Dead rat

Supernintento Chalmers

There's a dead rat lying on the grass at the side of the road outside.
It doesn't appear to have a mark on it, it's been there about 24 hours now.
There are a good few cats about but they have been ignoring it.
Is this normal, for it to be left untouched like this?

Genghis Cant

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

There's a dead rat lying on the grass at the side of the road outside.
It doesn't appear to have a mark on it, it's been there about 24 hours now.
There are a good few cats about but they have been ignoring it.
Is this normal, for it to be left untouched like this?

Yeah it's normal.

If I were you I'd remove it with a shovel and dispose of it in case it has been poisoned.

Supernintento Chalmers

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Yeah it's normal.

If I were you I'd remove it with a shovel and dispose of it in case it has been poisoned.

Thanks, I was surprised the cats didn't go to town on it.

Nody

Supernintento Chalmers wrote: »

Thanks, I was surprised the cats didn't go to town on it.

Cats prefer to eat warm (i.e. body temperature) prey; they don't go wild on carcasses.

Genghis Cant

Nody wrote: »

Cats prefer to eat warm (i.e. body temperature) prey; they don't go wild on carcasses.

I don't know much about cats, but I'd be confident that a cat wouldn't eat a warm rat either.
A dog certainly wouldn't. It's all about the kill. When it's dead the games over.

To clarify it wasn't cats being poisoned I'd be worried about. Something like a buzzard could pick up a carcass.

anniehoo

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I don't know much about cats, but I'd be confident that a cat wouldn't eat a warm rat either.

Ye haven't met my cat so :eek:

DBB

anniehoo wrote: »

Ye haven't met my cat so :eek:

Lol, and ewwww
As a matter of interest anniehoo, does he only munch on rats that he has killed himself?
I'd think it'd be extremely unusual for a cat to eat a freshly dead rat that he had just happened to come across? I know some dogs would contemplate it alright, but would a cat?
In any case op, definitely dispose of the body in case it has been poisoned, it could be picked up by a dog, anniehoo's cat (:p), a fox or a buzzard, the latter two would certainly be attracted to carrion.

anniehoo

I have never seen a hunter like Eddie. The very first thing he brought back was a rat in the middle of the night. I woke to hear him munching on something and turned on the light to see him literally eating the head.:eek: It was HUGE!! I've no idea if he caught it himself but the things he brings back half alive for fun are normally mice or shrews so I know he's caught them himself for definite. He eats about half of what he brings back, if I don't get it off him first.

I should have shares in Drontal at this stage. Do you remember the tapeworm issue I mentioned a few months back?

Nody

DBB wrote: »

Lol, and ewwww
As a matter of interest anniehoo, does he only munch on rats that he has killed himself?
I'd think it'd be extremely unusual for a cat to eat a freshly dead rat that he had just happened to come across? I know some dogs would contemplate it alright, but would a cat?
In any case op, definitely dispose of the body in case it has been poisoned, it could be picked up by a dog, anniehoo's cat (:p), a fox or a buzzard, the latter two would certainly be attracted to carrion.

Frankenprey diet would go along those lines but usually with smaller prey than a full grown rat and in a more trained environment.

Lawliet

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I don't know much about cats, but I'd be confident that a cat wouldn't eat a warm rat either.
A dog certainly wouldn't. It's all about the kill. When it's dead the games over.

A well fed house cat probably wouldn't bother eating their kills, but an outdoor cat will eat most things they kill.
In my experience though they're not big fans of eating rats. I always find dead rats in one piece, unlike all the other small creatures they kill...

anniehoo

Lawliet wrote: »

A well fed house cat probably wouldn't bother eating their kills, .

Again I disagree. My 2 cats get both wet and dry, with free reign access to their dry food when they want it (both tend to graze) so there's no underfeeding going on in my house.

boomerang

Cats are surprisingly reluctant to eat the rats they kill. I read that in a book by Roger Tabor. It may have to do with the rat's omnivorous diet.

boomerang

Actually I am really happy neither of my boys have brought home a rat yet... There'd be no kissy-kissies for a LONG time after that!

Pumpkinseeds

anniehoo wrote: »

Again I disagree. My 2 cats get both wet and dry, with free reign access to their dry food when they want it (both tend to graze) so there's no underfeeding going on in my house.

I'd agree with you. Jazzy was a feral kitten when he first arrived, our 4 are well fed and can graze on kibble, but every once in a while he'll catch and eat a starling. There might be a leg or a wing left, but not much more. The others don't really bother, but they went through a phase a month ago of bringing in mice almost every day. There was a small digger turning a garden down the street that must've disturbed a nest of mice so it was a bit of a nightmare.

Lawliet

anniehoo wrote: »

Again I disagree. My 2 cats get both wet and dry, with free reign access to their dry food when they want it (both tend to graze) so there's no underfeeding going on in my house.

I'm not accusing you of underfeeding your cats. For cats hunting and playing with prey is instinct, but killing and eating is learned behaviour. Outdoor cats are far more likely to get the opportunity to learn this behaviour. And when you think about it, for cats that have been fed by humans their entire lives, it might not even occur to them to eat rodents and birds, its a big leap in logic for them to make when they associate food with the processed stuff we feed them.

boomerang

It's an interesting view Lawliet. Have you any links/references to back it up? I would have thought killing is the last part of the hunting sequence, so I would have thought it was innate.

Kittens that have been reared outdoors - and who aren't separated from mum for rehoming - tend to be the best mousers, because they have time to learn from mum, and she has the opportunity to hunt and bring them prey.

Lawliet

boomerang wrote: »

It's an interesting view Lawliet. Have you any links/references to back it up? I would have thought killing is the last part of the hunting sequence, so I would have thought it was innate.

I can't access the academic articles right now, I'm going off animal behaviour lectures. I don't remember the studies exactly but the gist was that kittens will practise hunting and catching as part of play even if they've never witnessed it, but the mother cat has to demonstrate the eating behaviour before the kittens will copy. Some of stuff they do to kill is innate (like that funny kicking feet thing) but they don't seem to be trying to kill the prey, its more a side effect.
Some think that when cats present dead animals to humans they're trying to teach us how to kill, 'cause they think we're just big stupid cats.

DBB

I wouldn't think that killing and eating are "learned" in the strictest sense of word. Fine-honed in the latter stages thanks to operant conditioning perhaps, but not originally acquired by learning.

Cats, indeed all predators are born with a genetically pre-determined fixed motor pattern when it comes to finding, stalking, chasing, catching, incapacitating, killing and eating prey.

The sequence starts at the start as a youngster, with seeing and orientating towards the "prey", followed some days later by stalking, followed some days later by chasing, followed some days later by catching... you get the idea.

But the appearance of each element relies on the youngster having practised the element that came before: if they haven't for some reason practised e.g. chasing, then it's really unlikely they'll ever even attempt to try catching. If they don't practise catching, they won't proceed onto incapacitating... again, you get the idea.
In other words, if they don't practise one element of the sequence, the gene for the next bit doesn't get switched on. But one part of the sequence begets the next, and to the best of my knowledge, youngsters don't need to watch their mum to learn how to do it... as long as they're given the opportunity to do it, it'd happen anyway whether mum is there or not.
That said, I'm sure mum can put her youngsters into situations to help them improve their skills once they have started to use them, but the point remains that they don't *need* mum in order to develop any part of the food-acquisition sequence.

A youngster might be stopped from practising a certain part of the sequence by not getting the opportunity to, perhaps deliberately. In flock-guarding dog breeds, for example, the very moment that any stalking behaviour is noted by the shepherd directed at the sheep, the pup is removed immediately from the flock for a few days, so that it never gets to practise this part of the hunting sequence (towards sheep at least), and so never develops on to the next stages of the sequence, and thus never exhibits hunting behaviours towards sheep.
It's all perhaps a little more predictable in different dog breeds as they've been selected to show some elements of the sequence more strongly than others anyway, depending on the function of the breed, with some elements of the sequence completely snipped out due to selective breeding... but I'm assuming that no such selection has happened in cats, because there has been no need to... quite the reverse in fact!

Perhaps it's a thing with cats that some kittens that are destined to be pets don't hunt/kill/eat because at some point along the sequence, the kitten did not get the opportunity to practise the stage that came before, perhaps because of life events that happen to pet kittens, such as being rehomed just as one of the elements needed to be practised. But because some kittens are rehomed a little later, or maybe even a bit before, these individuals do get to practise the bits they need to, and these are the pet kittens that exhibit the whole shebang from start to finish, like Anniehoo's cat.

New Home

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I don't know much about cats, but I'd be confident that a cat wouldn't eat a warm rat either.

anniehoo wrote: »

Ye haven't met my cat so

Ditto for some of my cats - they DO hunt and eat rats - or half-eat them and come back to them later, they even catch the massive ones; other times they bring them to me as a present, even though I'm vegetarian... still, I appreciate the thought.

My grandmother - and many of her generation - used to say that the best mousers were the tabbies, especially those with a capital M on their foreheads - just look at the markings on the fur... Mind you, I had a tiny black and white cat years ago, and she was fierce!

Genghis Cant

New Home wrote: »

Ditto for some of my cats - they DO hunt and eat rats - or half-eat them and come back to them later, they even catch the massive ones; other times they bring them to me.......!

This is completely different to the OPs case. I'm well aware cats hunt. I'm well aware some of them eat or partially eat their prey. (In fact it annoys me that they prey upon our wildlife without a care, but that's another debate)
But I would be confident that the average cat does not eat a dead rat when it comes across one, warm or cold.

Reventon93

One of ours (Gremmie in particular) was on a killing spree for a while. I saw her with field mice, rats, and starlings. My mother had a heart attack when I told her :rolleyes: And they have access to food whenever they want as long as they leave some after theyre fed.

Its strange one. All our cats are technically outdoor cats, but weve an open type conservatory where they lounge on the outside couches. So its interesting to hear the outdoor vs indoor theory. Also, shes the most prolific hunter and shes the mother of the bunch. But I loved watching her take them out hunting when they were little

New Home

Genghis Cant wrote: »

This is completely different to the OPs case. I'm well aware cats hunt. I'm well aware some of them eat or partially eat their prey. (In fact it annoys me that they prey upon our wildlife without a care, but that's another debate)
But I would be confident that the average cat does not eat a dead rat when it comes across one, warm or cold.

I know it's different from the OPs case... That rat could've died from any reason, including poisoning (so I'm with the other posters who said it should be disposed of), I was simply agreeing with Anniehoo, as most of the cats I've ever had -and I've had loads - although well-fed, never had any problems hunting rats for food/out of instinct, etc, so in my personal experience I could easily say that the average cat does eat a dead rat. Sometimes,some cats may be attracted by the smell of a dead prey (if it's fresh) - whatever it is - and eat it anyway, that's why rat poison is so dangerous even for other animals...

Mine are indoors-outdoors animals -in fact, they're the real owners of this place, I'm only their butler...

I hate that they kill other wildlife too, like I hate the fact that some dogs killed some of my chickens and some of my other cats for fun/out of instinct, so whenever I can stop my cats' bad behaviour I do it, and if I see them with something that can still be rescued, I take it off them.

boomerang

New Home wrote: »

My grandmother - and many of her generation - used to say that the best mousers were the tabbies, especially those with a capital M on their foreheads

You have to say this in the Heart to Heart voiceover... Remember that 1970s show with Robert Wagner?

"M... for murder!"

New Home

Or in Hitchcock's voice... Good Evening. :cool:

DBB

boomerang wrote: »

You have to say this in the Heart to Heart voiceover... Remember that 1970s show with Robert Wagner?

Showing your age there Boomerang?:P
Their dog was called Freeway :pac:

Pumpkinseeds

New Home wrote: »

Ditto for some of my cats - they DO hunt and eat rats - or half-eat them and come back to them later, they even catch the massive ones; other times they bring them to me as a present, even though I'm vegetarian... still, I appreciate the thought.

My grandmother - and many of her generation - used to say that the best mousers were the tabbies, especially those with a capital M on their foreheads - just look at the markings on the fur... Mind you, I had a tiny black and white cat years ago, and she was fierce!

Yep, our little serial killer has a nice big M on his tabby and white head.