Advice: new bike, new kit, new...

Velotogo

Hi,

Newbie here, looking for advice. I know, another one !

I bought a Giant Escape 2 hybrid on the Bike-to-work scheme a year ago with the idea of losing a bit of timber and getting fitter and healthier through something low-impact like cycling. My daily commute is a 16km round trip, not Iron Man distances, agreed, but I'm actually enjoying it now and seeing riders pass through Bray on the way to Wicklow over the summer has got me thinking about doing greater distances and buying my first road proper bike.

Having trawled the web over the past couple of weeks, I feel I'm more knowledgeable but still as confused if that makes any sense. Shimano vs Campagnolo vs SRAM; Aluminium vs Carbon; mixed groupsets vs uniform groupsets; gear ratios, wheelsets and tyres. Which is the best for me ?

Initially I thought the Mekk Pinerolo AL 1.5 Tiagra 2013 on Wiggle would be a good starter. Then I started reading about Canyon, Rose, Planet X with their better specs for only €1000.00 and as well as that you could upgrade to a decent wheelset for only €200.00 more. I know already that this is a pursuit that hoovers up cash in componentry and gear very quickly and I'm a believer that buy cheap usually means buy twice but genuinely what gives ?

I guess I'm graduating up to the leisure rider level with the intention of building-up to regular 50/60km rides and maybe a couple of sportives per year. My budget would probably be €1500.00 for the bike, pedals, shoes, etc. but I would push the boat out if there was a long-term cost saving to be made.

So...

Aluminium or carbon
I was thinking aluminium but would carbon be too stiff for me going from a middle-of-the-road hybrid ? What is the real difference between aluminium and carbon in non-techy terms ? Is aluminium first and then carbon the natural progression for more serious cyclists ?

Groupset
I've noticed a lot of bikes come with a SRAM chainset and the rest of the components are Shimano or you get mixed Shimano stuff. Is it better to have all your groupset the same brand and class or does it not matter ? What's the difference between say Tiagra and Ultegra ? Does higher end mech require more maintenance ? What would be a good groupset that wouldn't frustrate if you were to move to intermediate level ?

Gears
What's the difference between a 50/34 and 52/36 on the front and equally on the back 11/28, 11/32 and 12/25. What does that mean ? Also, 9, 10 or 11 cassette - which is better ?

Wheels and tyres
Feel free to educate me. WillyFXP recommended on another thread: 25mm DT Swiss R 23 SPLINE with Continental GP4000 S II and Shimano SPD PDA600 pedals. Is this a good combo and why ?

Kit
I've got a lot of kit for my commuting: Altura Night Vision tights, Altura summer & winter cruiser tights, Altura Progel and Airstream shorts. I've also got an assortment of long sleeve and short sleeve jerseys: Specialized, Pearl Izumi, Louis Garneau, Altura. Also, got High-viz jackets, skullcaps and gloves. I presume this is all fine - even if I won't be winning style awards ? Would bib shorts / tights be recommended for longer rides ? What about arm and leg warmers ? A racing helmet ?

Shoes & pedals
How much is a decent pair of shoes and pedals ? What's the best style of shoe and pedal for a novice. Care to pick out something from any of the websites as a guide ?

Sizing
I'm quite short and will probably fit the smallest frame but is there a quick and easy DIY way to get the right fit ?

Local bike shop or on-line ?
My LBS in Bray, Everest Cycles burnt down in a recent fire but the guys are up-and-running at a temporary premises. Ideally I'd like to shop local but the lure of on-line with the option of more spec for less money is tempting.

If you're still reading, I'd appreciate the insight, opinions and lessons learned by the Boards.ie peloton

Brian?

Bike:

http://planetxireland.com/products-page/bikes/planet-x-pro-carbon-shimano-ultegra-6800-road-bike/

Inquitus

I think this is your best bet for 1500 yoyos

https://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237

and get a compact with an 11/28 if possible, I find the copycat chinese pro kit is pretty good bang for buck, if you aren't racing just get the cheapest long lasting tyres with decent puncture resistance.

And buy online it will save you a fortune, someone linked a nice Carbon Rose for a similar price in some thread, was a good deal too.

Unknown Soldier

Inquitus wrote: »

I think this is your best bet for 1500 yoyos

https://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3237

and get a compact with an 11/28 if possible, I find the copycat chinese pro kit is pretty good bang for buck, if you aren't racing just get the cheapest long lasting tyres with decent puncture resistance.

And buy online it will save you a fortune, someone linked a nice Carbon Rose for a similar price in some thread, was a good deal too.

Dear OP.

As above. Great value and a great bike.

The wheels are worth over 500 alone. Example here

I was in the same position as you this time last year and I too was going for the above but the 2013 model. Then a canyon fan at work pointed me to the 2013 version of the following...

https://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3285

I know you have a budget etc...

I had a bike to work to use and bit the bullet on the Di2 version last year, so it was 1500.

They are great bikes tbh and that Di2 is savage value.

PrismES

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Dear OP.

As above. Great value and a great bike.

The wheels are worth over 500 alone. Example here

I was in the same position as you this time last year and I too was going for the above but the 2013 model. Then a canyon fan at work pointed me to the 2013 version of the following...

https://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/bike.html?b=3285

I know you have a budget etc...

I had a bike to work to use and bit the bullet on the Di2 version last year, so it was 1500.

They are great bikes tbh and that Di2 is savage value.

That does look like some serious value, you have me thinking now.
How do find the Di2? What happens if the battery runs out, can you still shift?

Velotogo

Cheers guys. That Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0 is savage. It also looks like too much bike for me at this stage. I've never ridden a road bike before and it looks very advanced and built for racing, no ? As well as that, I'd be looking at another €350.00 plus for pedals, shoes, helmet and kit.

Is it worth it with the winter approaching ?

Any more suggestions ?

Fian

one suggestion from me - buy a second hand road bike first. I did, spent €350 about 18 months ago on an aluminium tiagra bike. I will be upgrading in the new year but I absolutely made the right decision trying out my first road bike via the second hand route. I have a much better idea of what i want now.

If you are buying new I would strongly suggest you forget the "that might be too much bike for me to start off with stuff. Once you start to enjoy it you will find yourself wanting more. So if you don't buy one that is more than you want now you will prbably be disatisfied with it in 12 months time and looking to buy a new one.

You should think Carbon frame - since you are not interested in racing i suggest a sportive/endurance geometry which is less aggressive but more comfortable over longer spins. Carbon will dampen road buzz and make longer cycles more comfortable as well as being lighter. And tbh if you have an aluminium bike you are just going to want a carbon one.

You should also think Di2 because otherwise you are going to end up wanting to upgrade. that is electronic shifting which operates by a battery operated motor instead of by changing the tension on a cable.

Finally I suggest hydraullic disc brakes. Many here would disagree with that on teh basis that rim brakes are "good enough" but for me it is a no brainer in our wet climate, and hydraullic disc brakes just give me more confidence coming down a hill, which lets me go down faster. I don't have them on my raod bike but my son has them on his hybrid, they are fantastic.

Last thing though - Hydraullic disc brakes are new, so they may be better in a year or two. That is another good reason to grab a cheap sedcond hand road bike first and then get one with all the bells and whistles when you upgrade.

Of course the industry will no doubt come up with a new innovation in a few years to make you want to upgrade again anyway, even if you get those features.

Unknown Soldier

PrismES wrote: »

That does look like some serious value, you have me thinking now.
How do find the Di2? What happens if the battery runs out, can you still shift?

I find it great. But I'm not the best person to ask in comparison to other types of gearing, as I haven't used many bar an old shimano trigger system and SRAM double tap on a hybrid.

I do like the Auto trim thing it does and you can tweak your gears(indexing?) on the fly while cycling.

When the battery starts to run out you lose the front derailleur first and then the rear too. So I'd say you would be riding a Fixie when that happens. Never happened to me and over 2,750KM I've charged it about 6/7 times. Never out of "need".

Velotogo wrote: »

Cheers guys. That Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0 is savage. It also looks like too much bike for me at this stage. I've never ridden a road bike before and it looks very advanced and built for racing, no ? As well as that, I'd be looking at another €350.00 plus for pedals, shoes, helmet and kit.

Is it worth it with the winter approaching ?

Any more suggestions ?

tbh I was practically harassed into buying my bike. Bombarded with reviews galore and accompanying youtube videos.
I was told I'd totally regret not getting a "good" bike and looking back I'm glad I bought what I did. Also i'm "weak"

You are buying an awful lot of health and fitness too, as well as a bike. And having a bike you can't wait to ride goes a long way.

Also 50/34 with 11/28 is a good set of gears.

Happy hunting!

Brian?

Velotogo wrote: »

Cheers guys. That Canyon Ultimate AL 9.0 is savage. It also looks like too much bike for me at this stage. I've never ridden a road bike before and it looks very advanced and built for racing, no ? As well as that, I'd be looking at another €350.00 plus for pedals, shoes, helmet and kit.

Is it worth it with the winter approaching ?

Any more suggestions ?

Is your total budget €1500, including pedals, shoes etc.? Or €1500 for the bike?

Tibulus

I am in a similar position currently and looking to upgrade a my aluminum road bike with 105 drive set.

Was originally looking at the Planet X RT58 but concerned about the after sale service from the shop in Athlone.

Called into my local bike shop last weekend and told him what I was looking for: carbon fibre bike, full ultegra group set and sealed bearing wheels. Apparently all the big brands bring out their 2015 range in the run up to Christmas and sell of the 2014 range at a discount, so he told me that he could get a bike for the same spec as the planet X for the same price but may just take a little time to find.

Russman

Op, I'm going to get totally flamed for saying this, but, seriously, if your intention is 50/60km rides and a few sportives, you have no more need for carbon fibre and Di2 than the man on the moon. No offence to anyone. "Wanting" carbon and Di2 is obviously another thing entirely.

I'm certainly no expert and I'm purely a leisure/casual cyclist, but IMHO something like the Canyon linked earlier or even the Canyon Roadlite with 105 for €1k is more than enough bike for almost anyone. Rose also do similar at the same price points.

Just my tuppenceworth. I don't want to discourage anyone from spending on cycling, but in the nicest possible way, if you'd said your budget was 10k someone would come up with a suggestion for 11k !

quozl

I've done 200km cycles on an aluminium road bike with carbon forks and ten speed mechanical Tiagra.

I love that bike.

You'll be grand at any price point between 700 and 7000 euro!

desertcircus

Carbon frames and Di2 are phenomenal things to have when you're racing competitively, or when you're three days and 400 kilometres into a weeklong cycling holiday, but they really aren't a priority if your cycling is for leisure and weight loss - and a carbon bike with electronic gearing can cost as much as a good secondhand car. An aluminium-frame bike with Sora or Tiagra shifters should come in at under a thousand euro, and if you go secondhand you'll get it far cheaper. I've been on a Sora-equipped aluminium frame for three years, doing plenty of leisure cycling and doing the odd adventure race, and it's been more than enough bike.

A rule of thumb I once heard that I try to stick by: "you don't get to go carbon until you're ahead of every other aluminium frame in the race." Go for a decent road bike, and don't go upgrading things until you've improved as much as you can on the gear you have.

Brian?

desertcircus wrote: »

Carbon frames and Di2 are phenomenal things to have when you're racing competitively, or when you're three days and 400 kilometres into a weeklong cycling holiday, but they really aren't a priority if your cycling is for leisure and weight loss - and a carbon bike with electronic gearing can cost as much as a good secondhand car. An aluminium-frame bike with Sora or Tiagra shifters should come in at under a thousand euro, and if you go secondhand you'll get it far cheaper. I've been on a Sora-equipped aluminium frame for three years, doing plenty of leisure cycling and doing the odd adventure race, and it's been more than enough bike.

A rule of thumb I once heard that I try to stick by: "you don't get to go carbon until you're ahead of every other aluminium frame in the race." Go for a decent road bike, and don't go upgrading things until you've improved as much as you can on the gear you have.

I don't get this line of thinking at all. There's no such thing as having too much bike. You buy the best bike, with the best gruppo you can afford. Simple.

I have 2 mid range carbon bikes, one with Ultegra and one with old Dura Ace new Dura Ace mix. I've no intention of racing, but my bikes are a pleasure to ride and look at.

OP, if you don't buy carbon now go for 2nd hand cheap and cheerful. Because there's no doubt you'll want to upgrade to a nice carbon machine within a year anyway.

magicbastarder

there's a big difference between 'affording' and 'justifying'.
i could afford to buy a phenomenal bike. i could not justify it though.

desertcircus

Brian? wrote: »

I don't get this line of thinking at all. There's no such thing as having too much bike. You buy the best bike, with the best gruppo you can afford. Simple.

I have 2 mid range carbon bikes, one with Ultegra and one with old Dura Ace new Dura Ace mix. I've no intention of racing, but my bikes are a pleasure to ride and look at.

OP, if you don't buy carbon now go for 2nd hand cheap and cheerful. Because there's no doubt you'll want to upgrade to a nice carbon machine within a year anyway.

The price difference between all ALU frame with Tiagra and a carbon frame with Dura Ace is gigantic. You're looking at about three thousand quid in the difference, which is a huge amount of money. If you can afford that without trouble, then lucky you, but the vast majority of people in Ireland are on a budget, and carbon and Dura Ace are miles outside that budget.

Brian?

desertcircus wrote: »

The price difference between all ALU frame with Tiagra and a carbon frame with Dura Ace is gigantic. You're looking at about three thousand quid in the difference, which is a huge amount of money. If you can afford that without trouble, then lucky you, but the vast majority of people in Ireland are on a budget, and carbon and Dura Ace are
miles outside that budget.

You seem to have completely missed my point: get the best bike for your budget, forget about whether it's too much bike or not.

OP, has a budget of €1500. He can afford carbon with 11sp Ultegra or Alu with Di2. He should get one of those without worrying that it's over spec'd for his current goals.

I'd have serious trouble picking between those 2 bikes to be honest. I love carbon and list after Di2.

BTW, 3 grand difference is a bit of an exaggeration. My dura ace mix bike was actually donated by a friend. So I didn't post as a boast, just an example.

Brian?

magicbastarder wrote: »

there's a big difference between 'affording' and 'justifying'.
i could afford to buy a phenomenal bike. i could not justify it though.

You need I work on your justification skills.

desertcircus

Brian? wrote: »

You seem to have completely missed my point: get the best bike for your budget, forget about whether it's too much bike or not.

OP, has a budget of €1500. He can afford carbon with 11sp Ultegra or Alu with Di2. He should get one of those without worrying that it's over spec'd for his current goals.

I'd have serious trouble picking between those 2 bikes to be honest. I love carbon and list after Di2.

BTW, 3 grand difference is a bit of an exaggeration. My dura ace mix bike was actually donated by a friend. So I didn't post as a boast, just an example.

Serious question - where does 1500 get you carbon with Ultegra or alu with Di2?

I've also taken a quick look at the Canyon website - there's an £1,800 difference between carbon with Ultegra and aluminium with 105. Add 200 to get down to Tiagra/Sora territory, and we're at a £2k sterling difference, which comes out at about 2.5k difference in euro. So I was off, but not by much.

Is it worth buying an entry level carbon frame?

magicbastarder

Brian? wrote: »

You need I work on your justification skills.

yeah, i was thinking i haven't really gelled with the ethos of the forum.

Brian?

desertcircus wrote: »

Serious question - where does 1500 get you carbon with Ultegra or alu with Di2?

I've also taken a quick look at the Canyon website - there's an £1,800 difference between carbon with Ultegra and aluminium with 105. Add 200 to get down to Tiagra/Sora territory, and we're at a £2k sterling difference, which comes out at about 2.5k difference in euro. So I was off, but not by much.

The first 2 replies to this thread have the links. A planetx sl pro carbon with 11sp Ultegra and an aluminium canyon with Ultegra Di2.

Brian?

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, i was thinking i haven't really gelled with the ethos of the forum.

It goes much deeper than the ethos of this forum. It's the ethos of cyclists.

magicbastarder

the ethos of male cyclists, or all cyclists?

Brian?

magicbastarder wrote: »

the ethos of male cyclists, or all cyclists?

I see no genders here.

desertcircus

Brian? wrote: »

The first 2 replies to this thread have the links. A planetx sl pro carbon with 11sp Ultegra and an aluminium canyon with Ultegra Di2.

That Planet X is spectacular value, although it is sold out in all sizes at the moment. The Canyon isn't Di2, although there is a link later on to a Di2 alu frame bike for 2k.

To be honest, though, it's very much a personal decision for the OP. I understand the desire to buy the best bike your money can get you, but it's not always feasible or wise for someone to do that.

Unknown Soldier

I may have lost the run of myself. In my defense, I've been ogling Canyon bike porn for about two weeks.

The Canyon AL (non Di2) series is good value for money though.

crosstownk

Velotogo wrote: »

Gears
What's the difference between a 50/34 and 52/36 on the front and equally on the back 11/28, 11/32 and 12/25. What does that mean ? Also, 9, 10 or 11 cassette - which is better ?

I'll add my 2 cents on this one.

Be careful if you plan to climb hills. If you get a 52/36 chain set with a 12/25 cassette then you may find hills tough.

I'd suggest a compact chain set (50/34) and possibly a 11/32 cassette which should get any novice (me included) up most hills.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious here but the numbers refer to the number of teeth on each gear. So a 50/34 has 50 teeth on the big ring and 34 on the small one. Similar with the rear cassette. So if you engage a 34 on the front and a 32 on the rear then you have a ratio of almost 1:1. Essentially, one rotation of the pedals will give you almost one rotation of the rear wheel. This makes for easier climbing. On the highest gear you have 50:11 which gives you a ratio of 4.5:1 meaning that every revolution of the pedals will result in the rear wheel turning 4.5 times. Obviously this requires more effort from the rider.

If you buy a bike with a higher overall gear ratio it may make the effort appear greater and my have a negative impact on your enjoyment but all this depends on how fit and strong you are and how 'up for it' you are.

My advice is that if you are starting out on long distances, especially if you plan on cycling up a few mountains, is to keep the ratio low. You can always change for a different ratio cassette at a later stage.

Like I say, that's my 2 cents - others may disagree. I seldom use my 32 on the rear cassette but I like to know it's there when a hill kicks up - much more satisfying than dismounting

Ireland isn't flat and there's always a hill around the corner with a Strava segment

Velotogo

Thanks guys for all the great insights and info.

Just on bike maintenance, what sort of work do you carry out on your bikes ? Do racing bikes require more servicing ? Are the higher end groupsets in need of more regular fine-tuning ? What basics do I need to learn.

The Ksyrium wheelset is obviously good but how do you tell the difference from good and bad apart from presumably, cost ?

Finally, kit-wise, are bib shorts better on longer rides than normal cycling shorts or does it really matter ?

Brian?

Velotogo wrote: »

Thanks guys for all the great insights and info.

Just on bike maintenance, what sort of work do you carry out on your bikes ? Do racing bikes require more servicing ? Are the higher end groupsets in need of more regular fine-tuning ? What basics do I need to learn.

The Ksyrium wheelset is obviously good but how do you tell the difference from good and bad apart from presumably, cost ?

Finally, kit-wise, are bib shorts better on longer rides than normal cycling shorts or does it really matter ?

I service my own bikes. It's easy when you have the right tools.

Wheel quality is subjective. I've found, the more expensive the wheels the better. I have Mavic cosmics, which are essentially the Kysrium elites with a carbon faring, fantastic wheels. Are they worth the money? I dunno, but I like them.

Bib shorts are better, no doubt.

Brian?

And yeah, get a compact. 50x34, it eases the pain. My climbing setup is a compact with an 11-28 cassette.

Brian?

desertcircus wrote: »

That Planet X is spectacular value, although it is sold out in all sizes at the moment. The Canyon isn't Di2, although there is a link later on to a Di2 alu frame bike for 2k.

To be honest, though, it's very much a personal decision for the OP. I understand the desire to buy the best bike your money can get you, but it's not always feasible or wise for someone to do that.

If it's not feasible them it's not within budget. Get me? I'm not telling anyone to overspend.

pjq

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation, borrowing my Brother's bike for the past year .....

The OP asked about pedals / shoes , any comments?
I was looking at combination pedals ( one side for ordinary commuteing shoes) http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-m324-combination-pedals/ or http://www.wiggle.co.uk/look-keo-easy-pedals/ from a previous post here. How much of the budget to spend on pedals and shoes?
And then the shoes, will I need winter and summer shoes? can they be bought on-line or is it better to try on in a shop?

As I said , I'm in a similar situation, but not identical! I should stay within a budget of €1k , and when I deduct the extra cost of pedals, cleats, shoes, mudguards, lights, etc ,, can anybody recommend the next step down from the bikes already recommended?

How to justify splashing out an a Canyon? can anybody give me an idea of the resale value of a well maintained Canyon Roadlite after say 3 years? I did try looking it up but am not sure I'm comparing like with like.

Thanks in Advance for any advice , this thread sorted me on the question of gears already.
pjq

Brian?

pjq wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in a similar situation, borrowing my Brother's bike for the past year .....

The OP asked about pedals / shoes , any comments?
I was looking at combination pedals ( one side for ordinary commuteing shoes) http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-m324-combination-pedals/ or http://www.wiggle.co.uk/look-keo-easy-pedals/ from a previous post here. How much of the budget to spend on pedals and shoes?
And then the shoes, will I need winter and summer shoes? can they be bought on-line or is it better to try on in a shop?

As I said , I'm in a similar situation, but not identical! I should stay within a budget of €1k , and when I deduct the extra cost of pedals, cleats, shoes, mudguards, lights, etc ,, can anybody recommend the next step down from the bikes already recommended?

How to justify splashing out an a Canyon? can anybody give me an idea of the resale value of a well maintained Canyon Roadlite after say 3 years? I did try looking it up but am not sure I'm comparing like with like.

Thanks in Advance for any advice , this thread sorted me on the question of gears already.
pjq

Be careful buying shoes online. I've ah some bad experiences. I have wide feet though. As for pedals, Look Keo are fine. I like speed play zeros.

Pedals are definitely something I'd buy 2nd hand to start out. I'm selling look Keo classics if you're interested.

Cianmcliam

Here's some things that I kind of knew I'd need but managed to mysteriously squeeze out of my budget plan:
Track pump ~ €40 and up for one that will last
mini pump ~ €25 and up
CO2 inflator ~ €15 and up
CO2 refills ~ €15
Saddle bag ~ €20 and up for a 'no cringe' model
Two spare tubes ~ €10 and up
Bottle cages ~ €15 and up
2 x Camelback insulated bottles ~ €34
Bike computer ~ €30
Slightly better Bike Computer ~ €90
GPS Bike Computer with HRM and Cadence ~ €160 and up
Cycling jerseys ~ €150 for a good one and two cheap/sale ones
Cycling Shorts ~ €80 for one good pair or two ok pairs
Arm Warmers ~ €25
Leg Warmers ~ €25
Helmet ~ €70 and up for 'no cringe' models
Glasses ~ €4 for Lidl/Aldi's
Gloves ~ €5 for Lidl/Aldi
Full Finger Gloves ~ €20
Lubes and cleaning products ~ €30 and up
Lights ~ €30 and up for front and back
Proper Bike Fit ~ €90 and up

My advice, don't max out your budget on the very best bike you can possibly stretch to but which offers no real advantage outside actual competitive events. Just get a bike you would look forward to using.

I bought an aluminium frame with carbon forks and Ultegra shifters and gears. My needs are for fitness and possible sportive events.

Cianmcliam

Cianmcliam wrote: »

My advice, don't max out your budget on the very best bike you can possibly stretch to but which offers no real advantage outside actual competitive events. Just get a bike you would look forward to using.

I bought an aluminium frame with carbon forks and Ultegra shifters and gears. My needs are for fitness and possible sportive events.

+1

For me I'd only consider carbon if I had run out of pounds to shift off myself (still work to do in that department!) and even then I think the benefits for me would be marginal. That said, I think we all know people who are winning races and setting KOMs on old alloy beaters. :pac: