Any thoughts on this?

Pinkycharm

Found where I was chatting about before.

MOD: My last thread the picture wouldn't upload "Any thoughts??" so you can delete it.

mocmo

Looks handmade/forged, could be medieval but I'm no expert. Where did it come from?

Pinkycharm

mocmo wrote: »

Looks handmade/forged, could be medieval but I'm no expert. Where did it come from?

it came from a motte and bailey. It was found after bad weather moved some of the mounds. There was a little chest near it but can't source it. This looks like it was more for a door though

mocmo

It does look like a door key all right.

Is it from the site you posted about before? Is it a recent or old find? In either case you really should bring it into the National Museum and inform them of where it came from and of damage to the site. If the mounds have shifted there is a risk of further material being exposed and/or destroyed and also a potential public safety issue.

Pinkycharm

mocmo wrote: »

It does look like a door key all right.

Is it from the site you posted about before? Is it a recent or old find? In either case you really should bring it into the National Museum and inform them of where it came from and of damage to the site. If the mounds have shifted there is a risk of further material being exposed and/or destroyed and also a potential public safety issue.

yeah it is, found about 25 years ago id say now at this stage. it was brought to the museum years and years ago but the people that had it wouldn't sign it over, think that was in the 80s. its in a glass case now in their sitting room.

loads of things have been found since just cant get hold of the people who have them for photos.

They've been informed almost annually about damage to the site and nothing has been done about it. The site is half the size it originally was in the 60s.

nobody really knows that the site is there only the neighbours in the area and its so overgrown that nobody will go in there.

I'm just wondering how significant this could be in the wider scale of things. Could this key along with the other things tell a story of the place or are they just random things with no link.

This pic is about 10 years old as well its off a printed photo but i know the key still exists and have seen it myself since.

slowburner

Pinkycharm wrote: »

I'm just wondering how significant this could be in the wider scale of things. Could this key along with the other things tell a story of the place or are they just random things with no link.

If objects are removed from a site without proper archaeological methods, they end up as nothing more than trinkets and baubles, probably adorning someone's mantlepiece.
The true story is told by the context in which the object is found.
Take that key as an example. It probably is quite an early example and might well be of interest in itself to collectors, but it can tell us very little about the site now. We know it was for opening a lock, we don't know if that lock was to a door on site, a casket or even if it came from the site at all. It could just as easily have been lost by a visitor - we will never know. If the key had been found in context, we might have been able to learn a great deal more about the site. The key could have been an important clue in the chain of evidence that builds a bigger picture. It could have told us about what sort of structures were there, who lived in them and probably a great deal more about their life and times.
In context, an object can tell a story. Out of context, it's dumb.

It sounds as though the site you refer to has suffered long term damage and has been 'picked over' as objects became exposed. Hopefully, people have not been digging. It is an offence to remove objects from a National Monument or to excavate without a license.
If a site is under threat, then it is vital that the National Monuments Service is informed.

(Monument Protection Unit)
nationalmonuments@ahg.gov.ie
or
01 888 2000

mocmo

Pinkycharm wrote: »

They've been informed almost annually about damage to the site and nothing has been done about it. The site is half the size it originally was in the 60s.

This is disappointing to hear, has anyone from the authorities even visited following such reports?

Pinkycharm

I asked an archaeologist from cork to go up sometime that he was around the area and he did and said he believed it was an area of significant importance to Offaly as a whole just by looking at it and to the story of Birr.

Its crazy though- someone has actually build their house on top of it more or less (80s or 90s build) as well and there were council cottages built in the 50s across the road from it. It was a made a national monument in 1985 i think. I've a list of things that were found from the people who more or less found them or their family members but I can't get pictures of the objects. I did a course on archaeology years ago and used this as a case study and thats they only reason any of this ever came to light (objects, story of the place etc). I know the location of where a sword was reburied because the person that took it had their house go on fire and they blamed that so they reburied it and they showed someone i know the spot but god knows who else. There is a story of a small chest, two swords, a key, jewelry, coins and a leather pouch that was left exposed. I believe a cup was found too like a chalice back years ago when a dog dug it up but havent had it confirmed and the people that would know are nearly all dead.

The national museum have had 4 emails about it last year alone with no reply from people living on the road. I actually wrote them one again in February because the place is as overgrown as hell and last year people started dumping stuff in it but the neighbors took it back out.

Pinkycharm

I'm going to email them myself again today.

Meathlass

slowburner wrote: »

If a site is under threat, then it is vital that the National Monuments Service is informed.

(Monument Protection Unit)
nationalmonuments@ahg.gov.ie
or
01 888 2000

I found the Monument Protection Unit very helpful. Give them a call and speak to someone rather than emailing/writing.

Pinkycharm

Meathlass wrote: »

I found the Monument Protection Unit very helpful. Give them a call and speak to someone rather than emailing/writing.

Was onto them since, someone will be out over the next few weeks.

bawn79

Pinkycharm wrote: »

Was onto them since, someone will be out over the next few weeks.

Great stuff - can't wait to hear what they say.