part games could only take them so far and they need all the popular multiplatform games to compete. The Wii was different as it sold for it's motion controls and family games to the masses. They've now moved onto Ipads etc so the Wii U doesn't have a massive install base that makes publishes want to come on board.

Nintendo are actually putting out a lot of first part titles the problem is they account for over half of the Wii games releasing now. They don't even get Fifa anymore and correct me if I'm wrong but the Wii and the 3DS still does.

One last thing about the PS3 closing the gap and catching the 360 last gen. The 360 released in 2005 but the PS3 didn't come out to Europe until 2007. The fact it easily closed the gap here and overtook by a big margin doesn't bode well for the Xbox One in it's current situation. Some countries it's outselling it 9-1.

The positive thing is gamers will be the winner as microsoft will do everything to win people over. The PS3 would have been useless last gen if the 360 didn't give it and early ass kicking. Competition between big companies is always good. Long may it continue.

richymcdermott

Sony always had near dominance in europe , america on the other hand MS gained most ground with the 360.

There are multiple factors to take in to the numbers we are seeing at the moment.

Microsoft did not release the xbox one to all of europe and some countries saw a delay if I remember correctly was due to the kinetic was not programmed to learn different languages.

Pricing is key and showed to be the key factor.

Nintendo wii u was marketed so poorly I remember when they showcased it e3 they did not even show the console which made me think it was a add on for the wii.

Sony had to do nothing but watch its rivals sink themselves into a deep hole.


I am not even sure microsoft are even going to be able to catch up , if we take what happened last gen into account the 360 was released a year eariler and was cheaper , had better multiplat ports and sony ps3 still sold more.

JD81

There are many reasons as can be seen by the posts on this thread, for me and friends who owned Xbox 360 i think the seeds of the Xbox decline were sown last generation.

Looking on as an Xbox gamer at Online services such as Steam on PC and PS Plus on Playstation it became increasingly frustrating to see the value they offered for gamers, and not just the free games but the amazing sales on digital games.
I remember many a game that would be a few years old costing 3 times the price of a boxed retail version (Fable 2 or halo 3 for example).
On top of this i couldn't get my head around the fact that certain services were behind a paywall; why pay an ISP for internet then pay for Netflix only to have to pay for Xboxlive to access it on my TV (I wasn't much of an online gamer).

We were living in a rapidly changing environment of Digital Media where most online services could be accessed by mobile devices and smart TVs at no additional cost. There were other factors such as battery operated controllers which required you to buy batteries or upgrade to a "Play & Charge Kit" which made it feel like Microsoft were more concerned about making Money than offering value.

Microsoft had a chance to rectify these concerns and move with the market to adapt their model with the XboxOne, but for myself and friends, that E3 conference initially showed they didn't identify these problems or listen to their fans and with the promise the PS4 offered made my decision.

There are many factors to Sonys current success but this for me was the turning point.

ShadowHearth

Well, Ms shot itself in a foot, repeatedly. A lot!

Sony just needed shut the **** up and don't do something stupid.

I think a lot of gamers don't realise how much a price difference had a say in it for average Joe. A 100eu cheaper console that is virtually the same and with same games is always a better deal. I know MS dropped price already, but damage was done.

I really want to play Forza horizon 2 right now, but to put myself back in a place I ask myself: Dude, will you really going to spend 400eu on xbox one to play only one franchise? You have no interest in any of other Ms first part games and you buy all multiplatform games on pc or ps4".
I wish I would not be a bum, so I could afford a machine to play one game .

I Armour I

I think that when it comes to consoles, there are those that did it right/least amount of wrong, those that did well but began to fall off, those that started bad/shakey and began to get better, those that started bad and ended bad and lastly "battle winning models" and "War winning models".

When I think of different "generations" of gaming certain staples come to mind for either ticking all the boxes or landing on the least amount of mines that could blow up in your face.

With the Xbox 360, it came first, had a lot of good variety, exclusives, broke but got offered free repair after free repair, was cheaper etc.
The PS3 did a lot, some simple stuff not so much, but spoiled for choice playing the 60gb model having choice of any old game and any new one.

I think the the PS4/XBO mirrored their competitors predecessors.


Price, social (your mates mates mates mate having one) and covering most of the above along with marketing seems to have put them ahead.


While I owned both last generations and have no fanboyisms to either, I find myself excited to play a PS4 and questioning why I would own a XBO. As an average consumer, gamer and someone who does a fair amount of purchasing decision research there is a lot that others are doing right/ wrong, and a lot that Sony are/aren't. Just so happens that Sony probably aren't doing much "wrong" and perhaps doing "enough right"

RoyalCelt

Have to say I agree with what you all say. I think the common consensus was that Nintendo and Microsoft did a hell of a lot wrong while Sony steered a steady ship.

Don't get me wrong the PS4 is an amazing console but the price and policies had more of a bearing along with the fact theyh had no major cock ups in the year of release.

Last gen the 360 exploded when Gears of War released and blew everyone's mind. That made me buy a console that I stuck with for years. I think Titanfall was meant to be the equivalent this gen but it failed to impress enough to warrant a purchase. Add to that the fact it's sequel will likely be on the PS4.

filmbuffboy

From a purely aesthetic point of view when the average consumer compares the cheaper, sleaker, shinier PS4 to the (more expensive) blocky, VCR-like XBO then it's a no brainer. The average consumer will almost always go for the product that looks nicer. I'm sure that was a major factor for many too.

Taltos

filmbuffboy wrote: »

From a purely aesthetic point of view when the average consumer compares the cheaper, sleaker, shinier PS4 to the (more expensive) blocky, VCR-like XBO then it's a no brainer. The average consumer will almost always go for the product that looks nicer. I'm sure that was a major factor for many too.

Erm - nope not for me.

Kimbot

filmbuffboy wrote: »

From a purely aesthetic point of view when the average consumer compares the cheaper, sleaker, shinier PS4 to the (more expensive) blocky, VCR-like XBO then it's a no brainer. The average consumer will almost always go for the product that looks nicer. I'm sure that was a major factor for many too.

Looks had no bearing on my decision. I had a PS3 and gamed with most my mates on the PS system so it made sense for us to get the PS4.

kunst nugget

filmbuffboy wrote: »

From a purely aesthetic point of view when the average consumer compares the cheaper, sleaker, shinier PS4 to the (more expensive) blocky, VCR-like XBO then it's a no brainer. The average consumer will almost always go for the product that looks nicer. I'm sure that was a major factor for many too.

While the looks help finish off a console, I wouldn't have thought it would be a major factor, which system are your friends on, what exclusives are you interested in and which if any of them is more powerful would be more important factors for a lot of people.

Generic Dreadhead

filmbuffboy wrote: »

From a purely aesthetic point of view when the average consumer compares the cheaper, sleaker, shinier PS4 to the (more expensive) blocky, VCR-like XBO then it's a no brainer. The average consumer will almost always go for the product that looks nicer. I'm sure that was a major factor for many too.

Ah come off it! :pac:

Retr0gamer

If aesthetics were important every PS2 would have been burned in an incinerator at launch.

Varik

No one knew what the PS4 looked like for ages, and it could be argued that it was ahead in PR at that point.

Retr0gamer

Fine looking console though especially after the rather ugly PS3. The grill at the back is a bit ugly but you can keep that hidden.

Varik

The ONE may have pass the PS4 for the first week in 8 months for Fifa's release in the UK plus another price drop (limited), or it may not considering I can't find numbers and new sites are only linking to each other in a big old circle and I don't think they understand what "week over week" means in terms of percentage increase in sales.

Fifa sold more on PS4 as was to be expected with the difference in numbers and mainland Europe.

Taltos

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Fine looking console though especially after the rather ugly PS3. The grill at the back is a bit ugly but you can keep that hidden.

I can't to keep it cool I have that part facing outwards. Damn ikea cabinets - but on the plus side silent as a mouse.

Varik

Taltos wrote: »

I can't to keep it cool I have that part facing outwards. Damn ikea cabinets - but on the plus side silent as a mouse.

I've mine on top of a low filing cabinet beside my desk with the vents facing me, the thing is rather quite but puts out a lot of heat; I don't need the heat on when I'm playing it .

Retr0gamer

Varik wrote: »

The ONE may have pass the PS4 for the first week in 8 months for Fifa's release in the UK plus another price drop (limited), or it may not considering I can't find numbers and new sites are only linking to each other in a big old circle and I don't think they understand what "week over week" means in terms of percentage increase in sales.

Fifa sold more on PS4 as was to be expected with the difference in numbers and mainland Europe.

You'll only get concrete figures from NDP who only release them quarterly I think. More than likely its a press release from Microsoft skewing the figures like you say.

RoyalCelt

Retr0gamer wrote: »

You'll only get concrete figures from NDP who only release them quarterly I think. More than likely its a press release from Microsoft skewing the figures like you say.

that's not true. in japan media create give concrete figures and in most EU countries we have chart track. I'm going to reply to that gentlemans question bout the sales so feel free to read it.

RoyalCelt

Varik wrote: »

The ONE may have pass the PS4 for the first week in 8 months for Fifa's release in the UK plus another price drop (limited), or it may not considering I can't find numbers and new sites are only linking to each other in a big old circle and I don't think they understand what "week over week" means in terms of percentage increase in sales.

Fifa sold more on PS4 as was to be expected with the difference in numbers and mainland Europe.

chart track jfk track the sales accurately. the xbox one for the week of the fifa bundle outsold the PS4 by a small margin.

I'll get the numbers for the 3 weeks around it.

week ending 6th september: (average yearly week)
X1 = 6k
PS4 = 9k

week ending 13th september: (Destiny week)
X1 = 16k
PS4 = 35k

week ending 20th september:
X1 = 8k
PS4 = 12k

week ending 27th september: (Fifa week)
X1 = 22k (a few hundred more than PS4 confirmed)
PS4 = 22k

Don't have numbers for the next week after FIFA but chart track announced that PS4 gone back ahead by a few thousand.

This next link isn't very reliable as it's VGchartz but they will give you an idea of the sales for the EU.

http://www.vgchartz.com/weekly/41910/Europe/

RoyalCelt

Just want to post a follow up. The only place in Europe where the two consoles compete closely is the UK. Sony recently said they've 80% marketshare in many countries and the figures coming from places like Spain, Germany and Italy certainly back this up.

.G.

Sony need a big thank you to Argos, the brilliant deals they've been putting out has made the PS4 irresistible to a lot of folk over here. I wouldn't even have one yet if it wasn't for their great deals.

Lemlin

Is Xbox One winning the battle for younger gamers though? We have a PS4 but all my son's school friends have Xbox Ones and from speaking to friends and work colleagues, that appears to be the trend in most schools.

corcaigh07

Judging by the amount of games on display in Cex and Gamestop, XB1 isn't far off 50/50 popularity. Phil Spencer has done an amazing job so far and hopefully it continues at E3.

That_Guy

Price was a big factor in determining which console I would buy. I have a PS3 and Xbox 360 and found myself playing more with the PS3 towards the end of last gen.

I have no preference towards either console but I felt that MS really let themselves down before launch.

Almost like they got a bit too cocky and assumed that people would still buy regardless.

That and they priced themselves out of the market initially. They've brought down the price significantly but I still don't feel the need to rush out and buy one.

Sony certainly learned a lot from their mistakes and you have to applaud them for it. They're not perfect by any means but I like the direction they're going in with indie games and the like.

I do believe that Microsoft will come back strong and will learn from a disastrous launch. I really hope they do because competition is always great.

I think PS+ is a big seller for Sony. The best bargain in gaming bar none. I'm not sure if MS still do the 'Games With Gold' thing but I think Sony are killing them in this area myself.

I'm happy with my PS4. Really happy with it. My preference would actually be a Wii U as a second console this gen.

I think it would take a handful of incredible exclusives for me to bite the bullet for an XB1 but at the moment, I'm happy with my choice but competition is always a good thing and I think MS are slowly coming around especially with their price drops.