HE vs AA

larrymiller

Opinions lads on a calf to beef system bucket fed calfs from dairy herd.
Which do yee prefer first thing that comes to mind is small aa from heifers

Base price

I prefer a good straight FR to a lot of the AAx or HEx that I have seen. The difference in cost is also very important. We bought 12 HEx bull calves earlier in the year. They were up on 6 weeks old - €212 each. Sold them off to lads looking for calves to go onto cows. I held onto one, he is on a JE cow along with a FR. To be honest we have better FR bulls that cost less than half the price of the HEx's.
There are also a lot of JExAA about. I know of a dairy farmer who was putting AAx on their cards
I also wonder how long the bonus will continue for.

mf240

Agree buy a good straight friesan. Buy him cheap and if you havd weight when he goes to the factory youll still get a good cheque even if you dont get top price.

The bonus for aa and herefords sounds great on paper but there are so many hoops do jump through, if one of them only p1ssed croked you wont get it.

simx

my advice if buying a friesian buy a goodish one, holstein types are very cheap for a reason and will never be great animals, learnt this from my own purchases in the past and a dealer that finishes all fr blks said that exact statement to me once

larrymiller

IMO I think it's getting harder and harder to good fr without hol in them.
Also when things get tough with factories fr are first to take the hit! And hardest to get rid of!

simx

larrymiller wrote: »

IMO I think it's getting harder and harder to good fr without hol in them.
Also when things get tough with factories fr are first to take the hit! And hardest to get rid of!

id have to agree fresians are getting more holstein influenced, that second part can be true too, i know alot of shrewd men that have finish continentals but id say i know more that finish freisians, less money tied up in stock could be a lot of it

whelan2

how much is too much to pay for a wh calf 2 weeks old? There was some crazy prices for them in the spring. Have spoken to a load of people who are thinking of buying wh calves next spring. When everyone is going one way i would be inclined to go in the other direction

J.O. Farmer

Base price wrote: »

There are also a lot of JExAA about. I know of a dairy farmer who was putting AAx on their cards
I also wonder how long the bonus will continue for.

The JExAA calves should be AAX on the cards as it's normally the bull breed that goes on the card. Presumably that is because most people use full bred bulls and the calf will be at least half whatever the bull is. Problem there is mammys not bringing much to the party for a beef animal.

smokey-fitz

whelan2 wrote: »

how much is too much to pay for a wh calf 2 weeks old? There was some crazy prices for them in the spring. Have spoken to a load of people who are thinking of buying wh calves next spring. When everyone is going one way i would be inclined to go in the other direction

Yea think thats a good idea.. ive all he here, all cows are he and hex. Got rid of my he bull earlier in the year and replaced with a lim so will be interested in what comes of it next year. I think the market will be flooded with them soon anyway and bonus' may be withdrawn in a year or 2. Will still ai a few, nothing like a field of red wh though..

Would the hex fr still fatten better than br fr? And turn out quicker with less cost?

Base price

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

The JExAA calves should be AAX on the cards as it's normally the bull breed that goes on the card. Presumably that is because most people use full bred bulls and the calf will be at least half whatever the bull is. Problem there is mammys not bringing much to the party for a beef animal.

Just realised I typed AAx. He was putting them down as AA without the x on the card.

J.O. Farmer

Base price wrote: »

Just realised I typed AAx. He was putting them down as AA without the x on the card.

Hows he managing that. Surely it should be AAX when you send off your card with mammys number on it corresponding to a jersey.

Base price

Don't know but we saw 5 of them in a pen when we went to pick up FR calves for export. He told us himself that is what he was doing.
I thought it was very dishonest.

Feckthis

Base price wrote: »

Don't know but we saw 5 of them in a pen when we went to pick up FR calves for export. He told us himself that is what he was doing.
I thought it was very dishonest.

Have what looks like 2 of them here. AA on the cards. Very disappointed with them. They we're born in the spring and still look like they are 6 weeks old. It's disheartening when you are trying to build up a herd. To get cot by one of these cowboys doing such a thing. I hope they never have a days luck in their life .

larrymiller

Yeah I've seen the jex in some aa.
I just stay away from that whole batch when at the mart.

Which breed would yee think finished the easiest and quickest, I don't think there's a massive difference

Base price

Don't know to be honest but I do know that people are inclined to let them go over fat and end up getting cut on prices.

Farmer Pudsey

When you cross a Jersey bull on to fresian cows most of the calves are black in colour at birth. Some lads are registering these as AAX or LMX depending on what bull they use to mop up. Can be hard to spot from back a bit from the ring when buying calves especially if he registers them 7-10 days after birth.

Because of this and because a lot of AA bulls on dairy herds are easy calving for heifers I be keeping away from AA calves. HE are moving in a similar direction. more and more farmers are looking for short gestation bulls that are following the AA problems with the exception that it is hard mark a HEX on the card without a white head on the calf.

Hard to beat Friesians especially if someone else rears them. Yes you may make more from Contenintals or Herefords. However go out and try and buy 50-80 Contenintal or Hereford stores any autumn and compare to Friesian stores. Most lads that I see buying Contenintals or Herefords have inherited land and only ever buy fancy jeeps.

I stick to buying Friesians, land and drive a van

farm14

Hex & aax both v good cattle. Money made out of friesans plenty of times but unless you can get good square british friesan type id have my doubts about them. Holstein types will eat a mountain of stuff & are very hard to put cover on. With the shocking bad price for overage cattle if you had them over 30 months they wouldn't pay. Aax & hex can flesh up v well on grass or high quality silage

simx

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

When you cross a Jersey bull on to fresian cows most of the calves are black in colour at birth. Some lads are registering these as AAX or LMX depending on what bull they use to mop up. Can be hard to spot from back a bit from the ring when buying calves especially if he registers them 7-10 days after birth.

Because of this and because a lot of AA bulls on dairy herds are easy calving for heifers I be keeping away from AA calves. HE are moving in a similar direction. more and more farmers are looking for short gestation bulls that are following the AA problems with the exception that it is hard mark a HEX on the card without a white head on the calf.

Hard to beat Friesians especially if someone else rears them. Yes you may make more from Contenintals or Herefords. However go out and try and buy 50-80 Contenintal or Hereford stores any autumn and compare to Friesian stores. Most lads that I see buying Contenintals or Herefords have inherited land and only ever buy fancy jeeps.

I stick to buying Friesians, land and drive a van

Haha I love that last quote, I know of two brothers that buy nothing only the best continental heifers to finish, both have jeeps and something like 100k Sfp between them, they'd see friesians as poor mans cattle

Base price

simx wrote: »

Haha I love that last quote, I know of two brothers that buy nothing only the best continental heifers to finish, both have jeeps and something like 100k Sfp between them, they'd see friesians as poor mans cattle

We have a neighbour that has a fine suckler herd and produces quality CH cattle.
He calls our bulls vermin :eek:

simx

Base price wrote: »

We have a neighbour that has a fine suckler herd and produces quality CH cattle.
He calls our bulls vermin :eek:

He's entitled to his opinion, probably neighbours here saying the same about me ha, I'm and O&P man through and through

whelan2

top calf in local sale last week was a lim heifer at 265 , you could buy 5 goodish fr bulls for that. Makes ya think .

Reggie.

Base price wrote: »

Don't know but we saw 5 of them in a pen when we went to pick up FR calves for export. He told us himself that is what he was doing.
I thought it was very dishonest.

I'd say there's a world of that going on

simx

whelan2 wrote: »

top calf in local sale last week was a lim heifer at 265 , you could buy 5 goodish fr bulls for that. Makes ya think .

Seen a good enough quality black lim heifer in Carlow Monday making 325, calves seemed to be on fire there Monday

whelan2

simx wrote: »

Seen a good enough quality black lim heifer in Carlow Monday making 325, calves seemed to be on fire here Monday

whats the point though, great for the seller and all that but in a year or so's time they buyer will b crying that they cant make money on them.... Person who buys my angus calves used to buy the dearest caalves each week in the sales, they learnt the hard way

Reggie.

whelan2 wrote: »

whats the point though, great for the seller and all that but in a year or so's time they buyer will b crying that they cant make money on them.... Person who buys my angus calves used to buy the dearest caalves each week in the sales, they learnt the hard way

Ain't that the truth

_Brian

I can see this spring being hard to buy calves.
Lots of lads talking about buying and rearing them.
The AAx problem means that they can only really be bought from a trusted source ex farm.

Calf prices in general are gone too high in the spring , a boon for sellers, but for lads rearing them I'm seeing little margins.

whelan2

have 3 angus calves and 1 jex calf out in the paddock at the minute, i cant for the life of me see how you could confuse the jex for an angus

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

I can see this spring being hard to buy calves.
Lots of lads talking about buying and rearing them.
The AAx problem means that they can only really be bought from a trusted source ex farm.

Calf prices in general are gone too high in the spring , a boon for sellers, but for lads rearing them I'm seeing little margins.

Yeah even last year the prices were serious

_Brian

whelan2 wrote: »

have 3 angus calves and 1 jex calf out in the paddock at the minute, i cant for the life of me see how you could confuse the jex for an angus

Not many if us can say we never get caught

eddiek

whelan2 wrote: »

have 3 angus calves and 1 jex calf out in the paddock at the minute, i cant for the life of me see how you could confuse the jex for an angus

any chance of a photo whelan?

whelan2

eddiek wrote: »

any chance of a photo whelan?

just loaded them up-as in sold them- photo of jex on dairy thread last week.

Farmer Pudsey

whelan2 wrote: »

just loaded them up-as in sold them- photo of jex on dairy thread last week.

I saw him and bumped him up on dairy thread. One like that are obiviously JEX. It the pure black ones that lads register 7-10 days late and sell as 10-20 day olds when they are a month. If you are up back of the ring and watching the breed it often can be hard to judge.

There was another breeed brown swiss that caught lads as well the had the charlois colouring again hard to spot if in the rushes fo 10-14 days.

larrymiller

I've seen a lot of that jex as aa craic.
What can ya do!
People say about fr being a lot cheaper but I think that keeping them a lot longer than others and needing more meal is going to eat into that difference

simx

larrymiller wrote: »

I've seen a lot of that jex as aa craic.
What can ya do!
People say about fr being a lot cheaper but I think that keeping them a lot longer than others and needing more meal is going to eat into that difference

If buying calves ya should buy a few fr aswell as hex or aa then see at the end of the system which did the best

trixi2011

Used to rear Herford calves in New Zealand as a bit of a sideliner got caught badly the first year kept a few red white heads and some with broken faces, beef men would only take calve with complete white faces and had to be black white heads. They wouldn't take red white heads for fear of jersey blood. Then any Friesians had to have 4 complete white socks and a white star on their heads to be sought after for beef.

smokey-fitz

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

I saw him and bumped him up on dairy thread. One like that are obiviously JEX. It the pure black ones that lads register 7-10 days late and sell as 10-20 day olds when they are a month. If you are up back of the ring and watching the breed it often can be hard to judge.

There was another breeed brown swiss that caught lads as well the had the charlois colouring again hard to spot if in the rushes fo 10-14 days.

Its to easily done imo, I had 4 young heifers calve earlier in the year, teenage pregnancies :P anyway 3 came as red wh's and 1 was a fr!! Since all of mine were he I stuck the fr heifer down as he.. so I have a fr coloured purebred he haha.. I'll be keeping or factory job anyway, dont think ill cod to many with her if I tried.

But on another note she is one of the biggest calves I have at the moment and thriving, well filled out to because she is still on the cow and the cow has feck all milk so fr can surprise you too

Bellview

whelan2 wrote: »

have 3 angus calves and 1 jex calf out in the paddock at the minute, i cant for the life of me see how you could confuse the jex for an angus

Agree. All a buyer need do is check the poll and a jex head is normally ugly

weatherbyfoxer

Awfully lot to be said for buying off someone who you can trust.I try book 10 bfx calves off a dairy farmer up the road every year now,no competition with dealers at the ring and no doctored breed or age on the card!