Need to break lease, any advice?

RoyalMarine

Hi guys,

Need some info if possible.

I moved into a house under a 1 year lease with my partner. She decided to leave there this week and has abandoned ship without any help on bills / rent, and has moved out. I'm now facing an issue where I can't afford to keep renting this place on my own.

My rent is pretty much due this week, I can't afford it. I have enough to cover a week or 2, and to make sure all the bills are paid to date.

I need to move out, and I'm going to stay with family for a few weeks until I have saved up enough to rent my own place.

The estate agent and landlord have advised I will lose my deposit regardless of what happens as I have broken the lease.

I feel like my back is up against a wall here. They are demanding I pay this month's rent now. I told them I can pay the month's rent, but I will be broke, and probably have to borrow to pay it in full. Without return of my deposit after 30 days notice, I'm up shít creek and I've no paddle.

I don't know what to do at this stage. I fee like I want to just move out today and not pay the month's rent. But I need to serve my 30 days notice. But I can't afford it as it's a lot to pay on my own, and I will be losing my deposit too.

Can anyone who has been in a similar situation help here? What would be the consequences of me just moving my stuff out today and breaking my lease?


The house is in perfect condition internally, however the back garden is not so good. The landlord was paying people to cut it for her over the past few months it seems, but they never collected the grass, and the majority of it is dead. So I pulled a lot of it up, and I set down grass seeds. (I was trying to make it a nice place.. but time was not on my side it seems!).. It looks terrible out there, but once the new seeds grow, it will be nice.

I have no alternative suggestions at the moment and I'm starting to feel pretty down over it.

BanjoKelly

Very sorry to hear your circumstances. You must be all over the place. In your situation you have two options
1) Move out straight away and lose your deposit.
2) Move out after paying your rent for a notice period and lose your deposit (according to the landlord / agency).

Number 2 here looks manufactured by the landlord / agency. If you are being fined for not seeing out the lease, and being told the lease has been broken, then why would you abide by the lease to serve out a notice period that applies only to an unbroken lease? If the lease is broken it no longer applies - so the notice period no longer applies.

I think the landlord / agency is being unfair in not allowing you to serve out your notice and at the end, get your full deposit back due to the exceptional circumstances of your breakup (which couldn't be reasonably foreseen).

I would put that to them and see what they offer - say it's the best you can do and promise all bills will be paid. They'd be mad not to take it. Get in writing that they will refund your deposit assuming there is no damage.

I also think your ex is still liable for the rent if you both signed the lease.

godtabh

Are both name son the lease? If its just yours you can be liable for the remaining rent. Try and get some one to take over the lease. Dont just move out and hope for the best. Engage with the LL

endacl

If both names are on the lease, both parties are jointly and severally responsible for the rent.

Crappy deal, OP. I know what I'd do...

Help!!!!

Your ex should pay half the rent & half the bills

RoyalMarine

Both names are on the lease. Getting her to assist at this stage is not an option.

I wrote a letter requesting permission to assign new tenants, but I was told by the estate agent that this is not allowed as it's covered in my lease. (which it's not, it only states about subletting..) The estate agent seemed to argue until they were blue in the face.

They won't consider it as an option.

They said they want to find tenants for the house if I'm leaving, and the landlord will keep my deposit as I will be breaking the lease.

Mrs OBumble

Move out yourself now.

Start looking for someone to take over the lease, and willing to move in immediately. This will be a lot easier with your stuff gone. As soon as you find them (and make sure it's a reasonable person, not some nightmare(, ask the LL to re-assign the lease - and say that they will start paying the minute they move in.

If the LL agrees to this, then ask them to do a move-out inspection immediately and work out how much of your deposit you have actually lost based on work they have to get done and receipts for. Then calculate how much rent you owe them: they can only charge you for the period until the new people move in. Square up with them at that time. (Yes, I am aware that the rent will be paid late - but equally I am absolutely NOT advising you to not pay.)
If the LL disagrees, they are effectively taking it over themselves, and the same thing applies from the date of their refusal.

(Life sucks sometimes .. sorry for your relationship troubles ... better luck next time, and ahh, try and save a bit more a buffer, too.)



NB Legally your ex is equally liable, if his/her name is on the lease. However as you have been left "holding the baby" so to speak, I would tend to not try pursing this - it's likely to be more trouble than it worth.

JimBobPlayer

Miss O'Bumble - you haven't a clue.

1. You need to write formally to the LL requesting to re-assign the lease. Google PRTB/Threshold and look up your personal situation - It's all covered.
2. Jointly and severally means that either can be pursued.

JimBobPlayer

btw - if they refuse to reassign the lease, you have even stronger rights.

Marcusm

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Both names are on the lease. Getting her to assist at this stage is not an option.

I wrote a letter requesting permission to assign new tenants, but I was told by the estate agent that this is not allowed as it's covered in my lease. (which it's not, it only states about subletting..) The estate agent seemed to argue until they were blue in the face.

They won't consider it as an option.

They said they want to find tenants for the house if I'm leaving, and the landlord will keep my deposit as I will be breaking the lease.

You need to look at s186 of Residential Tenancies Act 2004; if you have been refused permission to assign you are entitled to terminate the tenancy irrespective if the terms of the written lease. You must give appropriate notice but they can only retain your deposit to deal with damage beyond normal wear and tear. Further, if the landlord has been paying someone to maintain the garden, I would strongly argue that any issue is between the landlord and the gardener.

Mrs OBumble

JimBobPlayer wrote: »

Miss O'Bumble - you haven't a clue.

1. You need to write formally to the LL requesting to re-assign the lease ...

... to a specific person, not just in general.


It's Mrs O'Bumble, btw, not Miss, and I specialise in pragmatic approaches rather than legalism.

Beaner1

SImple. Just rent it out through reassignment. If the landlord has an issue tell him to jump and you can get your deposit.

johnnyskeleton

RoyalMarine wrote: »

Both names are on the lease. Getting her to assist at this stage is not an option.

I wrote a letter requesting permission to assign new tenants, but I was told by the estate agent that this is not allowed as it's covered in my lease. (which it's not, it only states about subletting..) The estate agent seemed to argue until they were blue in the face.

They won't consider it as an option.

They said they want to find tenants for the house if I'm leaving, and the landlord will keep my deposit as I will be breaking the lease.

Thats illegal to refuse a sublet and if they have done so you should get your deposit back. Contact the prtb and lodge a complaint instantly

The Spider

Irregardless, you need to move as soon as you can, I was that soldier moved in with the ex, she moved out I managed to cover the rent, but because the place was in a good location didn't move, only when I did move out did I move on with my life, a landlords not going to pursue you, they know they haven't a hope in getting the rent, if I was you I'd just up sticks and go, tell them you're off, believe me if they keep your deposit they'll be happy.

Mental health is more important than rattling around and seeing memories everywhere.

cerastes

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Thats illegal to refuse a sublet and if they have done so you should get your deposit back. Contact the prtb and lodge a complaint instantly

complete nonsense
a landlord can refuse to allow a tenant sublet, but it leads to other things.

What is the lease OP?
Fixed term or part 4?

How long have you been in occupation

your best bet is to stay in contact with the landlord too, if they contact you, Id respond or call back when you can as soon as possible.
Let them know your circumstances, but dont expect anything because of that, being contactable and reasonable could still end up with them being understanding and willing to provide a reference which could go some way to help get you somewhere else.

Necro

Surely if your exes name is on the lease you can pay them half, and tell them to pursue her for the rest? Same with bills. I know it might be difficult, but why should you be left to carry the entire can for someone else?
Pay them half, half the bills (unless your name is on all the bills) and move out. You're more than likely going to have to take the hit on your deposit but I think it's really the LLs perogative to pursue the other party on the lease.

endacl

Necrominus wrote: »

I think it's really the LLs perogative to pursue the other party on the lease.

You think wrong, though.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Jointly+and+severally+liable

cerastes

It may be possible for you to remove your self from this situation OP if you can clear up some details, you can operate within the rules and not be at fault and the landlord may get paid for their entitlement.

No need to listen to people helping to get you in trouble, by telling you to clear out and stuff the landlord.
You'll be able to stay up till the notice period has ended, assuming you do it right.

Necro

endacl wrote: »

You think wrong, though.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Jointly+and+severally+liable

Why should the OP be held responsible for the other party refusing to pay? You're basically saying that the other party can bugger off and not be liable. That to me is simply nonsense.

endacl

Necrominus wrote: »

Why should the OP be held responsible for the other party refusing to pay? You're basically saying that the other party can bugger off and not be liable. That to me is simply nonsense.

Its harsh, but its the way it is. I'm not 'basically saying' anything, by the way. I'm simply stating the legal fact.

Necro

endacl wrote: »

Its harsh, but its the way it is. I'm not 'basically saying' anything, by the way. I'm simply stating the legal fact.

And it's still the LLs perogative to follow that line. The OP doesn't have the means to pay the rent by themselves, and shouldn't IMO. If it was me, that's how I'd react and take my chances with a court if it came to it. But I am a rather stubborn mule in fairness....

MouseTail

I would just leave OP. Sh1t happens, LLs know this, and they are not going to pursue you for the rent.

Mrs OBumble

Necrominus wrote: »

Why should the OP be held responsible for the other party refusing to pay? You're basically saying that the other party can bugger off and not be liable. That to me is simply nonsense.

Feel free to share your opinion with your TD if you think the law needs to be changed.

In the meantime though, that's the way it is: if you both sign, you're both liable for the full amount.

Do you wanna hear something even worse: if you're married then you are liable for any debts the other person racks up until a separation order is granted. You don't even need to sign up for the specific debt, the very fact of being married to them does the trick with just their signature.

cerastes

Necrominus wrote: »

Why should the OP be held responsible for the other party refusing to pay? You're basically saying that the other party can bugger off and not be liable. That to me is simply nonsense.

Because they signed an agreement

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Feel free to share your opinion with your TD if you think the law needs to be changed.

In the meantime though, that's the way it is: if you both sign, you're both liable for the full amount.

Do you wanna hear something even worse: if you're married then you are liable for any debts the other person racks up until a separation order is granted. You don't even need to sign up for the specific debt, the very fact of being married to them does the trick with just their signature.

I wouldnt be so sure on that, in this case they will have signed no agreement, Id be looking for advice.

shruikan2553

They can't refuse to reassign the lease unless there is a problem with the new tenant within reason. No idea if you can just break the lease if they refuse but it would make sense.

cerastes

No offence, but trying to help some people is like pulling teeth

OP, how long are you there and what type of lease is it?
avoid getting yourself in a worse situation by just doing what some people are suggesting.

drumswan

shruikan2553 wrote: »

They can't refuse to reassign the lease unless there is a problem with the new tenant within reason. No idea if you can just break the lease if they refuse but it would make sense.

There is no 'in reason' clause.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0186.html

So much misinformation in this thread.

Assuming a fixed term lease is in place, OP needs to find a replacement tenant and write to the landlord/agent informing them of same. If the landlord/agent disagrees with assignment the the OP can give a notice of termination with the relevant notice.

If its a part four tenancy he can just give the relevant notice.

Marcusm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you wanna hear something even worse: if you're married then you are liable for any debts the other person racks up until a separation order is granted. You don't even need to sign up for the specific debt, the very fact of being married to them does the trick with just their signature.

This is complete and utter rubbish and likely to mislead. Do you not even keep up to date with current affairs such as the Sean Dunne or David Drumm bankruptcy cases? if you did, you'd notice that both continue to have more than acceptable lifestyles by virtue of assets owned byt heir respective spouses (including, in at least one of the cases, assets transferred from the husband prior to bankruptcy). Joint and several liability does not rely on marriage in any way, shape or form.

Nomis21

The same thing happened to me as the OP.

I called the agency and told them I was going to leave in a month and I would be using my deposit that they held to pay the last month's rent.

The agency said I can't do that, but I did it anyway and moved out when I said I would. In the meantime as they didn't push it, I let them show people the apartment so someone could move in when I left and so the landlord lost nothing.

The Spider

No landlord, in dublin at least is going to pursue someone through the courts who can't pay the rent, what happens while they're doing this, the apartment lies idle as you wait for a judgment for the money you're owed? You can't rent it out while the lease is still in force, if you're pursuing someone because technically it's their lease, how can you assign a lease during the same period to another tenant, while a lease is still in force from the previous tenant?

If it's in Leitrim may be a different matter, lack of available tenants and all that, but still even if it goes to court and someone can't pay, they can't pay.

Eldarion

Nomis21 wrote: »

The same thing happened to me as the OP.

I called the agency and told them I was going to leave in a month and I would be using my deposit that they held to pay the last month's rent.

The agency said I can't do that, but I did it anyway and moved out when I said I would. In the meantime as they didn't push it, I let them show people the apartment so someone could move in when I left and so the landlord lost nothing.

All well and good until you try to use them as a reference. Any new potential landlord's very first question will be "Did he try to use the deposit as the last month's rent?" If that answer is yes then you are immediately removed from consideration.

Personally I think it's a good thing that tenants are starting to feel blow back for carrying or attempting to carry out this illegal action. Maybe one day we can reach a place where all parties operate in accordance with the law.

cerastes

Dont know if the OP is reading this but only one person gave the right advice relevant to the OP.
Ask but put it in writing, to sublet/reassign, see the prtb website on such a thing. In it Id explain why you want to reassign, ie cant afford it anymore.
If the landlord/agent refuses, then issue a termination notice with the relevant notice period. If you have a smartphone try out a call recording app, but Id suspect where there is no reply if you asked or they refused to respond in writing would be considered by the PRTB as a no.
Then pay what you can for the remaining rent, stay there for that rent duration period/month, OP said they had enough to cover 2 weeks.
When the agent sends a notice for rent arrears, reply saying you asked to sublet but they refused and that the tenancy is terminated.
The notice they issue will be 14 days to pay rent, after which they can issue a 28 day termination notice. You'll be gone in two weeks, I suggest not screwing anyone over and letting them do viewings for a new tenancy or if you can locate someone but they just dont want to have the place sublet which I think adds hassle, they can relet to them on a new lease, even a short term one, they can then take the remaining balance owed from your deposit and contribute to any outstanding bills.
They will have time to replace OP and not be stuck and the OP can get out of a circumstance they cant afford, the OP can follow up the ex for any balance however likely that is.
No walking away from the contract and any inconvenience along with that and no one screwed over.

shruikan2553

drumswan wrote: »

There is no 'in reason' clause.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2004/en/act/pub/0027/sec0186.html

So much misinformation in this thread.

Assuming a fixed term lease is in place, OP needs to find a replacement tenant and write to the landlord/agent informing them of same. If the landlord/agent disagrees with assignment the the OP can give a notice of termination with the relevant notice.

If its a part four tenancy he can just give the relevant notice.

So I can get my friend on rent allowance and when they refuse him I can just leave?

Grandpa Hassan

shruikan2553 wrote: »

So I can get my friend on rent allowance and when they refuse him I can just leave?

No, it has to be a reasonable proposal. The LL is within his right to deny that. He cannot unreasonably withold consent for assignment, and refusal of an RA tenant I think would be considered reasonable. Find an employed tenant, not on RA, and the LL will not be able to come up with a reasonable reason to say no.

If I were the LL I'd tell you to go find someone else if you suggested an RA tenant

Forget whether or not that is enshrined in the legislation. Consider if you went out and got the local homeless crack addict to take over the lease (an extreme example I know). If the LL said no, do you honestly think that the PRTB would find against him if he refused?

Just use your common sense when finding a replacement to make the process easy

shruikan2553

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

No, it has to be a reasonable proposal. The LL is within his right to deny that. He cannot unreasonably withold consent for assignment, and refusal of an RA tenant I think would be considered reasonable. Find an employed tenant, not on RA, and the LL will not be able to come up with a reasonable reason to say no.

If I were the LL I'd tell you to go find someone else if you suggested an RA tenant

Forget whether or not that is enshrined in the legislation. Consider if you went out and got the local homeless crack addict to take over the lease (an extreme example I know). If the LL said no, do you honestly think that the PRTB would find against him if he refused?

Just use your common sense when finding a replacement to make the process easy

That's what I was thinking and another person said Im misinformed. What you described is exactly the types of situations that I would have thought a LL would be free to refuse, extreme examples but same principle.

Grandpa Hassan

shruikan2553 wrote: »

That's what I was thinking and another person said Im misinformed. What you described is exactly the types of situations that I would have thought a LL would be free to refuse, extreme examples but same principle.

Sometimes people blindly quote legislation and don't use their common sense. Common sense which the PTRB use (which is evident through their rulings).