Starting teaching in Ireland at 40 years old

Stingerbar

Friend is thinking of taking up teaching.. possibly primary school, or special needs (young age, small classes)

She's close to 40, has a masters in an unrelated field, but has only done some very minor part-time temping work in past few years due to personal and family reasons

Apparently to get going in the teaching sector, she'd need to pass an Irish test, and do a teaching course for approx 2 years

The main issue is that due to the masters qualification, she is led to believe that she wouldn't be eligible for any grants or social welfare during this 2 year teaching period

1. Is there any possibility she could be eligible for a grant/social welfare during the 2 year course? if not, what opportunities might there be for income?

2. What other options might she have in teaching (kids) that offers a good potential career

3. Is Ireland overloaded with teachers at the moment? (i.e. is this a potentially bad career choice)

She sees teaching as a good choice since it offers the flexibility for her personal situation that a full time full-on job might not. Thanks.

mirrorwall14

There a multiple threads with more info but

1. I don't think so but I'm not experienced in this area. Asfaik grant aid etc only applies while climbing the scale in university e.g. Degree, then masters etc but she already has an equivalent qualification

2.child care? Nursing maybe. Individual tuition e.g. Music instrumental lessons.

3. Totally oversubscribed. It is extremely difficult for teachers to get employment even after years of experience. Someone at primary can give you more info but from what I've read on here it's just as bad as at secondary school. Scan down the threads in the forum to see the teachers posting for advice re interviews, disillusionment, inability to get work etc

solerina

Stingerbar wrote: »

She sees teaching as a good choice since it offers the flexibility for her personal situation that a full time full-on job might not. Thanks.

I don't know about the social welfare situation but teaching is a full time full on job .....she needs to know this before taking on any expensive training !!

dwiseman

The 2 year course she would be undertaking is likely to be the Hibernia PME. While the course runs over two years it is primarily online tutorials with workshops every second Saturday. Teaching practice is a total of 24 weeks over the 2 year period coupled with 2 2 week stays in the gaeltacht so it might be possible for her to hold down a job for some of the course.

More details of the work experience periods etc can be found here:

http://hiberniacollege.com/courses/professional-master-of-education-pme-in-primary-education/#Calendar

seavill

Your last line is a litte worrying op. It comes across as sure it's a part time job really so be grand to allow me do c,y,z.
As someone said teaching is a full time job. I got home at 6 yesterday and had 2 hours prep to do for this morning.
Teaching is some thing in my eyes that you will only enjoy If it's something you really really want to do. Something to pass the time it certainly is not

mockingjay

"She sees teaching as a good choice since it offers the flexibility for her personal situation that a full time full-on job might not. Thanks."

If this is her belief she needs to do further research. Part-time hours are not issued as 'two days a week'! 11 hours can be and often are timetabled over 5 days between 8.50 and 4pm. We don't have the luxury of stipulating our hours. Yes you can be sitting in the staff room from 11.15 - 1.45 but if she's not available she won't get the subbing! Subbing is usually given to the first available person, and if you turn it down you risk the chance of not been called again.

I think any teacher she will talk to will inform her it is not an 8.50 - 2.30 /4.00 and out the door! Meetings with staff, parents, detention cover, after school Croke Park hours, marking 30 copies + 5 days per week all eat into this time, as a result you tend to stay until 5 pm plus most days. That isn't even including extra-curricular such as sport that most schools require these days. There are hundreds looking for work and schools are seeking people that can add to the environment, she must bring something to the table - and rushing home and picking her days would be frowned upon. Teaching is hectic, and pressurised so you need to be in a good place to begin. Yes the holidays are great, but generally you're marking 200+ mid term tests, Christmas tests, Mocks in February so it eats into these holidays. Summer sees planning of nine classes per day x by 9 periods, you need to know what you are doing every moment, every day, every month - you can be inspected at any time and must have your plans! And no, you can't use them year to year, the curriculum changes, class groups change, subjects change, you must be ready! Cushy it's not.

mirrorwall14

And the other key thing that is becoming more and more relevant is the completely rigid structure of the year. Yes you have good holidays but absolutely no flexibility with when they can be that is a mixed blessing. Docs visits, consultants, weddings, events, sick child etc are just not coverable nowadays.

Afroshack

By the sounds of it, she wants to be a teacher so she can have a solid job with weekends and holidays off and finish every day at 3. If her main reason for becoming a teacher is the flexibility, she's going to have a very, very sharp wake-up call.

Also, what makes her assume teaching isn't a full-time job? I'm a teacher and I average 55 hours per week and get paid for 25.

mirrorwall14

OP just to clarify, we don't want to jump down your throat. However there is a great deal of misconception about teaching out there.

It is often viewed as a part time job. It isn't. Holidays are good but man you make up for it during the school term.
It is often viewed as a soft job. It isn't. Increasing paperwork, planning, parents, students, mental health issues etc make it a very tough gig. And unlike what many posters may believe, the same lesson plans do not work year on year. The ability of the class, their personalities, home situations make every group different. Yes some things may be reused but most cannot.
It is often viewed as a permanent job. It isn't. Even during the boom it took an average of 7 years to get a permanent job in teaching. Nowadays they are as scarce as hens teeth. At a rough calculation on my staff, 50% or so are on part time, non permanent contracts.
It is often seen as easy to get into and secure. It isn't. See previous point on security. It is now an expensive 2 year course (around 12k) with little prospect of work
It is often seen as extremely well paid. It could be, if you could get a job. However most graduates start on minimal contracts or day to day cover. For example there were jobs advertised this summer at 4/22hrs. That starting salary looks pretty rubbish at that. Lots of Primary teachers are on social welfare as they are only getting a day or two a week. Scroll down the forum for a recent thread about this.


Ultimately if you love to teach and you really want to be in this job then it can work out well. However you have to be committed, dedicated and very aware of the potential costs and pitfalls involved

byhookorbycrook

I think she needs to consider if she can afford to live on an odd day's subbing here and there. She needs to be able to travel at a minute's notice for work. She also needs to do some voluntary work in primary school, as her view seems to be coloured by the media campaign against teachers.

Stingerbar

solerina wrote: »

I don't know about the social welfare situation but teaching is a full time full on job .....she needs to know this before taking on any expensive training !!

Thanks - I was just referring to the long holiday periods and that certain teaching jobs may be less or flexible hours in the day, e.g. special needs

Afroshack

Stingerbar wrote: »

Thanks - I was just referring to the long holiday periods and that certain teaching jobs may be less or flexible hours in the day, e.g. special needs

Special needs co-ordinators are still expected to be in school every day during school hours. I'd imagine that they actually have much more work than an average school teacher as so many kids with additional needs are sent to mainstream schools with large class sizes and few resources or SNAs, plus needs vary in every child and you have to help create plans for all of them and meet all their needs throughout the year. It's a pretty demanding sector of education to be fair, and if she's going into teaching for the flexibility, well then she's really not suited to teaching at all. (sorry if this sounds blunt, but she does seem very misguided)

evolving_doors

Stingerbar wrote: »

Thanks - I was just referring to the long holiday periods and that certain teaching jobs may be less or flexible hours in the day, e.g. special needs

What does she mean by 'special needs'... as in.. teaching in a special school?

Aineoil

Stingerbar wrote: »

she'd need to pass an Irish test

What level of Irish does your friend have?

Stingerbar

Minimal Irish but can be brushed up

I am not up on this so doing some very basic early research - she's a natural teacher, gifted, just encouraging her to go that route

Have taught abroad myself TEFL, obviously back here it appears to be quite different

thanks for all the feedback and advice

mirrorwall14

I'm not sure what you mean about special needs being more flexible? If she is aiming to be in a school setting, primary or secondary then it is a full time job with no useable time off at all during term time. And there will be preparation to do at home or at school after "teaching" hours.

Redser87

From my own experiences both of TEFL abroad and primary teaching here, it really is apples and oranges. Unless she is subbing on and off (and therefore has no steady income), she will have all of the extras that go with having a fixed-term job: long-term and short-term planning, IEPs for children with special needs, assessment, Haddington Road hours - as well as what was already mentioned above, extra-curricular activities, extra meetings with parents as the need arises, correcting work, etc. As well as that, as a newly qualified teacher she would have to do her Dip, which takes up the better part of a year and is a significant project in terms of paperwork alone, never mind the layout of the classroom etc - and she would have to do her Induction courses within her first three years out.
Teaching Practice during the GDE is no joke either. Most people spend at least 7 hours after school planning, writing reflections on the day (a requirement!), and making resources, writing assessment notes, etc. Depending on which course she would do, she could have a long stint of that.
I wouldn't let the "long holiday periods" be the deciding factor either. As an NQT she would spend the vast majority of her summer applying for jobs (on top of perhaps working in a summer camp to gain experience and get paid), and that could last for a couple of summers. And even longer-serving people do courses over the summer to qualify for course days, and many would spend a good part of August preparing their notes, classrooms etc - especially in the first few years, if she had Second in her first year and Infants in her second, a significant amount of time would need to be spent on planning, familiarising herself with the curriculum for the class, and so on.
It is a very rewarding field of work, but it certainly is not a cushy number, and before committing to an expensive two-year course she would need to be very aware of that.

Redser87

Can't edit my post for some reason - just to add that the Dip requirements may have changed with the new PME, but I'm not sure on that.
This is the list of qualifications that are accepted by St Pat's for the Irish requirement:

A Pass in a University First Arts Examination in Irish, English or Mathematics will be accepted in lieu of the Leaving Certificate Examination / GCE / GC(S)E requirement for the relevant subject.

In the case of Irish, a Grade C in the Matriculation Examination (which existed up to 1992) will also be accepted in lieu of the Leaving Certificate Examination / GCE / GC(S)E requirement. In addition, the following are accepted as satisfying the Leaving Certificate Examination / GCE / GC(S)E requirement.

Dioplóma sa Ghaeilge , NUI Maynooth
Teastas Eorpach na Ghaeilge (TEG) at Level B2, NUI Maynooth
Diploma in Arts (Applied Irish ), University College Cork
Dioplóma sa Ghaeilge Fheidhmeach,UCD
Dioplóma sa Ghaeilge, Level C1, NUIG
Dioplóma sa Ghaeilge (An Ghaeilge sa Saol Comhaimseartha), University of Limerick
Diploma in Irish at the University of Ulster

RealJohn

Sounds to me like your 'friend' has a very bad attitude and will get a rude awakening if she ever ends up teaching. I'd advise against it.

Like others have said, it is very much a 'full-on job' and if she has "minimal Irish" then there's a lot more than brushing up required for primary teaching.

I'd say you should tell your 'friend' to give it a miss. Plenty of dedicated teachers looking for jobs as it is without adding people who think a half-arsed effort will get them a cushy job.

evolving_doors

plus new pension changes, based on career average now so starting permanent at 45 would give you 20 odd years as opposed to whatever the usual is {33?}...

so really ....if someone has no family/financial commitments to speak of, then ya go for it.