The Celtic Tiger - was it at all real?

fr336

Please excuse my ignorance - I'm a young Brit looking in and just wondering; is the consensus that the Celtic Tiger was an out and out sham based around a property bubble, or were there many other factors even discarding joining the Euro, or are there even many opposing viewpoints on the whole saga in Ireland today? I was stupidly under the impression until recently that it only began when Ireland joined the Euro and hence things came crashing down after a few years of financial mismanagement. Clearly I don't have a clue, so if anyone has the patience I'd be interested on thoughts and opinions? I will be researching further myself as time goes on! Cheers

WilyCoyote

These things go in cycles. So, on your bike laddie!

uch

Yep, I'm broke

Long Gone

It was a pathetic illusion of wealth based on borrowed money - Nothing more, nothing less. When the bubble burst, the liability for the private debt that ensued was criminally handed over to Irish taxpayers. The resultant massive Irish national debt will take many generations to repay. As a country we are not only broke, but up to our necks in debt.

porsche959

1995-1999 was genuine boom

2000-2007 unsustainable bubble.

fr336

porsche959 wrote: »

1995-1999 was genuine boom

2000-2007 unsustainable bubble.

Was this due to inward investment due to the likelehood of the Euro era coming in later on?

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Esel

Very low interest rates; established banks tried to stop bent Anglo Irish bank 'eating their lunch'; almost no regulation; recipe for disaster.

Result: Disaster.

porsche959

fr336 wrote: »

Was this due to inward investment due to the likelehood of the Euro era coming in later on?

In my opinion, this was only one of a number of factors.

Economic reforms, corporation tax regime, and peace process much more significant in my view.

porsche959

jacksie66 wrote: »

Pure greed and corruption at the highest level caused us to fall flat on our arses. It's the reason why myself and so many people had to leave the country to find work because of other people's mistakes.

The problem I have with this analysis is many thousands of ordinary working and middle class people fully bought into the greed.

Also, the electorate voted for Maastricht, much as they like to forget it now.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The 07 5 series looks pretty real. Still a beast of a car, those Bavarians know how to build a car, they last. Like a rich mans Toyota in some ways.

Tail Docker

It was all just a dream. When Ireland woke up the next day, no-one had let the dog out to poo. Sh1t everywhere..

kravmaga

fr336 wrote: »

Please excuse my ignorance - I'm a young Brit looking in and just wondering; is the consensus that the Celtic Tiger was an out and out sham based around a property bubble, or were there many other factors even discarding joining the Euro, or are there even many opposing viewpoints on the whole saga in Ireland today? I was stupidly under the impression until recently that it only began when Ireland joined the Euro and hence things came crashing down after a few years of financial mismanagement. Clearly I don't have a clue, so if anyone has the patience I'd be interested on thoughts and opinions? I will be researching further myself as time goes on! Cheers

I would disagree with your analysis above ,ie Celtic tiger= sham property bubble only. A lot of factors involved.

ROI had already secured massive Foreign direct investment from US Multinationals due to our low corporation tax rates and our young well educated workforce.

Yes the credit flowed from all the banks including the big European banks, yes people bought into the property market.

The Celtic Tiger phase of growth was always temporary.

There was a real boom for 15 years to 2001.

Growth lifted Ireland on to a modern platform.

But seeds of destruction were sown from late 1990's

i.e., deregulation, privatisation, pro-cyclical tax-cutting, tax breaks, eg Section 23.

Long Gone

porsche959 wrote: »

Also, the electorate voted for Maastricht, much as they like to forget it now.

The electorate voted against Lisbon , but they wore forced to vote again until the politicians in this so-called democracy got the answer that they wanted.....

Long Gone

kravmaga wrote: »

I would disagree with your analysis above ,ie Celtic tiger= sham property bubble only. A lot of factors involved.

ROI had already secured massive Foreign direct investment from US Multinationals due to our low corporation tax rates and our young well educated workforce.

Yes the credit flowed from all the banks including the big European banks, yes people bought into the property market.

The Celtic Tiger phase of growth was always temporary.

There was a real boom for 15 years to 2001.

Growth lifted Ireland on to a modern platform.

But seeds of destruction were sown from late 1990's

i.e., deregulation, privatisation, pro-cyclical tax-cutting, tax breaks, eg Section 23.

You forgot to mention completely uncontrolled mass immigration playing a huge role in the creation of the property bubble - Who do you think all the new houses were being built for ?

Sky King

Lets not forget benchmarking.

Of course, you can only benchmark up, never back down again :rolleyes:

Long Gone

kravmaga wrote: »

There was a real boom for 15 years to 2001.

That would have the boom starting in 1986. I left university in 1989 and believe me the boom started many years later than that....

Hermy

porsche959 wrote: »

The problem I have with this analysis is many thousands of ordinary working and middle class people fully bought into the greed.

But that's where well paid senior bank officials, regulators and financial advisers who knew better were supposed to step in and protect the many thousands of ordinary working and middle class people from the bubble they were helping to inflate.

There were a few who tried to warn us but they were told to commit suicide!

deco nate

kravmaga wrote: »

I would disagree with your analysis above ,ie Celtic tiger= sham property bubble only. A lot of factors involved.

ROI had already secured massive Foreign direct investment from US Multinationals due to our low corporation tax rates and our young well educated workforce.
The
Yes the credit flowed from all the banks including the big European banks, yes people bought into the property market.

The Celtic Tiger phase of growth was always temporary.

There was a real boom for 15 years to 2001.

Growth lifted Ireland on to a modern platform.

But seeds of destruction were sown from late 1990's

i.e., deregulation, privatisation, pro-cyclical tax-cutting, tax breaks, eg Section 23.

What disco biscuits were you on? A 15 year boom!? Thanks for the laughs. Crazy post?!

deco nate

Sky King wrote: »

Lets not forget benchmarking.

Of course, you can only benchmark up, never back down again :rolleyes:

Yea, for a business premises! An sure Ireland is a great land if you are a big business, but at least they bring in some jobs.

Frank Lee Midere

deco nate wrote: »

Yea, for a business premises! An sure Ireland is a great land if you are a big business, but at least they bring in some jobs.

Are you confusing rent with benchmarking?

wiseoldelf34

does anyone thine think this rescession was worse than the last one?

Ray Palmer

It was certainly not all credit based. Lots of businesses were making money and paying staff very well. I was earning very good money in businesses that had nothing to do with property.
The rise and fall is a lot more complicated than people like to think and blaming the banks and property is like saying Northern Ireland is all about religion.

Mint Aero

Should the politicians and bankers face trial for treason? I would like to see a lot of the FF members in the docks facing life for what they did.

Who knows, maybe in time we'll have an EU Part II and those involved in orchestrating this mess, particularly the Germans will all face justice.