Waterless carwash

Slimbo

Hi all,
Just reading through this post I found while looking up car products.
It was posted a couple of years ago, and before the mention of water charges.
Does everyone still think the NoH20 or the like are still poor products given the water charges now coming in to effect?
The post was about 50/50 for both sides.
Just wondering what the thoughts are now!
Liam

TomMc

If the metered rates are starting out at EUR2.44 per 1000 Litres for water or EUR4.88 for water and wastewater, a normal car wash is still only costing less than a Euro (for water) if performed sensibly with a hose. Go mad with a power washer and then it could run into a few Euro.

If you really want to reduce water consumption (for monetary or environmental reasons) but care about your vehicle's appearance, a rinseless wash is a better all round option than a waterless wash.

Ded_Zebra

TomMc wrote: »

If the metered rates are starting out at EUR2.44 per 1000 Litres for water or EUR4.88 for water and wastewater, a normal car wash is still only costing less than a Euro (for water) if performed sensibly with a hose. Go mad with a power washer and then it could run into a few Euro.

If you really want to reduce water consumption (for monetary or environmental reasons) but care about your vehicle's appearance, a rinseless wash is a better all round option than a waterless wash.

Actually pressure washers use significantly less water than a hose. Though the water fows very fast the actual flow rate is very small. They user 1/2 the water or less

When the water charges come in a pressure washer might eventually pay for itself well if it didn't use any electricity! It also allows you to wash your car in a safer way because it's possible to remove more dirt before actually touching the car in the wash process and potentially causing swirls.

stimpson

Double water butt (first one to allow any crap to settle) with a hoselock connector tap and you're sorted.

I wouldn't use any of those waterless products. You need water for lubrication.

TomMc

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

Actually pressure washers use significantly less water than a hose. Though the water fows very fast the actual flow rate is very small. They user 1/2 the water or less

Yes indeed but I did say "if performed sensibly with a hose" ... in other words using a spray nozzle which you can turn off easily and not just leave the hose running throughout.

"Going mad with a pressure washer" ... well think of those who go through maybe up to six rinse cycles with a pressure washer detailing a car. Add up all that water consumption. Snow foam pre-wash (rinse), shampoo wash (rinse), tar remover (rinse), fallout remover (rinse), clay treatment (wash & rinse afterwards, before polishing), possible apc (wash & rinse, after polishing/before application of LSP.

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

When the water charges come in a pressure washer might eventually pay for itself well if it didn't use any electricity! It also allows you to wash your car in a safer way because it's possible to remove more dirt before actually touching the car in the wash process and potentially causing swirls.

If using snow foam and a lance yes and not just blasting the dirt and grit off with a pressure washer and water alone. Then a gentle shampoo wash afterwards with the proper wash media and techniques. But that involves two rinse cycles and so more water consumption.

stimpson

I just looked at the specs on my Nilfisk C120. It's 5.2 -7.3 litres per minute. Taking 6 as the average, that's nearly 3 hours constant use to go through 1000 litres. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

MetzgerMeister

Snow foam pre-wash (rinse),

shampoo wash (rinse),

tar remover (rinse),

fallout remover (rinse),

clay treatment (wash & rinse afterwards, before polishing),

possible apc (wash & rinse, after polishing/before application of LSP.

If it's a matter of trying to save water on these then I would propose the following:

Use the likes of Meguiars Hyperwash which is a snowfoam and shampoo in one. cover the car as normal and use your microfibre immediately. Wash from the top down obviously and then rinse.

Don't rinse after tar remover. Instead, apply your tar remover only to the affected spots and wipe off. Follow this with fallout remover and rinse.

I know this is about saving money but if you didn't want to rinse again and didn't want to use an APC (after which you will have to rinse), use Isopropyl Alcohol instead. This will prep the surface for LSP application better than APC and there's no rinsing and drying afterwards.

Ded_Zebra

IPA is very expensive compared to a bit of water and APC though :P

Basically the cost of water is very very low compared to all the other products that you'll use so if you are looking to save money look at spending less on them first. Or get the bus instead and sell the car, you'll save a fortune

MetzgerMeister

Ded_Zebra wrote: »

IPA is very expensive compared to a bit of water and APC though :P

Yes, hence why I said "I know this is about saving money but...."


Dipsh!t :P

sk8board

Waterless wash question...


So today I was washing and waxing a brand new car ( this one, so the paint will need protecting http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96092393&postcount=5679 )

A fella from one of the waterless wash companies pulls up to clean a neighbours car and comes over to admire. Fair enough. Then he admonishes me for using a power washer on the paint and that I'd ruin it.

my standard wash is:
Power wash - a weakish karcher washer
Snow foam
Two-bucket wash
Liquid wash as a drying aid
Microfibre mitts and cloths all the way.


He offers to do a wash for free for me. So I tell him I'd come watch him do the neighbours car.

I couldn't believe it. He sprayed on this cleaner and then rubbed the dirt off with a Microfibre, turning it now and again fair enough - but surely dragging dirt across the car? The cloths were clean starting but ended up brown!

So I politely decline and get back to my wash.

So ... am I losing the plot or is waterless cleaning something anyone who cares about their paint should surely avoid?

Surely the laws of physics apply and you're dragging dirt across the car? He wiped whole panels top to bottom before turning the cloth.

It's the same procedure as I use for my liquid wax drying stage - about 45mins into washing the car!

Curran

Your logic is perfectly justified!!

They waterless companies will argue until the cows come up that its totally safe.
You need a certain amount of water to wash the car safely. To remove a hose from the routine, at the very minimum you'd need two buckets of water.
The waterless technique would suit a car being washed that way, very regularly, if the car were in a dry climate, so at worst, you'd only have light dust on the car...our roads and climate do no suit this method.


You were right to walk away and stick to your methods; and there is no risk using a power washer, provided you dont go too close to the paintwork,

PS: Smashing car, not a bit jealous....that a Porsche too??

vectra

sk8board wrote: »

my standard wash is:
Power wash - a weakish karcher washer
Snow foam
Two-bucket wash
Liquid wash as a drying aid
Microfibre mitts and cloths all the way.

!

One thing I would say is Snow Foam first.
Then wash with pressure washer.

sk8board

Curran wrote: »

You were right to walk away and stick to your methods; and there is no risk using a power washer, provided you dont go too close to the paintwork,

PS: Smashing car, not a bit jealous....that a Porsche too??

yeh, its a friends 911 carrera S, who lent it for the fortnight between selling my last car and getting this one. We're a one-car family so it was an interesting trial!

vectra wrote: »

One thing I would say is Snow Foam first.
Then wash with pressure washer.

yeh, I power wash at the start to shift any heavy dirt and again after the snow foam to wash it off, just didn't list it above.
The washer is a basic enough karcher, aimed at car washing. It wouldn't skin you that's for sure

Curran

sk8board wrote: »

yeh, I power wash at the start to shift any heavy dirt and again after the snow foam to wash it off, just didn't list it above.

I would snowfoam the car dry - wouldnt rinse the heavy dirt off first. The job of the snowfoam is to soften the dirt, and suspend it when rinsing.

My routine is usually; snowfoam, while it dwells, give the wheels a blast of the hose to remove the heavy dirt, apply wheel cleaner, whole car and wheels a rinse down, wash, dry.

sk8board wrote: »

The washer is a basic enough karcher, aimed at car washing. It wouldn't skin you that's for sure

I know what you mean but you'd be surprised how powerful the initial 0"-4" is...from there out the power dissipates due to the fan of the spray and turns to a mist almost.

vectra

sk8board wrote: »

yeh, I power wash at the start to shift any heavy dirt and again after the snow foam to wash it off, just didn't list it above.
The washer is a basic enough karcher, aimed at car washing. It wouldn't skin you that's for sure

Curran wrote: »

I would snowfoam the car dry - wouldnt rinse the heavy dirt off first. The job of the snowfoam is to soften the dirt, and suspend it when rinsing.

As Curran said above.
The foam would cling better to a dry surface.

sk8board

that's definitely interesting, will try it next time for sure. I'd been following Ammo, Chemical guys and all those other detailers over the years and they all seem to do an initial power wash of the car first and foremost.

vectra

sk8board wrote: »

that's definitely interesting, will try it next time for sure. I'd been following Ammo, Chemical guys and all those other detailers over the years and they all seem to do an initial power wash of the car first and foremost.

I don;t know about Ammo but CG are American based as far as I am aware.
They do not get the sort of dirt we get on our cars over there so a rinse would probably make them spotless without ever touching them.

Curran

Id rather to a snowfoam, rinse, snowfoam rinse.

Water at pressure, directed at heavy dirt on the paintwork - dirt movement has potential to do damage.
Granted its microscopic damage but repeated damage will, over time, dull the apperance....agree that it wont be by much, but everything you do, should be with the aim of limiting potential damage.

Touchless tasks are obviously best, followed by limiting potential damage.

I suppose its where you draw the line - some people wash with 3 buckets to be even more sure they arent inflicting damage, other will dry the car with a pat technique, etc. Whatever works for you!