Law Conversion DIT, King[']s Inns], Law Society diploma, etc.

groggles11

Hi, I have a bachelor of education degree and a few years experience in teaching. I am currently looking at studying to become a solicitor. I've been doing some research and have found a few options but am not 100% sure what the best choice is. Wondering if anyone could tell me the best way in achieving this? The law conversion at DIT or Law Society diploma seem to be decent options but Im wondering if I should try for something in the Kings Inn as I would imagine that law and jobs involved in law are perhaps elitist? I would like to begin study in the field next September to give myself the time to make arrangements. I have the option to take a career break from my current post so I am willing to do what is necessary to give myself the best shot at becoming a solicitor. Thanks in advance!

conorh91

Do an FE-1 preparatory course if you want to become a solicitor, do the King's Inns Diploma if you want to become a barrister.

My personal opinion is that programmes not specifically geared at the two professional institutions are revenue generating exercises, of no practical value to people with a genuine future in the legal professions.

The DIT "conversion" program (whatever "conversion" means) seems to fall into the waste-of-time category.

The same can be said of the King's Inns Diploma in Legal Studies for students who do not want to go on and take the BL degree. It's a waste of time and money.

If you're sure you want to be a solicitor, get the manuals now and start some self-directed learning, then do a prep course (Independent Colleges, City) and then pass the FE1s. That's the first part.

groggles11

Thanks for the quick repsone. Will look into the route as suggested. I will try for my FE 1s and see about getting work in a firm scrubbing the floor if needs be! Will firms offering training contracts not run a mile from someone without a degree linked to law? Id only have a 2:1 B Ed and FE1s, or is it not really an issue? Work experience and contacts made are probably worth more?

Bepolite

If you do a search here (and perhaps look in the FAQ sticky) you'll find a recent thread on the legal profession.

I disagree with conorh91 somewhat in relation to the KI diploma. From all accounts it's an excellent grounding in law and will enable you to to take both routes. At present you require no further qualifications to become a solicitor; you simply need to pass the FE-1s. If you feel you need anything over and above a prep course the KI Dip. course would be my recommendation. That said I do agree that simply sitting down with a manual and ploughing through it or perhaps doing a prep course is probably enough, only you can judge that really.

The legal profession is not elitist, especially the bar. The solicitor route will be more competitive to 'get in the door' as you're working for someone. The barrister route leads, in almost all cases from what I can gather, to underemployment.

OP I sincerely hope you are prepared to endure a standard of living well below that of someone on the dole for the next few years. I'm not trying to put you off, many people including myself are willing to put up with that, just make sure you're 100% sure it's what you want. One last thing to be said for the bar is it can be done part-time while you continue your day job.

groggles11

Bepolite wrote: »

If you do a search here (and perhaps look in the FAQ sticky) you'll find a recent thread on the legal profession.

I disagree with conorh91 somewhat in relation to the KI diploma. From all accounts it's an excellent grounding in law and will enable you to to take both routes. At present you require no further qualifications to become a solicitor; you simply need to pass the FE-1s. If you feel you need anything over and above a prep course the KI Dip. course would be my recommendation. That said I do agree that simply sitting down with a manual and ploughing through it or perhaps doing a prep course is probably enough, only you can judge that really.

The legal profession is not elitist, especially the bar. The solicitor route will be more competitive to 'get in the door' as you're working for someone. The barrister route leads, in almost all cases from what I can gather, to underemployment.

OP I sincerely hope you are prepared to endure a standard of living well below that of someone on the dole for the next few years. I'm not trying to put you off, many people including myself are willing to put up with that, just make sure you're 100% sure it's what you want. One last thing to be said for the bar is it can be done part-time while you continue your day job.

Ok so it is a given that Im wasting my time enrolling in any courses. I should buy books and try for FE 1s and seek employment and a possible training contract? The bar and becoming a barrister seems like an extremely tough route financially speaking however I could work in my current job and do so.

Pat Mustard

The DIT Postgrad Diploma is aimed at non-law graduates who want to study law. The aim is to give an education in law rather than to prepare for FE-1s exclusively.

If the priority is to pass the FE-1s rather than to get an education in law first, then the FE-1 prep courses are more geared toward that outcome.

Whatever about FE-1s, I think that if somebody intends practising as a lawyer, it's valuable to have a formal education in law.

groggles11

The Mustard wrote: »

The DIT Postgrad Diploma is aimed at non-law graduates who want to study law. The aim is to give an education in law rather than to prepare for FE-1s exclusively.

If the priority is to pass the FE-1s rather than to get an education in law first, then the FE-1 prep courses are more geared toward that outcome.

Whatever about FE-1s, I think that if somebody intends practising as a lawyer, it's valuable to have a formal education in law.

Interesting. That makes sense to me and was what I initially had felt.

Bepolite

Although things are picking up now you need to research what the route to becoming a solicitor is like. One thing a formal course will do is allow you to build up contacts and perhaps intern at a firm or two.

The solicitor route in many cases is as tough as the barrister route. You will likely be paid minimum wage and be expected to pay your own Blackhall fees. Some will employ you on better terms than this, others worse, few without a full set of FE-1s. It's not the route I'm going down so don't take my word for it, but do check it out.

I'm not trying to steer you in a particular direction or put you off just make sure you go into this fully informed.

groggles11

Bepolite wrote: »

Although things are picking up now you need to research what the route to becoming a solicitor is like. One thing a formal course will do is allow you to build up contacts and perhaps intern at a firm or two.

The solicitor route in many cases is as tough as the barrister route. You will likely be paid minimum wage and be expected to pay your own Blackhall fees. Some will employ you on better terms than this, others worse, few without a full set of FE-1s. It's not the route I'm going down so don't take my word for it, but do check it out.

I'm not trying to steer you in a particular direction or put you off just make sure you go into this fully informed.

What formal course do you think would be best then? Many thanks Im fully prepared financially for training contract wages etc. I just want to give myself the best chance

NoQuarter

groggles11 wrote: »

What formal course do you think would be best then? Many thanks Im fully prepared financially for training contract wages etc. I just want to give myself the best chance

Don't waste your time and money doing a formal law course. Once you get into a firm you will realise that, as with a lot of jobs, the academic side is not so important. If you pass the fe1s, you have enough of a legal grounding and understanding to be a Solicitor. So says the Law Society. You need to start this road properly, it's an exercise in managing resources.

Here's my advice:

Get the fe1 manuals, you can buy last years ones for 30/40 quid per manual. Learn them cover to cover. Start doing this now.

Take a prep course for any topics you can't get your head around. Maybe even take one to see if you find it beneficial and then consider the others. But again, resources management. You will need all the cash you spend on these to pay for PPC potentially. Is it possible for a non law grad to pass by learning the manual alone? Yes, absolutely. What I'd do is, if I was struggling, pay someone on here for a grind for an hour to explain the principles. The rest of the manuals is wrote learning.

Get a few internships. This is essential. You likely wont be paid but you'll need them on your CV.

Find a niche area. Passing the fe1s means you are just one more lemming with fe1s. Find a space, carve out some kind of academic expertise in that area through a year long diploma (while doing fe1s which may take 1-2 years alone). Then market yourself to firms with that niche. You would be wise to find something outside the fe1 topics as everyone has them, ie aircraft leasing/commercial contracts. The law society has diplomas in these.

Do all that and you have a shot. Just make sure you take a step back and think out every move. Starting something unnecessary is a long and expensive road. YEs it would help to have a law degree, but it's 3 years and thousands of euro. Allocate resources elsewhere as I mention above.

Bepolite

groggles11 wrote: »

What formal course do you think would be best then? Many thanks Im fully prepared financially for training contract wages etc. I just want to give myself the best chance

I can't give better advice than what's been given above by NoQuarter; I can never work out whether he's a barrister or solicitor. I have been following his advice re manuals for a couple of years now while doing my degree.

My suggestion, if you want to do a formal course, is the KI diploma. From my glance at the DIT course it's not an approved degree for the barrister route and as you're already able to sit the FE-1s why not keep your options open by sitting a course that leave KI on the table?

That said, I still think a formal course is unnecessary if you can get through the FE-1s without one. There are of course a plethora of other consideration only you know: what is the funding situation; do you study on your own well; will you be able to secure internships without a formal legal education of some description.

Bear in mind: Minimum Wage - Blackhall fees = negative income for two years.

NoQuarter

Bepolite wrote: »

why not keep your options open by sitting a course that leave KI on the table?

Because CV reviewers will think you don't know what you are doing. They want a keeper, not someone who has one eye on the Bar. (The legal bar that is). It makes complete sense in the way you mention, but to get a chance to explain that means getting past the basketball stage i.e. the CV reviewer taking pot-shots at the bin with your CV.

ps. Solicitor/Barrister, I'm just all about the justice. I don't like door handles or fire extinguishers though. That should answer your question.

Bepolite

NoQuarter wrote: »

ps. Solicitor/Barrister, I'm just all about the justice. I don't like door handles or fire extinguishers though. That should answer your question.

LOL.

I was walking to college one day along a very narrow path with my Josh Lyman back pack on. In a moment of rare gentlemanly politeness I moved to the left as far as I could to allow two school girls to pass and immediately became entangled on someone's fence.

I thought to myself ending a successful career and engaging in several years of poverty will eventually be worth it when I do exactly the same thing in front of a couple of good looking, young impressionable, female devils.

Valentine1

OP as someone with no law background who did the DIT conversion course and then the FE1s let me give you my two cents.

I found the conversion course very very helpful as I had no idea how to study law or how to deal with the exams, and it was very different from the techniques I had learned during my arts degree.

These are things that the FE-1 prep courses will not teach you. my experience with the prep courses were that they assumed a level of familiarity with legal concepts that comes about from having studied law in the past. That isn't to say that you couldn't pass the FE-1s by simply buying the manuals or attending the courses but I would think it would be exceptionally challenging to try and do so. So much so that it would most likely be a false economy in both time and financial terms.

My experience was that whilst you need the specific knowledge provided by the prep courses to pass the exams you also need the more holistic legal education gained from the conversion course.

TL:DR, The things I learned in DIT stood to me whilst doing the FE-1s and in Blackhall, what's more it helped me in finding a Training Contract as without it I would have had no legal academic qualification on my CV. Wether DIT or Kings Inns is a better option I couldn't say but I would think that either would be of great benefit to you in your career.

Bepolite

OP one of the things I've forgotten in all of this is to wish you the best of luck.

Despite me being an utter gob****e there are still people here who engage with me and give me a steer. That't the best indictment I can level at the legal profession.

There is a barrister I know (Hint: Famke reference) that, I **** you not, hates me - but is still willing to look over my inane ramblings before they get submitted to wherever they're going.

I hope you have as much fun as I've has these last three years. I can think of no other recommendation of doing a law degree from the undergrad level than the people you will meet and the fun you will have.