Vuelta down to two weeks

tunney

Damn it, this was tried a few years back to make room for a bigger american "grand tour". I liked the vuelta as it was

http://t.co/KFShfmeiHw

quozl

Well that'd suck. Part of the joy of the Vuelta is how that much unrelenting climbing can grind people down which can make for real drama as to whether people can hold on for the 3 weeks.

I sound like a sadist posting that!

fat bloke

Is that a suggestion or a decision??

tunney

fat bloke wrote: »

Is that a suggestion or a decision??

My understanding was decision.

ZiabR

fat bloke wrote: »

Is that a suggestion or a decision??

I hope this is a suggestion and not a decision. If it is a decision, it is terrible. Only 2 GRAND tours left then.

Inquitus

That's mad ted, reduction of Grand Tours from 3 to 2 effectively, reduction from 3 weeks to 2 clearly diminishes its prestige and indeed its ability to be considered a Grand Tour.

paddy no 11

I like it, its still going to be a week longer than any other race, will lead to more aggressive riding. Plus its perfect for Dan who wont have to reach for the antibiotics on week 3, just needs to sort out us TT now and grand tour is his. Plenty of names dropped out to focus on the worlds diminishing the vuelta - 2 weeks is a good idea to me.

ednwireland

dont get this no-one is going to ride two tours close together anyway - let them compete for the best riders leave La vuelta alone

simonrooneyzaga

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Plenty of names dropped out to focus on the worlds diminishing the vuelta - 2 weeks is a good idea to me.

Did it? No realistic GC contenders dropped out for this reason, and that was the main draw by a distance. The best Grand Tour of the year by a distance this season.

A real shame if this comes to pass.

Junior

I think it's a proposal lads - http://www.ciclismoafondo.es/competicion/noticias-competicion/articulo/Javier-Guillen-desmiente-reduccion-dos-semanas-vuelta-espana (Article is in Spanish)

ragazzo

paddy no 11 wrote: »

I like it, its still going to be a week longer than any other race, will lead to more aggressive riding. Plus its perfect for Dan who wont have to reach for the antibiotics on week 3, just needs to sort out us TT now and grand tour is his. Plenty of names dropped out to focus on the worlds diminishing the vuelta - 2 weeks is a good idea to me.

I would find it astonishing if the organisers of La Vuelta agreed to this.

Perhaps they have not been consulted and this document will never come to pass.

fat bloke

Would be a poxy move. Vuelta was epic this year.

Brian?

It would be a disgrace if it happened. Already the Tours of California and Britain are on at the same time as the Giro and Vuelta. The UCI has been chasing the Anglophone dollar/pound for years now, which is fine until they start gutting traditional races.

Mefistofelino

Just kite-flying by the CPA. The only people who'll decide on whether the Vuelta is 2 or 3 weeks is ASO.

pelevin

Not that I like the idea but actually virtually the first half of this Vuelta was something of a phoney war in terms of GC, with the exception of the TT. It could have been just as epic over say a 17/18 day race but with a bit more variety. There were really only two big mountain days in terms of really deciding things for the GC lads but quite a few it seemed pretty tough finishes but with little real scope for significant time diferences.

ROK ON

If authorities and tour organisers want to contribute to making GTs more interesting and 'down tonthe wire' then I would suggest the following;
Max stage length of 150km - I believe that in excess of 200k should be for 1day races only.
Reduce team size to 8 initially with a goal of going to 7.
A gt champion to be the best all round cyclist - stages should be more technical not less.
Mix of climbs, rolling terrain and flat stages.
Three TTs (up, down and flat),
No team TTs even though I think it is a beautiful discipline.

I read an interview with the TDF stage scout and route designer a few years back - he has an aspiration for a GT with no high mountain stages.

Beasty

I have no problem with this proposal. The calendar looks overcrowded as it is, and if the experience of posters posting in this forum is anything to go by, the Vuelta is significantly less popular than the Tour. We often get stage specific threads for the Tour with 250-300+ posts. There may have been the odd day with perhaps a hundred or so posts for the Vuelta this year, but for one stage we had 8, and on some days the Tour of Britain was just about getting as many posts. It seems to me that the Vuelta is more for the diehards (and I appreciate a number of posters in this forum fall into that category)

No-one in their right mind is going to make a serious attempt on all 3 grand tours nowadays, and perhaps keeping the spotlight on 2 of them is the way to go.

(/takes cover....)

quozl

Beasty wrote: »

No-one in their right mind is going to make a serious attempt on all 3 grand tours nowadays, and perhaps keeping the spotlight on 2 of them is the way to go.

I agree, so based on recent quality we need to ditch the TdF

pelevin

Beasty wrote: »

No-one in their right mind is going to make a serious attempt on all 3 grand tours nowadays, and perhaps keeping the spotlight on 2 of them is the way to go.

(/takes cover....)

You wouldn't have thought so but I actually read in the last day or two Contador actually mulling over the attractiveness of just that idea! Nibali seems is, due to nationality presumably, being heavily pulled towards targeting both the TdF & Giro next year. The thing is if such major riders did start spreading themselves wider like this - not that I can see Contador really going for all 3 - then this would hopefully become more of a norm with not everything about the Tour, & so the big GC lads not a serious disadvantage to guys who were really looking at just the TdF. A kind of gentleman's agreement moving away from the excessive specialisation from around 1990 on.

Trying to keep doping stuff out of this as irrelevant but if you look at Armstrong's palmares - 7 TdF wins & precious little else! (I know yeah, now he has none.) Compare to the likes of Fignon, Hinault, etc whose wins were spread all over the place.

All a bit off-topic but anyway . . .

letape

[No-one in their right mind is going to make a serious attempt on all 3 grand tours nowadays, and perhaps keeping the spotlight on 2 of them is the way to go.[/QUOTE]

Contador has stated a number of times including just this week that he has a desire to race all three in the same season.

The Vuelta has been the best GT for the last couple of years IMO, not just this year. There are people who will follow the Tour every year and no other race for the rest of the year. That will also be the case as it is the race every one is interested in just like Masters in golf and Wilmbledon. I wouldn't consider its popularity as a barometer for how good the race is or the level of competition in the race.

ednwireland

Beasty wrote: »

(/takes cover....)

throws rock

quozl wrote: »

I agree, so based on recent quality we need to ditch the TdF

absolutely, when was the last decent tdf anyway. the giro and vuelta provide better action anyway

First_October

Cutting the Vuelta down to two weeks would be a real shame IMO. It's easily been the most entertaining grand tour for the last few years.

ROK ON's suggestions sound very interesting to me; nothing like that will ever happen though, unfortunately.

Brian?

ROK ON wrote: »

If authorities and tour organisers want to contribute to making GTs more interesting and 'down tonthe wire' then I would suggest the following;
Max stage length of 150km - I believe that in excess of 200k should be for 1day races only.
Reduce team size to 8 initially with a goal of going to 7.
A gt champion to be the best all round cyclist - stages should be more technical not less.
Mix of climbs, rolling terrain and flat stages.
Three TTs (up, down and flat),
No team TTs even though I think it is a beautiful discipline.

I read an interview with the TDF stage scout and route designer a few years back - he has an aspiration for a GT with no high mountain stages.

A tour with no high mountains sounds monumentally boring. The 2012 edition was the worst tour I ever remember because of the lack of mountain top finished.

REBELSAFC

First_October wrote: »

Cutting the Vuelta down to two weeks would be a real shame IMO. It's easily been the most entertaining grand tour for the last few years.

ROK ON's suggestions sound very interesting to me; nothing like that will ever happen though, unfortunately.

I'm not sure. Two weeks with one rest day,flat first stage,flat last stage, one crit type TT, one short hilly TT and non stop mountain/rolling stages in between could lead to a non stop action tour for two weeks.

No take it easy for the sprinters day.

I do think reducing the number of riders in a team would make a huge improvement to the excitement. Look at this years Tour of Britain with 6 riders per team. No team was able to dominate and it lead to exciting stage finishes

D3PO

if this were to happen it would be awful.

Its not a GT if its not 3 weeks long in my book. If any GT was to be shelved should be the TdF might have the prestige but the parcours and as a result the spectacle have been awful the last few years.

If its about money move the tour of cali and tour of britain to a diff part of the calendar, but dont let to not WT races impact on the Vuelta.

D3PO

ROK ON wrote: »

If authorities and tour organisers want to contribute to making GTs more interesting and 'down tonthe wire' then I would suggest the following;
Max stage length of 150km - I believe that in excess of 200k should be for 1day races only.
Reduce team size to 8 initially with a goal of going to 7.
A gt champion to be the best all round cyclist - stages should be more technical not less.
Mix of climbs, rolling terrain and flat stages.
Three TTs (up, down and flat),
No team TTs even though I think it is a beautiful discipline.

I read an interview with the TDF stage scout and route designer a few years back - he has an aspiration for a GT with no high mountain stages.

Love these ideas. Would also like to see more crosswind stages than bog standard flat ones.

This years TdF parcours was awful again in my mind but I did like the fact the cobbles were in. Should be a mainstay aswell.

Daroxtar

This year's Vuelta was the best GT of the year. Going into the last week we had 8 of the 10 best cyclists in the world going at it like mad men up the mountains. It was a fabulous spectacle. I'm not a diehard but I was hooked on the Vuelta. Cutting it to 2 weeks would be a disaster IMHO

petethedrummer

Mark my words, a 2 week Vuelta will mark the beginning of the break up of the EU.

paddy no 11

Ah stop, if the participants had turned up at the tour it would have been best, just because they all got injured or decided not to ride doesnt make the vuelta the best.

A two week grand tour could be spectacular, also agree that reducing team size will lead to better racing.

If we have the big 4 + all the french young guns + Dan, Aru and Majka riding Le tour next year it will be the best tour

gordongekko

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Ah stop, if the participants had turned up at the tour it would have been best, just because they all got injured or decided not to ride doesnt make the vuelta the best.

A two week grand tour could be spectacular, also agree that reducing team size will lead to better racing.

If we have the big 4 + all the french young guns + Dan, Aru and Majka riding Le tour next year it will be the best tour

The vuelta has been the best of the gt for a lot longer than this year.

Beasty

petethedrummer wrote: »

Mark my words, a 2 week Vuelta will mark the beginning of the break up of the EU.

I'm sure there will be a "Tour of Caledonia" to step into the breach....

Lusk_Doyle

Beasty wrote: »

I'm sure there will be a "Tour of Caledonia" to step into the breach....

Nah. Swords will have the Tour of Fingal sorted by then. Watch out for the lion on the Skerries stage!

Subpopulus

pelevin wrote: »

[In this year's Vuelta] there were really only two big mountain days in terms of really deciding things for the GC lads but quite a few it seemed pretty tough finishes but with little real scope for significant time diferences.

Opening up significant time differences makes for boring racing. This year's Vuelta had Contador about a minute and a half away from Froome pretty much the whole way through - on every mountain it looked like Froome might sprint away up the hill and take half a minute or a minute out of Contador. Made for very tense watching. It was more or less the same with Horner/Nibali last year too. In the TdF this year once Nibali got a few minutes up on his remaining rivals the result was pretty much never in doubt.

pelevin

Subpopulus wrote: »

Opening up significant time differences makes for boring racing. This year's Vuelta had Contador about a minute and a half away from Froome pretty much the whole way through - on every mountain it looked like Froome might sprint away up the hill and take half a minute or a minute out of Contador. Made for very tense watching. It was more or less the same with Horner/Nibali last year too. In the TdF this year once Nibali got a few minutes up on his remaining rivals the result was pretty much never in doubt.

I don't think GT racing should be about trying to set up intentionally close fights for first. I think it should be a test to find the most worthy winner, & that includes the great mountain stages, & the excitement comes along naturally. Nibali being much the best rider & winning by a very significant margin is not for me any kind of argument against such a course. He was significantly the best rider, & the course accurately reflected that. I didn't find it boring at all. And of course were Froome, Contador & Quintana all present, then the big gaps between Nibali & the rest wouldn't have happened.

The cobbled 'Roubaix' stage made for significant gaps & it was maybe the best day's racing all year. Nibali fully deserved the time he gained on the likes of Contador that day. With the Vuelta you mention from last year, the standout stage by a mile was the last mountain stage, which was far harder than everything else & where the time-gaps would have been biggest.

hf4z6sqo7vjngi

Daroxtar wrote: »

This year's Vuelta was the best GT of the year. Going into the last week we had 8 of the 10 best cyclists in the world going at it like mad men up the mountains. It was a fabulous spectacle. I'm not a diehard but I was hooked on the Vuelta. Cutting it to 2 weeks would be a disaster IMHO

Fully agree and Adam Hansen would not be happy.:D.

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Ah stop, if the participants had turned up at the tour it would have been best, just because they all got injured or decided not to ride doesnt make the vuelta the best.

A two week grand tour could be spectacular, also agree that reducing team size will lead to better racing.

If we have the big 4 + all the french young guns + Dan, Aru and Majka riding Le tour next year it will be the best tour

Have you watched the GTs in the last 3 years in terms of enjoyment and spectacle? It has been Vuelta, Giro and TDF in that order, the only thing that continues to carry TDF is the prestige of event but for the purists the spectacle has been about Vuelta in the last while.

dastardly00

Beasty wrote: »

I have no problem with this proposal. The calendar looks overcrowded as it is, and if the experience of posters posting in this forum is anything to go by, the Vuelta is significantly less popular than the Tour. We often get stage specific threads for the Tour with 250-300+ posts. There may have been the odd day with perhaps a hundred or so posts for the Vuelta this year, but for one stage we had 8, and on some days the Tour of Britain was just about getting as many posts. It seems to me that the Vuelta is more for the diehards (and I appreciate a number of posters in this forum fall into that category)

Ah it's just because I didn't do the stage previews :pac: