All Ireland Scholarships 2014

rm212

Has anyone heard anything in regards to the scholarships this year? I was really hoping to get one but I haven't received anything in the post and Boards has been very quiet, there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about the awards this year.

rm212

rm212 wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything in regards to the scholarships this year? I was really hoping to get one but I haven't received anything in the post and Boards has been very quiet, there doesn't seem to be anyone talking about the awards this year.

Pretty sure I hadn't heard until October last year anyway so don't give up hope just yet

Memories

There has definitely been a few letters sent already as two of my friends got acceptance letters at the end of last week (both going to the same college but from different parts of the country.)

rm212

Ah, that's disappointing I got 2 A1s (one being maths) and 3 A2s for my top five, but, Dublin unfortunately.

EoghanIRL

Between this ,Susi and the hear scheme us " non disadvantaged students " are really getting screwed over .

rm212

Not really... both this and the HEAR scheme are based on income (the limits aren't exceptionally low) while this scheme is also based on results. It is for people who have had barriers to education with low income (perhaps only have one parent or family issues) but managed to achieve greatly.

EoghanIRL

rm212 wrote: »

Not really... both this and the HEAR scheme are based on income (the limits aren't exceptionally low) while this scheme is also based on results. It is for people who have had barriers to education with low income (perhaps only have one parent or family issues) but managed to achieve greatly.

It should be the more tax you pay the larger the grant you receive .

rm212

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It should be the more tax you pay the larger the grant you receive .

No... the more tax you pay the higher your income and available money for spending on college. The income limits for SUSI, HEAR and the medical card aren't ridiculously low - even people on modest enough income of almost €50,000 per year have their student contribution paid (higher limits for more than 4 children).

The grants, scholarships and bursaries are given to students who's parent have such low income they genuinely cannot afford college. Are you suggesting that students who's parents are unemployed/unqualified/unable to find work should be punished by being denied access to college due to lack of finance even though they are capable?

Remember, the state pays everyone's tuition fees (-student contribution), ranging from 3,000-5,000 per year - so even people on the highest income in the country have a large amount subsidized. This means that most expensive part of education is paid for everyone (apart from those who have to rent - and even on an average income, you get money towards this (non-adjacent grant).

The HEAR scheme has many indicators which must be met to get it, more than just the income element. There must be signs that the student came from a background which puts them at a disadvantage compared to students who do not meet these indicators, which is fair, as these factors are shown to make success in education more difficult.

The All-Ireland Scholarship scheme is the same idea, however, it gives a large financial reward to students from a disadvantaged background who achieved TREMENDOUSLY and defied the normality of people from their background. It is a reward for academic success, where significant barriers made this difficult for students.

Even for people on high income who achieve academic success, there are schemes which reward them. Maynooth give €1000 to first year students who enter with 525 points or more. UCD also run a scheme, along with other universities. Those who achieve academic success are rewarded regardless of income, however, there are extra schemes for those who were disadvantaged and still achieved, and there are schemes to try to help students where third-level education would be impossible to afford without aid.

randylonghorn

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It should be the more tax you pay the larger the grant you receive .

You trolling?

townland92

Have any past winners of the scholarship received their first payment yet? For the past two years my first installment of the scholarship has come on October 4th, but so far there's been no sign of it this year?

townland92

townland92 wrote: »

Have any past winners of the scholarship received their first payment yet? For the past two years my first installment of the scholarship has come on October 4th, but so far there's been no sign of it this year?

October 10th should be first payment according to a letter I got over the summer

EoghanIRL

randylonghorn wrote: »

You trolling?

Not in the slightest .
People who earn well over the Susi limit are also subject to higher tax (over 50 percent ).
I mean why should other people be punished because their parents do well for a living .

With the higher tax bands it might work out better to get a new lower paid job with an income within the Susi threshold .

People who earn more money work might work harder for living ,might have payed a lot of money for their education , create employment .. Etc
Basically after tax they don't earn as much as you think .
Seeing as Susi uses income before tax!
Crazy

Why not just give everyone the same amount of a grant or just give no grants at all .
Also Susi should be based on income after tax .

IncognitoX

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Why not just give everyone the same amount of a grant or just give no grants at all .
Also Susi should be based on income after tax .

a) Because that would be a massive waste of resources as many people do not need it.

b) Because that would prevent many people from having the chance of attaining a third level education.

The government pay most of the fees for all Irish students anyway so I don't think we can complain too much.

randylonghorn

What Incognito said.

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Also Susi should be based on income after tax.

This bit I don't have a huge problem with.

AtomicKoala

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Between this ,Susi and the hear scheme us " non disadvantaged students " are really getting screwed over .

Yes, so screwed over with you're financially unstrained upbringing.

This is awfully rude, but I find it shocking that you'd want to work in a field that revolves around helping people with this 'screw the bottom two quintiles' attitude that you exude.

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It should be the more tax you pay the larger the grant you receive .

Why don't you go to America where grants don't exist? I hear they have no social problems, and college is super cheap because free market or something. Oh wait.

EoghanIRL

AtomicKoala wrote: »

Yes, so screwed over with you're financially unstrained upbringing.

This is awfully rude, but I find it shocking that you'd want to work in a field that revolves around helping people with this 'screw the bottom two quintiles' attitude that you exude.



Why don't you go to America where grants don't exist? I hear they have no social problems, and college is super cheap because free market or something. Oh wait.

Only seeing this now .

Question for you ? Where does the money for the grants in Ireland come from ? Oh yeah that's right .

Also with income after tax some people are earning as much as people who are getting grants , yet they get no grant because of income before tax.

Also i will ignore your impertinent comments on my college course .

Bottom line is that Ireland is not a friendly place for people with high incomes(before tax) .

aleatorio

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Only seeing this now .

Question for you ? Where does the money for the grants in Ireland come from ? Oh yeah that's right .

Also with income after tax some people are earning as much as people who are getting grants , yet they get no grant because of income before tax.

Also i will ignore your impertinent comments on my college course .

Bottom line is that Ireland is not a friendly place for people with high incomes(before tax) .

This was a big issue for me this year, nearly had to take a year out to save and I had been working 2 jobs all year to save for college because I knew I wouldn't be eligible for SUSI, but my parents still had minimal money available after tax to fund my education.
I also wasn't eligible for the All Ireland Scholarship for the same reason.
Luckily The Naughton Scholarship isn't income dependent, I got very very lucky in that regard

EoghanIRL

Yeah that seems to be a big misconception in this thread.
Earning above the Susi threshold doesn't mean that you are able to afford college . In fact it's quite the opposite .
I feel sorry for people who are on the threshold .

AtomicKoala

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Only seeing this now .

Question for you ? Where does the money for the grants in Ireland come from ? Oh yeah that's right .

Taxes. Where else? Are you saying we shouldn't have income transfers?

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Also i will ignore your impertinent comments on my college course.

My point is it I find it bizarre that someone who wants to work in healthcare could have such a negative attitude to grants to those on low incomes and desire some sort of libertarian low tax regime.

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Bottom line is that Ireland is not a friendly place for people with high incomes(before tax) .

Why not? You get to live in a peaceful, safe society with half decent services. Add to that, the tax burden in Ireland isn't all that high. Ireland doesn't have that low a GINI coefficient, it's not like we need to tax the well off less.

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Earning above the Susi threshold doesn't mean that you are able to afford college . In fact it's quite the opposite .

Of course. But you're a lot more likely to struggle if you're below the threshold. Thus, how is it the opposite?

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I feel sorry for people who are on the threshold .

Indeed, but the grant isn't simply linear either I suppose. I don't get a grant but a grant system is certainly necessary, unless we increase taxes on the well off to ensure universal funding for students (for living expenses and such), as they'll be the ones who benefit. Honestly I'd prefer universal provision (as we have with child benefit, as that way we can transfer income from those without children to those with children), but then some higher earners will just moan more about the tax burden.

EoghanIRL

Think of it like this .
Many people are in this situation .

1) you are over the threshold and don't receive a grant .
2) you can just about afford college.
3) you give more than half of your income to the government . E.g for every 10 euros you earn you keep <5.
You struggle to be able to go to college .
4) you are giving more than 50 percent of your income to taxes which help other people not struggle when you are struggling yourself . What type of logic is that ?

AtomicKoala

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Think of it like this .
Many people are in this situation .

1) you are over the threshold and don't receive a grant .
2) you can just about afford college.

Indeed. An unfortunate situation. I guess you would agree with increasing grant thresholds instead of cutting the top rate of tax then?

EoghanIRL wrote: »

3) you give more than half of your income to the government . E.g for every 10 euros you earn you keep <5.
You struggle to be able to go to college .
4) you are giving more than 50 percent of your income to taxes which help other people not struggle when you are struggling yourself . What type of logic is that ?

Eoghan. You can't be giving half your income to the government unless you earn vast sums of money. The max amount one can pay is about 52%, and obviously that's only after a fairly high threshold.

Ireland's tax take as a percentage of GDP is around 25%. So let's kill this train of economic misinformation. High earners aren't taxed too much so that their kids can't afford college. You're thinking of lower middle class people who just miss out on SUSI criteria. They pay nowhere near half of their income in tax.

EoghanIRL

It's doesn't really matter what rate of tax they pay . What matters is that there are people out there who need the grant who are not getting it . And that's just life I know , but there should be a fairer system which ensures that everyone who genuinely needs the grant gets it.

It just seems like flawed logic tbh . Make more money and be able to afford college for your kids less than people who get a grant (and earn less money).

There is no incentive for people to work with this type of a system . Why not just stay on the dole , get a full grant and medical card( to get free school buses etc). Thus it is a closed circuit .

So you could increase the threshold , which in my opinion is the logical and best choice . However the chances of this happening are slim to none .

AtomicKoala

Look Eoghan, my issue is that you make it look as if it's high earners rather than lower middle class workers who struggle.

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Bottom line is that Ireland is not a friendly place for people with high incomes(before tax) .

This is the statement you originally made. You made it sound like funding college is a problem for a family earning €140k combined.

robman60

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It just seems like flawed logic tbh . Make more money and be able to afford college for your kids less than people who get a grant (and earn less money).

There is no incentive for people to work with this type of a system . Why not just stay on the dole , get a full grant and medical card( to get free school buses etc). Thus it is a closed circuit

This is my problem with the whole system, and the most relevant point made in this discussion so far. People aren't rewarded for working hard and earning a decent middle income for their efforts.

I have a friend whose parents quit working voluntarily and rely completely on the state as a result. He gets the full grant and as a result probably lives more comfortably in college than most of us who aren't grant recipients. This is my problem with the system. I support equal opportunity in education but I don't accept that he should have a higher standard of living off the tax money of people who fall just above the income threshold.

The fact that SUSI is based on gross income is also unjust. Horizontal equity doesn't exist in our tax system so using gross income means there are families who have the same net income yet some will receive financial assistance while their equally well-off counterparts won't.

randylonghorn

EoghanIRL wrote: »

I feel sorry for people who are on the threshold.

I don't think any of us would disagree with you on that, and even those slightly above it.

It's very hard to devise a system which is absolutely fair without complicating it so much that it's impossible to administer though.

It's a huge step from that to your original comment though:

EoghanIRL wrote: »

It should be the more tax you pay the larger the grant you receive .

spurious

You don't know how lucky you are with grants and support available to so many people.
Talk to some older people, about how it was in the heady days of the 80s.

AtomicKoala

randylonghorn wrote: »

It's a huge step from that to your original comment though:

That was my major gripe with Eoghan. That's the complete antithesis of a progressive scheme of income redistribution.

rm212

I actually cannot believe it!! Over the moon right now!! I got the consideration letter for the scholarship this morning! That kind of money means so much to me, I'm speechless. This late, I had already got my head around the fact I wasn't getting it. Wow...

rm212

rm212 wrote: »

I actually cannot believe it!! Over the moon right now!! I got the consideration letter for the scholarship this morning! That kind of money means so much to me, I'm speechless. This late, I had already got my head around the fact I wasn't getting it. Wow...

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty sure I hadn't heard until October last year anyway so don't give up hope just yet

*cough*

rm212

[Deleted User] wrote: »

*cough*

I know, I know. But you got it the week before this week last year, I saw your post in another thread. So, I basically told myself I wasn't getting it to avoid further disappointment. I was shocked to receive it this morning - I'm glad I gave up on the idea of getting it because it made the moment even better!

rm212

One thing I'm a bit confused about: I've been looking at the income limits and rules regarding medical card eligibility for those aged 16-25 and it appears that I am now considered "financially independent" to my mother because of my income from the All-Ireland Scholarship and Special rate of maintenance grant from SUSI. Strangely enough, it also appears that because of the All-Ireland Scholarship, my income now actually exceeds the weekly threshold for the medical card, and it appears I am no longer entitled to one. I am sure this must be a mistake, but nowhere can I find anything which says that the scholarship is disregarded when calculating income.

Why I am curious about this is that I would possibly like to work part-time next summer (perhaps as a summer intern), and I am afraid that the income earned from this would cause myself or my family to lose certain social welfare benefits. Also, if I was to lose to the medical card due to doing part time summer work, would I lose the All-Ireland Scholarship in future years of college? Finally, does anyone know what would happen if I was only to work for the three months of summer; would I lose the medical card and then get it back once I was finished, or...? The medical card rules are very confusing to try to work out. I would appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this!

Here are the guidelines: http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/list/1/schemes/mc/forms/assessmentguidelines.pdf