BMW 1 series v Audi A3

Safehands

My daughter wants to buy a second hand car. She has about 7k to spend and wants either a BMW 1 or an Audi A3. She wants a diesel. Any advise or opinions please.

AMKC

Does she really need to have a diesel car? Will she be doing a lot of miles or will the car just be for short journeys. If its just for short journeys then she is better in a petrol car. Personally I prefer petrol myself they are cheaper to maintain and run. Diesel cars especially if they have a turbo or a DPF filter are not great for using on short journeys. I am no expert but have heard of all sorts of problems that the DPF can cause if the car is not used on long journeys regularly.
They are both nice cars not sure what 7k will get do. Why not think of something like a Ford Focus or Toyota Auris or an Opel Astra. They should be much cheaper to run and maintain maybe better equipped and she might get a newer model maybe an 08 or 09 compared to maybe on o6 or 07 for the other cars

Safehands

AMKC wrote: »

Does she really need to have a diesel car? Will she be doing a lot of miles or will the car just be for short journeys. If its just for short journeys then she is better in a petrol car. Personally I prefer petrol myself they are cheaper to maintain and run. Diesel cars especially if they have a turbo or a DPF filter are not great for using on short journeys. I am no expert but have heard of all sorts of problems that the DPF can cause if the car is not used on long journeys regularly.
They are both nice cars not sure what 7k will get do. Why not think of something like a Ford Focus or Toyota Auris or an Opel Astra. They should be much cheaper to run and maintain maybe better equipped and she might get a newer model maybe an 08 or 09 compared to maybe on o6 or 07 for the other cars

Yes, she is doing about 70 miles per day on the motorway, that is why she wants a diesel. I agree about the Toyotas etc, but try telling her that!

AMKC

Well at least she ain,t looking for a Mini lol. They are everywhere so hardly anything special about owning one of them. Do some research online and try and find some alternatives too. Then go try out a few cars and let her decide. It is going to be her car so as long as she knows that cars like the 1series and the A3 are going to be expensive to service and so on at least you can say you tried.

bazz26

Both cars are not great value for money imo. You are paying a lot for the premium badge and get very little in return over what other brands offer in terms of performance, practicality and features. For €7k and diesel in both the A3 or 1 Series you will be looking at a fairly well driven example of both.

fmcg_scribe

To be fair, she's going to have to buy a diesel because she's doing 70 miles a day.

The case for both a 1 series diesel and an A3 diesel is that they should have strong residuals when it comes to moving the car on.

It sounds as though she wants a premium brand car and nothing else will do. However, if she's leaning more towards the A3, it might be a good to take a look at other similar cars from VW, such as a Golf, Scirocco, and Skoda Fabia. All those cars share a lot of parts.

bazz26

Not arguing against buying a diesel, my point is that with these premium brand small cars, you pay more for less. Imo for €7k there is a lot better value out there than a 1 Series or A3.

fmcg_scribe

bazz26 wrote: »

Not arguing against buying a diesel, my point is that with these premium brand small cars, you pay more for less. Imo for €7k there is a lot better value out there than a 1 Series or A3.

Agree with you up to a point. As someone who has owned six BMWs, I hate seeing a poverty spec BMW, especially a 1 series with a poverty spec.

While there other cars out there that might be better value and cheaper to run than the 1 series and the A3, the depreciation on those cars might be a lot higher. Remember that depreciation is still be the biggest single cost for most cars.

bazz26

We are talking about a €7k car here though so I cannot see the OP loosing their shirt on most main stream alternatives out there.

fmcg_scribe

bazz26 wrote: »

We are talking about a €7k car here though so I cannot see the OP loosing their shirt on most main stream alternatives out there.

You say that but there big differences between many "mainstream" brands when you start looking at residuals, reliability, and running costs. Perhaps not in Ireland (yet) but the car market in Europe generally is dividing into luxury/premium versus "budget". Most of the brands you're probably thinking of do not fit into either of those camps. This stuff matters when you want to move a car on. Most of the volume European car makers are struggling.

Small premium cars tend to hold their value well.

As I said in earlier reply in this discussion, OP's daughter should probably add some other cars to her shortlist, for example, VW Golf.

Safehands

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

You say that but there big differences between many "mainstream" brands when you start looking at residuals, reliability, and running costs. Perhaps not in Ireland (yet) but the car market in Europe generally is dividing into luxury/premium versus "budget". Most of the brands you're probably thinking of do not fit into either of those camps. This stuff matters when you want to move a car on. Most of the volume European car makers are struggling.
Small premium cars tend to hold their value well.
As I said in earlier reply in this discussion, OP's daughter should probably add some other cars to her shortlist, for example, VW Golf.

Hmmm, I don't disagree. If I saw a nice Golf she would look at it. I don't fully trust Golf's though. I just think they can be a bit finicky and very expensive if things go wrong. I know Audi or BMW are probably the same sort of pricey cars if things go wrong. But I think the Audi is a bit sturdier. I don't really trust BM's at all. She loves them. Should I have more faith in the Golf do you think?

MadYaker

You wouldn't trust any BMW ever? Not much point disregarding an entire brand for no real reason to be honest. For €7k you're going to be looking at on older, lower spec A3 or 1 series. If your daughter was prepared to consider other brands should could get a better spec'd, newer car for similar money.

fmcg_scribe

OSI wrote: »

The A3 is 90% Golf under the skin.

Indeed. Most Audi owners probably don't like to be reminded of the shared parts issue.

Safehands

MadYaker wrote: »

You wouldn't trust any BMW ever? Not much point disregarding an entire brand for no real reason to be honest. For €7k you're going to be looking at on older, lower spec A3 or 1 series. If your daughter was prepared to consider other brands should could get a better spec'd, newer car for similar money.

I know! I can never really understand women. Looks and a badge are so important. I'd love a Toyota.

Safehands

OSI wrote: »

The A3 is 90% Golf under the skin.

I did not know that, but I probably should have!

bigroad

What about a mercedes b class 180cdi.
You should pick up an 2006 for about 6k.

fmcg_scribe

bigroad wrote: »

What about a mercedes b class 180cdi.
You should pick up an 2006 for about 6k.

Interesting suggestion. At least you didn't suggest an A class although current A class looks to be a better can than all of its predecessors.

I imagine that OP's daughter would knock back a B class because it looks too similar to a people carrier and does not look like the sort of car that a young person might drive.

Idbatterim

surely the 1.6 petrol in either a mini or bm with 1.6, if its 6 speed, couldnt be that bad on juice, even if doing 70 miles per day? you would pick up a 2007 1.6 petrol for 7k comfortably, just checked out carzone...

fmcg_scribe

Safehands wrote: »

I know! I can never really understand women. Looks and a badge are so important. I'd love a Toyota.

If you're into cars (and driving), choice of car can be a very personal thing. Many people don't care about the make or model of the car that they drive and that's OK.

fmcg_scribe

Idbatterim wrote: »

surely the 1.6 petrol in either a mini or bm with 1.6, if its 6 speed, couldnt be that bad on juice, even if doing 70 miles per day?

Up to now at least, BMW has kept engines for 1 series separate from those used for BMW Mini.

Essentially, the 1 series has shared engines with the 3 series and thus other models in the BMW range.

In contrast, for the 1st and 2nd generation BMW Mini, BMW partnered with Peugeot/Citroen to develop an engine that could be used by both car makers.

First generation BMW Mini had a supercharged engine. Second generation BMW Mini had a turbo charged engine.

The third generation BMW Mini has been launched and I reckon that now that BMW is going to move the 1 series to FWD only, the engines as well as the chassis will be shared with the BMW Mini.

It's all about economies of scale.

TBi

Running/repair costs and initial upfront cost of a Diesel can easily cost more than any savings made in fuel economy over a petrol. Personally i'd prefer a petrol.

My sister just paid 1,400 getting a reconditioned turbo for her diesel A3, a colleague at work paid 1,500 for a new chain for his 2.0L diesel BMW, another colleague had his chain replaced under warranty on same engine.

Although i know someone who had a big bill with a petrol 1.4TSI A3 as well it was less than a third of the diesels.

fmcg_scribe

TBi wrote: »

Running/repair costs and initial upfront cost of a Diesel can easily cost more than any savings made in fuel economy over a petrol. Personally i'd prefer a petrol.

My sister just paid 1,400 getting a reconditioned turbo for her diesel A3, a colleague at work paid 1,500 for a new chain for his 2.0L diesel BMW, another colleague had his chain replaced under warranty on same engine.

Although i know someone who had a big bill with a petrol 1.4TSI A3 as well it was less than a third of the diesels.

Agree that diesel is not always the best option. A lot hinges on the number of years that you own the car and average annual mileage.

OP's daughter is driving 70 miles per day, so she has to at least consider buying a diesel.

Some interesting links about petrol v diesel:
http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driver-tools/petrol-vs-diesel/petrol-and-diesel-fuel-costs/
http://www.whatcar.com/car-news/petrol-diesel-work-costs-less/1198033
http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/petrol-more-cost-efficient-than-diesel-when-buying-used-car
http://www.moneysupermarket.com/car-insurance/petrol-vs-diesel/

Tea 1000

Volvo C30 might be worth a look if she likes the Volvo badge. The A3 is poor value.

Safehands

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Volvo C30 might be worth a look if she likes the Volvo badge. The A3 is poor value.

Why is the A3 poor value? She won't go for a Volvo

Safehands

fmcg_scribe wrote: »

If you're into cars (and driving), choice of car can be a very personal thing.

So is how much money you earn!
There's nothing as sad as looking at a Ferrari in a traffic jam - useless waste of a nice car!

bazz26

Because you are paying more money for something that really isn't much better than lesser badged cars. The A3 is basically a Golf in a fancier dress, but does the A3 really do anything better than the Golf? Nope other than carry the more premium Audi badge which you will pay more for.

Safehands

bazz26 wrote: »

Because you are paying more money for something that really isn't much better than lesser badged cars. The A3 is basically a Golf in a fancier dress, but does the A3 really do anything better than the Golf? Nope not really.

Does an A6 do anything better than a Superb?

Tea 1000

Safehands wrote: »

Does an A6 do anything better than a Superb?

Yes, the new A6 is a completely different car. Aluminium chassis and panels, dynamically much better to the Superb.
But the Golf and A3 are almost identical. For €7k you'll be getting a higher mileage (hence less reliable) and older A3 with less extras and probably a lesser engine than a 7k Golf.

bazz26

A6 and Superb do not share half the same DNA as an A3 and Golf do. But I wouldn't be buying an A6 anyway or at least not a fwd one.

Listen if you want to spend more on less then fine but you did ask here for opinions.

Safehands

Tea 1000 wrote: »

Yes, the new A6 is a completely different car. Aluminium chassis and panels, dynamically much better to the Superb.
But the Golf and A3 are almost identical.

Ah yes, but does €60,000 A6 do anything better than a €30,000 Superb? Quieter? maybe a little, More room? no! More reliable? No! More comfortable? Subjective!
Better Badge? oh yea! but €30,000 better? No!

Tea 1000

Safehands wrote: »

Ah yes, but does €60,000 A6 do anything better than a €30,000 Superb? Quieter? maybe a little, More room? no! More reliable? No! More comfortable? Subjective!
Better Badge? oh yea! but €30,000 better? No!

There's always a badge premium no doubt, that's how the big boys make their money. There is a lot more R&D gone into the A6 than the Superb, and you could argue that a 2 litre diesel with the 170bhp in the Superb versus the entry A6 with the 180-ish newer version of the same engine only has around a 10 grand price difference. At 60k your A6 is a 3 litre V6 quattro with a few toys in the mix.
I'd spend 10k more on an entry 180-odd bhp A6 over a 170-odd Superb quicker than I'd spend 6k on a 140bhp A3 over a 140bhp Golf.

H3llR4iser

Safehands wrote: »

My daughter wants to buy a second hand car. She has about 7k to spend and wants either a BMW 1 or an Audi A3. She wants a diesel. Any advise or opinions please.

If she wants one of these two cars because she likes them, any other consideration about depreciation, value for money, there being better choices and so on are totally irrelevant.

I know they would be for me.

She won't be happy with anything else, therefore nothing else will do. If the choice of a car was an exclusively rational process, the Lada Niva would be the only car mankind ever needed.

First of all, as some already specified, she needs to know that these cars carry the same ownership costs as a premium saloon. From tires to service to spares, they will cost as much as a 3-Series or an A4.

Another consideration: how old is she and how many years NCB does she have? If she's like 20, or has little/no NCB, it may be hard or extremely expensive to insure these cars, since insurers tend to consider them somewhat higher risk than, say, a bog standard Focus.

Last, and here I slightly echo some other opinions, it might be hard to find a good diesel specimen for either of them for 7k.

TBi

Comparing A3 to Golf. If you sat in one and drove one for a while you'd notice the difference, the A3 is a much nicer place to be. Also a Golf is a nicer place to sit than an Octavia. They are similar but everything internally is better quality and has a better finish. Whether that appeals to you or not is a different question.

Tea 1000

TBi wrote: »

Comparing A3 to Golf. If you sat in one and drove one for a while you'd notice the difference, the A3 is a much nicer place to be. Also a Golf is a nicer place to sit than an Octavia. They are similar but everything internally is better quality and has a better finish. Whether that appeals to you or not is a different question.

There's no doubting that alright, the A3 is nicer, and the 3dr is nicer outside too. The Mk 5 Golf was particularly weak inside.
My main point though is the diesel A3 you'd pick up for 7k might well be fairly tired and worn out inside and outside, negating the niceness of it!