Traders:Millions by the minute BBC2 Mon Night

ixus

Monday at 9pm. Two 2 minute clips on the bbc website for a taste. It's a two part documentary.

Might be interesting.

ixus

Bump as a reminder.

Bateman

Looks like it should be worth a watch

chooey

Definitely want to watch this

Bateman

A few observations: it was enjoyable and certainly drove home the message of how it's anything but an easy game to make money out of. The lads in London look like chancers to be honest, failed traders taking money off gullible punters?

The scene in Chicago and NYC was much better, some Panerai watches and Louboutin shoes on show

The HFT dude from IMC was a bit insecure, rebuffing allegations that weren't actually thrown at him by the programme. There was no real tough questions asked of him, so he obviously viewed his slot as an opportunity to redress the balance of the idea people might have in their heads after reading Michael Lewis' book. I deal with IMC in a work capacity, didn't think they were that big an outfit.

The second part should be interesting, all the home traders, probably following set rules or "black box" packages and skimming small amounts of profit at a time.

The case you might make after watching some of this stuff (and after reading a recent article I saw in Wired magazine by a trader - turned - neuro-scientist about the hormone balances of traders) is that maybe lads in their twenties don't make the best traders but on the flip side, in a lot of cases people who are slightly older simply don't want the pressure/hours that comes with it. So the best will continue to make money while the weakest will be weeded out (or "chewed up and spat out").

fat_sam

was ok but some serious crap spouted

lady who runs a hedge fund claims you feel worse when you loose other peoples money , yeah right

banks - financial houses have used a throw sh1t at the wall attitude to other peoples money for decades when it comes to investments , they hope something sticks and sure if it doesnt , they get their commision anyway

ixus

Bateman wrote: »

A few observations: it was enjoyable and certainly drove home the message of how it's anything but an easy game to make money out of. The lads in London look like chancers to be honest, failed traders taking money off gullible punters?....

I don't really know a lot about that company but "I think" what happens is that people pay for the education. If they're good enough on the Simulator, they make it live. I "think" the fee they is then used as their downside i.e. once they blow that, they're gone. If they make it, they stay on. That's probably why you saw the guy going out on his own. Surprised someone convicted of financial fraud was allowed to trade though.

From the course they were running, it was interesting to see the different characters. The young lad who freezes and won't trade. Then won't take his loser when put in a trade. Then, the guy who is cool as you like and trades everything until live and freezes up. I've seen both scenarios often.

The "millions by the minute" is a bit misleading when the experienced guys were making relatively small amounts (in terms of millions!).

There was nothing insightful for me but for someone interested in things I think the message that should get across is:

It's a very tough business to work in. Can be highly stressful, something that consumes you, with a steep learning curve and no leeway.

Swampy

It looks awesome and addictive. And for that reason I could never become a home trader.

Bateman

ixus wrote: »

It's a very tough business to work in. Can be highly stressful, something that consumes you, with a steep learning curve and no leeway.

Yeah would agree with that. Apart from the glimpse of Panerai and Louboutin it certainly didn't "glamourise" it too much - although I wouldn't mind your woman's pad on Park Avenue.

Important to realise that to learn properly, you'd want to be up early in the morning, 5:30 am - and you still might not cut it.

ulinbac

The one thing that was worrying especially with the guy Ade was that after 4 months he still had no stop losses in.

Nothing about the very small amount of day traders that make money or the extremely large positions they take to make that amount.

Nor did they include things like stamp duty and commissions that had to be paid.

The Day guys seemed all t be chartists which can be such a dodgy way to trade.

That said, it was easy to watch tv and have the second one on series link

ixus

Stop losses are a waste of time & money in most markets. There is so much noise in volatile markets like the euro, dax, gold, oil etc. that your stop can easily be triggered.

Most people use stops because they have no self control. Generally, it's better to train without them to develop that self control. Sure, if you're going to be away from your desk (or trade) you put them in otherwise, manage it yourself.

The next part appears to be about Traders from home. Maybe that will cover what you're interested in seeing.

lucky john

I thought it made very good viewing and part two should be even better. The fact the two of the long time traders we're moving on was interesting. Its heading in the direction of traders v algorithms and there can be only one winner there. I would think the focus for day traders should be on longer term trades where human intuition has some chance against a supper fast computer.

While its something that sparks my interest I don't think I'd have the stomach for it. I suspect there's a lot more guy's that go broke than make a million but I admire their self believe.

ulinbac

When is part 2 on?

Bateman

Same time next week

P_Cash

Just watched it, I feel for anyone addicted and trading from home. You can be guaranteed no life, and depression could set in.

I liked the emphasis on
Risk
Over trading
Money mgt
Focus on a few and learn them well

I wonder how you're man is doing after setting up the 4 screens
I never knew you could do courses like that, what i would give to live in London to try it all.
No mention though of a strategy, whos strategy, or was there even a strategy lol

Oh, the HFTs in Holland looked like I dunno, clueless, ball watching/adjusting to machines. Not as nice looking

jmcphers81

Hi, I'm new to trading and would love to have seen this. Is there a link that I could see it. I missed this. Thanks

Bateman

It's probably on the bbc iPlayer but you'll need to download something like Hola! Unblocker first and set your IP to the UK before you can watch stuff on the iPlayer.

Bateman

Here it is on the iPlayer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04j525k

merryberry

Missed it too but just search u tube

arrowloopboy

ixus wrote: »

Stop losses are a waste of time & money in most markets. There is so much noise in volatile markets like the euro, dax, gold, oil etc. that your stop can easily be triggered.

Most people use stops because they have no self control. Generally, it's better to train without them to develop that self control. Sure, if you're going to be away from your desk (or trade) you put them in otherwise, manage it yourself.

The next part appears to be about Traders from home. Maybe that will cover what you're interested in seeing.

That's rubbish Ixus , remember , every on here are not full time traders , I run 2 businesses. , I don't have the time or inclination to watch a screen all day , that said , I have live prices on my phone and indices/ fx trades are only a tiny part of my overall stratagey , anyone starting out should be encouraged to use a s/l , that way at least they'll know their maximum loss in € or % of their account . Also Ixus , do you see a sell off this evening in the ftse prior to voteing ?

merryberry

merryberry wrote: »

Missed it too but just search u tube

Also part 1 will b repeated at 12.20am this Friday on bbc 2

ixus

arrowloopboy wrote: »

That's rubbish Ixus , remember , every on here are not full time traders , I run 2 businesses. , I don't have the time or inclination to watch a screen all day , that said , I have live prices on my phone and indices/ fx trades are only a tiny part of my overall stratagey , anyone starting out should be encouraged to use a s/l , that way at least they'll know their maximum loss in € or % of their account . Also Ixus , do you see a sell off this evening in the ftse prior to voteing ?

It was in reference to a guy training for full time trading. And I did say:

Sure, if you're going to be away from your desk (or trade) you put them in otherwise, manage it yourself.

RE FTSE: It has been weak all day. Sitting on lows at the moment. In the futures, between now and the 9pm close, the ftse will be led by FOMC and S&P movements. From what I can tell, results are estimated for 7am though it's difficult to tell due to the high (+90%) expected turn out. Counting could take a long time and there are no exit polls. Results will be known by region/area/county though.

Polls are getting tighter by the hour with a 10% "don't know". I'd expect the "don't know" camp to be of the cautious kind and opt to stay in UK.

arrowloopboy

ixus wrote: »

It was in reference to a guy training for full time trading. And I did say:



RE FTSE: It has been weak all day. Sitting on lows at the moment. In the futures, between now and the 9pm close, the ftse will be led by FOMC and S&P movements. From what I can tell, results are estimated for 7am though it's difficult to tell due to the high (+90%) expected turn out. Counting could take a long time and there are no exit polls. Results will be known by region/area/county though.

Polls are getting tighter by the hour with a 10% "don't know". I'd expect the "don't know" camp to be of the cautious kind and opt to stay in UK.

Paddy power has a no at 1/5 and yes at 3.5/1 , been watching a lot of the debates , the scare mongering is going to work I think ,the ftse should bounce on that .

Bateman

Not sure the scare mongering is going to “work”, the Tories et al have made a total hash of this and the result is going to be even closer (but still No) than if they hadn’t sent such reprehensible people out to bat for the Union.

P_Cash

merryberry wrote: »

Also part 1 will b repeated at 12.20am this Friday on bbc 2

Sorry guys, i just noticed this poster is incorrect, it was repeated thursday nite at 12.20

euroboom13

My guess with this promotional TV program ,the computers are running out of idiot s(poor day traders), to feed off! thinking you are the smart one moving on candles, is like the fresh donkey chasing the carrot!

Sorry a don't dabble but a can't see any honesty in it! (it would be too easy to fool your buy signs and jangle you upside down)... good luck with it thou!

Speculate, go long ,don't chase top AND bottom, you will only reach one of them fast!

merryberry

P_Cash wrote: »

Sorry guys, i just noticed this poster is incorrect, it was repeated thursday nite at 12.20

I get in when the action is over...just like my trades. Sorry folks got this wrong.

eeepaulo

merryberry wrote: »

I get in when the action is over...just like my trades. Sorry folks got this wrong.

I think you did get it right, it just looks odd - 12:20 am on friday.

Thursday night at 12:20 looks right

Bateman

Deary me, where to start.

The FSA will surely be interested in having a chat with the chuckle brothers from Birmingham (trader187 on instagram).

As for Rene, just grow a pair and stick it on Google my son. Poor lad was playing poker with monopoly money by the end.

ixus

Felt there was something deeper going on with Rene. Seven years at it and getting progressively worse. He needs to cut the trade and do something else.

That lady hasn't a clue and is in danger of blowing out or worse. Closed laptop when trade went offside. ...

The porsche guy clearly has OCD which is helping him. Making 1K and being done for the day though? Then Talking about managing £50 million pounds? An interesting character.

best_worst

ixus wrote: »

Felt there was something deeper going on with Rene. Seven years at it and getting progressively worse. He needs to cut the trade and do something else.

That lady hasn't a clue and is in danger of blowing out or worse. Closed laptop when trade went offside. ...

The porsche guy clearly has OCD which is helping him. Making 1K and being done for the day though? Then Talking about managing £50 million pounds? An interesting character.

only one proper operator ( the iron man enthusiast )

two young lads who appeared to have contacts with footballers struck me as being more ego than anything else

cat lady hasnt a breeze but at least she appears to be playing with relatively small amounts and she does have a job as a nurse

guy with disability is the biggest risk as the old folks are simply blowing their money on stocks instead of golfing trips

lucky john

As a character study alone the programme was interesting. I liked the older guys. What's the point of been a long term investor whan your in your seventies. They were having a bit of fun and it was a social thing for them.

Cat woman was just a bored housewife duering the week. A broke one by now but her £6000 could have gone on shoes or something else so at leas she got a little thrill for her money. Up over a million on the fantasy trades but broke on real money. The human psychology is interesting.

The footballer stalkers, well how much does it cost to hire a fancy car for a day? No ambitious trade needing capital to get going would waste it on a car like that. If I was a perspective investor in them I would be worried where exactly my money would end up.

Mr ribbed with the salivating girlfriend. Hard to know about him. He's an egotist but driven for sure. There was more about his body fat than trades. Everything had to be perfect for him so how would he behave when thing go wrong. He's a control freek and the markets aren't easy to control so trading wouldn't seem to be his ideal job. Maybe he can take the emotional out of it and trade like Mr Spock would. Still he was the only one you would expect to make a go of this.

Creeby

It amazes me how easily the two lads from Birmingham raise capital.

Says he has around 1 million AUM.

Arrives at the footballers house in casual clothes, opens up a laptop with an unaudited, paper trading account showing the "good" trades he made saying that "risk only 3%, profit unlimited".

A Junior Cert Maths student could put a stop loss at 3% of their capital and call it "risk mangement"

He couldn't even explain his strategy in plain english?

The mind boggles..

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Creeby wrote: »

It amazes me how easily the two lads from Birmingham raise capital.

Says he has around 1 million AUM.

do you believe them? what put me off them straight away is saying they wanted to be trillionaries. picking arbitary numbers in general raises alarms for me. it's like saying i want to bench 100kg by next week, it's not going to make it easier saying it, you just do your workout every week and let the rest take care of itself.

Creeby

georgiecasey wrote: »

do you believe them? what put me off them straight away is saying they wanted to be trillionaries. picking arbitary numbers in general raises alarms for me. it's like saying i want to bench 100kg by next week, it's not going to make it easier saying it, you just do your workout every week and let the rest take care of itself.

Wouldn't be surprised to be honest.

A quick look on their instagram, before I nearly got sick looking at it, showed me that there were a lot of people commenting wanting to invest with him, the "Institutional Hedge Fund Trader".

Everything about them raises alarm bells with me.

I can't really believe it but at least it gives me hope for my own future..