Knee brace for cruciate ligament tear in dog

FandangoRanger

My bichon frisé will soon be 12 and has a torn cruciate ligament. The vet is not particularly keen on surgery when considering the dog's age and the fact that it's a small breed.

I've been looking at various stifle braces and wondering if anyone had used one. All the ones I've seen need to be ordered from America and the more expensive ones require that a vet cast the dog's leg first.

DBB

Hmmm, his age would be a bit of a concern alright, but the small dog thing would surely act in his favour? The surgery is more successful in small dogs due to them, well, being smaller, lighter etc.
I looked into the stifle braces last year too, my god did I look into them, spent weeks and weeks researching them, mulling them over etc etc, but for a different problem. In the end I just wasn't all that convinced that despite being bespoke and well crafted etc, they wouldn't cause some chafing and discomfort, and they're SO expensive! You'd be disgusted if you had to give your dog breaks from it because of any discomfort!
A friend of mine recently had her similarly-sized, 11 year old dog in for cruciate surgery, his recovery has been excellent. I'd be tempted, I have to say, to opt for the surgery especially if your Bichon is a young 12!
Hard decision though.

muddypaws

Have a look at this link, and see if its of any help to you, its about treating cruciate tears without surgery.

http://www.puprehabfl.com/#!dog-rehabilitation-blog/c1ojl/information-on-cranial-cruciate-tears

FandangoRanger

Interesting article, by the way.

There's a made-to-measure Mutt Knee Brace for $229 or $299 for one that also cuffs the "good" leg. All the other ones I've seen are much more expensive. I've looked at some of the videos of dogs wearing their braces and running. The theory is that the brace stabilises the joint while allowing proper weight distribution; the end result being that with time enough scar tissue will form to replace the torn or ruptured ligament without causing the "good" leg to take all the strain. As in most cases, my dog's good leg is not a "great" leg and shows signs of damage as well. With surgery you have the recovery period to deal with while wondering how long the "good" leg is going to last before it gives out too.

tk123

FandangoRanger wrote: »

With surgery you have the recovery period to deal with while wondering how long the "good" leg is going to last before it gives out too.

You have a tiny dog though who can be lifted and carried as needed? My retriever had both his legs surgically straightened and the recovery was challenging at times but well worth it. If he had of been a smaller dog there would have been no worries/hassle of eg bringing him out to the loo and worrying about him slipping on the wooden floors (bandages slip on smooth surfaces), lifting him in and out of the car for check ups at the vets without breaking his leg and my back in the processes :pac: On his second op they used a different kind of plate - basically less 'hardware' and splint to stabilise the whole thing....Well as DBB has suggested it was a nightmare! Everyday I was re-patching the dressings to try and stop it cutting thru the bandages and wadding and into his leg so I'd say no matter how well they say a brace would fit you'd need to allow for problems. When it came off after 2 weeks his foot was badly ulcerated from it and the wound took a long time to heal - longer than the incision from the surgery even!! At the time my vet had said she wouldn't have let it stay on any longer because it was cutting into him so much so it came off just in time!

Would hydro be any help here? I found it brilliant post op for strengthening his leg and helping him to distribute his weight more evenly. We've kept the hydro up every since because it really make a difference for him.

FandangoRanger

Yup, my dog is only 7 kg and can be carried.

Someone whose bichon used to do agility told me that when her dog got a CCL tear she tried an expensive brace and that it didn't work out. In her case she thought that due to the dog's small size the brace was just too bulky--in spite of the fact that it was fashioned from a cast and in theory should have been perfect. Her dog fully recovered after several months with no confinement and engaging in normal activity although she never went back to doing agility. Apparently going down stairs and jumping down are both OK but mounting stairs and jumping up are to be avoided as they put too much strain on the joint.

Hydrotherapy is supposed to be good but is this common in Ireland?

tk123

FandangoRanger wrote: »

Hydrotherapy is supposed to be good but is this common in Ireland?

Yep there's a few of them. I use one in Coldwinters in Dublin (2 mins from exit 5 on the m50)

Heskey1971

Hi,

I would get a 2nd opinion.I had a cruciate surgery done on my St Bernard the year before last by Paul Kelly in Rathoath.He done a great job.

The post op and following 3-6 months are tough with a big 65kg dog but are much easier with a small dog.
A 2nd opinion will give you a 100% answer what to do.

Tom

tk123

If you're going for a second opinion OP Shane Guerin in Gilabbey Vets in Cork is the best in Ireland. He's the one who sorted my guy's legs.

FandangoRanger

My bichon is a "young" 12. In fact everyone is always surprised to discover his age. Given that the average life expectancy for the breed is 15 years, I question whether the long recovery period for a surgery that generally has an 80% success rate is worth it--particularly since the other "good" leg stands a good chance of rupturing as well.

I've looked at photos of worn cruciate ligaments and they resemble a mop head with the fibres going in all directions. My vet said that in the case of a big dog surgery would be recommended; with a small, senior dog it's not necessarily the best option.

Anyway, he's got his follow-up appointment later today and I'll see what the vet has to say. He was on Previcox for a while and did well on it.

Anyway, thanks for the vet recommendation.

FandangoRanger

By the way, how much is CCL surgery in Ireland? I'm in France at the moment and the vet quoted me €300 - €350. A friend from the UK was surprised that it was so cheap but I had heard between €250 - €300 ten years ago so I think that's pretty much the going rate for small dogs.

I'll be in Ireland for the next few months and hope I won't have any unpleasant surprises with regard to vet fees!

coathanger

FandangoRanger wrote: »

My bichon is a "young" 12. In fact everyone is always surprised to discover his age. Given that the average life expectancy for the breed is 15 years, I question whether the long recovery period for a surgery that generally has an 80% success rate is worth it--particularly since the other "good" leg stands a good chance of rupturing as well.

I've looked at photos of worn cruciate ligaments and they resemble a mop head with the fibres going in all directions. My vet said that in the case of a big dog surgery would be recommended; with a small, senior dog it's not necessarily the best option.

Anyway, he's got his follow-up appointment later today and I'll see what the vet has to say. He was on Previcox for a while and did well on it.

Anyway, thanks for the vet recommendation.

Hi there,
Sorry to be asking you this question after such a long time has passed! But did your bichon get the cruciate operation after ? The reason I ask , is my 14 year old Jack Russell has done his & he has slight heart murmur & I’m really in a quandary as he’s on ia crate rest at the min but is getting fed up 😩 & I just wanted to see how your dig was doing with or without the operation. Thanks

yogibear77

my 7yr old bichon has torn his cruciate also and is due for surgery this week. He has been on crate rest for 2 weeks now but no improvement so surgery it is.....we are up the walls at the thoughts of it.

We have been have been told by the vet that as he is a small dog he can tie the knee joint the bone....sorry not a very good explanation. The recovery time is still the same as if he was a big dog and having the more invasive operation.

Would really appreciate if anyone has any tips to help with his recovery in the coming weeks and also ways to keep his spirits up. He is the best little dog and we want do do everything we can to make him happy while he is in the crate.

Sorry don't want to derail the thread.

mymo

This is a very old thread, but I'll reply.
My Tibetan had cruciate surgery nearly 3 years ago, he was nearly 9, he's recovered really well and runs about like it never happened.
First thing vet said is no meals, give food in Kings or the treat mats etc, throughout the day in small amounts, second don't over feed, I reduced food by half, gave veggies for snacks, no high fat foods. Keeping them slim speeds recovery as less weight means less stress on knee.
Get a crate or playpen, don't let him move around, carry outside regularly to toilet, on lead so no wandering off. Bring straight back in.
We played games while lying on the floor as he got better, about 3 weeks in. Hiding treats under cups or hands, making him wait then asking where, grooming time helps, I trimmed up my boy myself before surgery to minimise matting. Don't let him over do it, no matter how guilty you feel. It was nearly 4 months before my boy was allowed off lead, in quite area to mooch around, it took over a year to build back up the muscle and strength.

tk123

Waaa well suspicions confirmed and Bailey will be getting his other knee done on tues. Obviously I don’t want him to have another surgery but I don’t want him in pain for the rest of his life either and he hasn’t been able to tolerate pain relief too well the last few times we’ve tried it. His is partial and I can’t risk it going completely. I won’t be crating this time and he was just too anxious last time around so yoga mats on the floor and baby gate to confine to one room at a time. We have lick mats, kongs, chews etc ready and I’ll be working from home as much as possible so I’m optimistic it’ll go smoothly.

yogibear77

In so sorry to hear that tk123. Our little man is going in this morning to get his done. Just want today over and him to be home with us.

tk123

yogibear77 wrote: »

In so sorry to hear that tk123. Our little man is going in this morning to get his done. Just want today over and him to be home with us.

Ah look we knew it could happen. We were in this for the long road when he had the first surgeries 8 and 9 years ago and with Lucy gone we just love him even more and want him to be happy and pain free!! I'm the same just want it done and him home - last time he stayed in but he's coming home the same day which will be just easier on him!

DBB

yogibear77 wrote: »

In so sorry to hear that tk123. Our little man is going in this morning to get his done. Just want today over and him to be home with us.

How'd it go for him yogibear?

aonb

yogibear77 wrote: »

my 7yr old bichon has torn his cruciate also and is due for surgery this week. He has been on crate rest for 2 weeks now but no improvement so surgery it is.....we are up the walls at the thoughts of it.

We have been have been told by the vet that as he is a small dog he can tie the knee joint the bone....sorry not a very good explanation. The recovery time is still the same as if he was a big dog and having the more invasive operation.

Would really appreciate if anyone has any tips to help with his recovery in the coming weeks and also ways to keep his spirits up. He is the best little dog and we want do do everything we can to make him happy while he is in the crate.

Sorry don't want to derail the thread.

I too have a "best little dog" - he had this surgery several years ago too - when he was approx 7 - we drove ourselves insane worrying about recovery etc - but being the best little dog, it was all very easy and ok - hes pretty relaxed and easy going, as long as he is with his humans he's good. We first of all cordoned off an area in the family room, with his bed, water bowl, toys etc. carried him out to the garden several times/day to pee and poo. You dog will be able to hobble happily on 3 legs. we would let him putter about for a minute or two each time in the garden - on his 3 legs. Reduced his food while he was having zero exercise, but did provide lots of large bones, and frozen kongs just for boredom busters. The worst part was for us - not being able to walk him - he was really ok - no pain really after the anaesthetic wore off - I would sit in his cordoned off area with him on my lap or on sofa beside me - NB he mustnt jump up on anything! - my dogs areant crate trained, if your guy is, then lucky you. try not to worry too much, if he is relaxed and easy going, its really not as bad as you imagine - he'll just veg and sleep and will enjoy the extra TLC - you can carry him around a bit to break monotony, and you can bring him in the car etc. The time will pass quickly when you can start tiny walks again. Good luck to you both!

aonb

tk123 wrote: »

Ah look we knew it could happen. We were in this for the long road when he had the first surgeries 8 and 9 years ago and with Lucy gone we just love him even more and want him to be happy and pain free!! I'm the same just want it done and him home - last time he stayed in but he's coming home the same day which will be just easier on him!

Poor Bailey - poorer you - hope it goes well, and he has a quick recovery... didnt comment at the time about Lucy - so very sad - hope Bailey is going ok without her -

yogibear77

Unfortunately the surgery didn't go ahead. The vet did more x Ray's before he was going to operate and discovered that there was more damage done than realised.The vet said that the operation he was going to do had a much higher risk of failing and would probably have to be re done. So he was recommending that we be referred on to have the one done where metal plates are put in. The decision was ours.

The thoughts of putting him through 2 or possibly 3 operations was a non runner. There is no way we could do it to him. So waiting on a call now from the other vet to arrange it for hopefully next week.

You could see he was in pain last night from his leg being manipulated, all he wanted was cuddles.

I just wish this was all over and he was back to himself running around and being a happy happy.

yogibear77

aonb wrote: »

I too have a "best little dog" - he had this surgery several years ago too - when he was approx 7 - we drove ourselves insane worrying about recovery etc - but being the best little dog, it was all very easy and ok - hes pretty relaxed and easy going, as long as he is with his humans he's good. We first of all cordoned off an area in the family room, with his bed, water bowl, toys etc. carried him out to the garden several times/day to pee and poo. You dog will be able to hobble happily on 3 legs. we would let him putter about for a minute or two each time in the garden - on his 3 legs. Reduced his food while he was having zero exercise, but did provide lots of large bones, and frozen kongs just for boredom busters. The worst part was for us - not being able to walk him - he was really ok - no pain really after the anaesthetic wore off - I would sit in his cordoned off area with him on my lap or on sofa beside me - NB he mustnt jump up on anything! - my dogs areant crate trained, if your guy is, then lucky you. try not to worry too much, if he is relaxed and easy going, its really not as bad as you imagine - he'll just veg and sleep and will enjoy the extra TLC - you can carry him around a bit to break monotony, and you can bring him in the car etc. The time will pass quickly when you can start tiny walks again. Good luck to you both!

Thank you so much for that reply, we are in bits over this and so stressed. He is spending quite a bit of time in the crate at the moment , which he wasn't in since being toilet trained as a puppy. The kitchen and living room is all open so we are trying to figure out how we can do something with it. Also it has shiny tiles. So I bought a roll of hard floor protector that builders use, I'm hoping that will stop him from slipping on the floor.

tk123

yogibear77 wrote: »

Unfortunately the surgery didn't go ahead. The vet did more x Ray's before he was going to operate and discovered that there was more damage done than realised.The vet said that the operation he was going to do had a much higher risk of failing and would probably have to be re done. So he was recommending that we be referred on to have the one done where metal plates are put in. The decision was ours.

The thoughts of putting him through 2 or possibly 3 operations was a non runner. There is no way we could do it to him. So waiting on a call now from the other vet to arrange it for hopefully next week.

You could see he was in pain last night from his leg being manipulated, all he wanted was cuddles.

I just wish this was all over and he was back to himself running around and being a happy happy.

Ah no OP but you're better holding off for the best success rate! I'd assume it was lateral suture your vet was going to do - if so yes it does have a high failure rate. My vet does TTA-Rapid and it really is rapid - he'll be ok for 5 min walks from day one, from week 2-4 we build to 20 mins, once we get to a certain stage we have to start jogging and climbing stairs etc etc . Queue everyone in the coffee shop staring over wondering wtf I'm doing going up and down the stairs to the church for 10 mins with a golden retriever lol :pac:

yogibear77

Yes it was the suture OP that he was supposed to get but because of his size it it had a high success rate but as there is more damage to the knee the rate of success decreased. I cant remember the technical name for what he is getting done now.....I was all over the place when talking to the vet yesterday. I know it involves metal plates etc. That sounds great that he would be up for a little bit straight away.

Still waiting for the referral vets to ring so I will know more once I speak to them.

As long as you don't start shouting "Adrian" going up and down the steps you should be ok ��

tk123

Sling and wrap around ice pack arrived today. I used a diy sling last time from a shopping bag lol but decided to upgrade this time around

yogibear77

That's great the stuff arrived, so you are all organised. Hope it all goes well next week.

yogibear77

Hi TK123

Any news on bailey yet? Hope you are doing ok.

tk123

yogibear77 wrote: »

Hi TK123

Any news on bailey yet? Hope you are doing ok.

Yep he's awake and sitting up There was bits of broken ligament when the opened up the joint so the vet said I did the right thing - I had been saying this morning "Am I doing the right thing " lol. He's to get another painkiller injection at 6:00 so I'll be keeping myself busy in work until then. I work 2 mins away so can get him as soon as he's ready

yogibear77

Delighted to hear it all went well. Every minute seems like and hour when you are waiting to bring him home. No doubt he will get lots of hugs and kisses when he comes home.

We still don't have a date for new OP turns out that cos he is so small they have to get screws specially made and that going to take a few weeks. So his confinement continues.

yogibear77

Hows bailey doing?

tk123

yogibear77 wrote: »

Hows bailey doing?

Thanks for thinking of him! . He’s doing fine. He was drugged up so let us lift him out of the car - this is my main worry because he doesn’t usually and we’d have to use the ramp which he’ll try to fly down. Was a bit unsettled / spaced out the first night so was snoozing yesterday. He’s a bit wobbly finding his feet so using the sling to slow him down when he needs it. I asked if they could put a dressing over the wound for the drive home so he wouldn’t go near it so he has a strip thing on it which is great - I haven’t needed the inflatable collar yet (he’s afraid of cones!). Back tomorrow for a check up! The bruising is starting to show too - it should be at its worst tomorrow. He’s so funny - as usual he was barking when I was in reception waiting - the nurse brought me upstairs to get him and he stopping barking and wagged his tail lol “hi...will you bring me home now?”

yogibear77

Delighted to hear he is doing so well. I love that no matter how sick they are they always manage a wag of the tail and are thrilled to see you.