Sleep, Nutrition, Strength Work and all that jazz...

pconn062

So I was having a look around a few training logs this morning and seen a few posts discussing nutrition, sleep and all that extra real life stuff that goes alongside our training. So how important are all of the above to you, and do you allow (or does your life allow) you to accommodate them as much as you should?

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?
How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"
Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

ecoli

pconn062 wrote: »

So I was having a look around a few training logs this morning and seen a few posts discussing nutrition, sleep and all that extra real life stuff that goes alongside our training. So how important are all of the above to you, and do you allow (or does your life allow) you to accommodate them as much as you should?

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?
How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"
Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

Very important and probably the area I need to work on most, the affects on hormones and muscle cell growth and repair is huge. I think I personally get away with it as my training seems to veer towards less than maximal intensity by aiming on strength development but I could imagine working at quicker paces there may be a greater chance of me breaking down as a result

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

Pretty good in this regard, used to think that food was all about the weight aspect but it's so much more. Training is about stressing and adapting however if we don't have the right building blocks we can't repair effectively after hard sessions. The recovery aspect of training is where we make the gains from the hard sessions so why ignore one of the most crucial aspects? Not suggesting we become Nutritional Nazi's but a generally (roughly 85-90%) clean diet will have a huge impact on your performance and how you feel day to day.

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

Yes try to manage 1-2 resistance training days a week and have to admit I haven't had so much as a niggle since I started. Has also had a positive impact performance and body composition given the boost in metabolism that resistance training has the the approx 15 hours post exercise

PaulieC

pconn062 wrote:

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

I love sleeping, but I'm not very good at it. I am forcing myself to get up early (early for me - 6 a.m.) two mornings a week to get out and do the easy runs in my marathon program. Consequently, I am loving the lie-ins on the other work days until 6:50 . I'd also love to sleep on longer at weekends, but a combination of kids and good old puritanical guilt about wasting the day gets me up early, usually before 9. I do love getting the long weekend runs out of the way before noon though, so that helps.

pconn062 wrote:

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

A little bit of both. I usually start the day well, but trail off to biscuits and chocolate by evening time.

pconn062 wrote:

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

Token levels

pconn062 wrote:

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

It seems that this time of year (Aug/Sept/Oct), I tend to go out more at weekends. It's a combination of birthdays, anniversaries, weekends away that make it very difficult. For example, last weekend I was at a wedding on Saturday, there was a free bar for a lot of the night and I got home at about 2:30 very much the worse for wear. I was scheduled to do a 19-mile lsr the next day and I needed to get it done early, so I rolled out of bed at about 9:30 after about an hour of internal debate and out the door as I knew I wouldn't do it later. Forgot my hat and got nicely toasted on my head.
I do like the few pints and have an ongoing conflict between being a better/faster runner and enjoying my life with friends and family. No clear winner yet sadly :P

Cleanman

PaulieC wrote: »

A little bit of both. I usually start the day well, but trail off to biscuits and chocolate by evening time.





I do like the few pints and have an ongoing conflict between being a better/faster runner and enjoying my life with friends and family. No clear winner yet sadly :P

+1m to this. Although I've been pretty much injured for the last 5/6 months so biscuits and chocolate have been sneaking into the diet at lunch and going on the beer at weekends has been a clear winner. Well and truley sick of the rut I'm in as a result so really looking forward to cleaning it all up....soon, I promise:D

Tigerandahalf

It is difficult to know regards sleep. Some people function easily with about 6 hours sleep and are jumping out of the bed in the morning. I wouldn't be a morning person and 8 hours is a minimum just to function. 10 hours sometimes is no bother. However, sometimes I do find going over the 8 means it is harder to get to sleep the following night. For me a lot depends on having a relaxed mind going to bed. If I quickly fall asleep even better. However, it can often take me upto an hour to fall asleep.

Tigerandahalf

As for core work I do about 20 minutes at least a couple of times a week. I am sure it helps but then again I have never had a history of muscle injuries.
Nutrition - I eat pretty much whatever I like but in general my diet would be pretty good anyway. I have no problem having the occasional pizza, chips or a fizzy drink. I would drink a glass of white wine or a beer before bed sometimes and find it helps to aid sleep and relax myself.

yaboya1

Cleanman wrote: »

so really looking forward to cleaning it all up....soon, I promise:D

Cleanman by name, Cleanman by nature

career move

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

I love my sleep. I'd easily sleep for at least 8hrs/night and sometimes if I'm up really early I'll sleep in the afternoon too. Cat naps are great. If I'm well rested I'll generally wake in the morning before my alarm clock. I would say adequate sleep is the single most important factor in your training because it allows your body to repair and regenerate, decreases the level of stress hormones and imflammatory mediators, decreases blood pressure, stabilises your metabolism and mentally you're more positive and better able to deal with adverse situations

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

Nutrition is important. No point putting diesel into a petrol car but at the same time I think balance is important. I've been using myfitnesspal sporadically for the last few years usually if I want to lose weight for a race but I'm using it more often now (I'm on a 30 day streak at the moment) just to keep a better track of exactly what I'm eating. I tend to exercise a lot and eat a lot so I find it useful. I'm more conscious of how much protein I'm eating since I got injured and every week I'll have a look to see if I've been eating enough iron and if I need to I'll take an iron tablet. My diet is ok I think. I eat most foods so it's easy enough to get a good balance. As long as I'm under my calorie goal then if I feel like eating chocolate or biscuits I will.

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

I probably should do more than I do. I think it's useful if you know where your weaknesses are and then can do exercises to target them. As regards injury prevention, everybody is different so I guess you just have to see what works for you. At the moment I feel the exercises I was given by the physio to strengthen my glutes and hip flexors are having a positive effect on my training.

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

Training is good to make you feel better when your unhappy but I train better when I'm happy

dukeraoul

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

No. I have two kids under 3 and they are both completely bonkers. I haven't had an uninterrupted night of sleep in at least 2 years...

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

My preferred diet is donuts, beer and pizza. I've actually run pretty decently on all three. That said- I do think cleaning up a diet/ dropping booze can make a pretty big difference (in fairness my diet is actually usually ok as I love fruit and veg, prefer lean cuts of meat and don't eat a ton of sweets or the like)

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

I have an its really helpful. Was doing some functional training stuff for a while...

Duanington

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

I probably don't get enough on a consistent level but I do notice that when I am getting 7+ hours each night over a run of a week or so, running seems easier, more enjoyable and sessions are less intimidating. Its a factor, no doubt about it. Consistency has been an issue for me in the past and not getting enough sleep was a factor in that.
I doubt there are many of us amateur runners get enough sleep, I know a lot of pros would sleep in the afternoon too, rugby players, footballers too.
In an ideal world, I'd get 8 hours a night but that doesn't happen too often.


How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

It used to be a case of I run so I can eat what I want but over the past year I've looked into the nutrition side of things. The more I got into structured training, the more I paid attention to the fuel I was using ! I probably need every little advantage I can get so in my mind, recovering with the right fuel is important.

Some of my friends think I'm a little obsessed ( because I do such crazy things as bringing fruit\nuts to work) but I suppose it has just become the norm to prepare ahead for meals when I'm in work or tight for time - also to make sure those meals are the right balance of what works for me.
Veg, lean meats, wholegrain pasta\rice\breads, fruit, nuts are the norm but I do switch off a bit when out with pals or treating the kids to a takeaway.
I'd say 5\6 days a week I'm pretty strict about sticking to "good" foods, I relax a little on the others.


Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

I have a long history of hamstring pulls and calf strains and have often threatened to come back stronger with lots of strength\core work to keep said injuries at bay. Typically, I didn't do the work, came back and broke down again. About 2 years ago, I decided to take things a bit more seriously and I got into a good routine of doing core\strength work 3 times per week ( on average) - I can only say that I haven't had any significant injuries since.
I'm quite a skinny lanky bloke so maybe my build leaves me wide open to injury without working on this kind of thing - maybe there are other factors too that have helped me stay injury free ( like more structure to my plans etc)
What I can say is that I haven't been injured since I started including it and I definitely feel better for doing it.
it actually doesn't take up that much time and is worth it in my opinion - 20-30 minutes, a few times a week.

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

The real world can be a demanding aul fecker

corny

I remember i commented on a thread, not too dissimilar to this, ages ago on the importance of diet. I used to think i could eat what i wanted and it wouldn't effect me. Well i was wrong. Suffered a fair amount of injuries since i took up running and now i'm convinced my poor diet was responsible.

Since eating better (very strict these days) i've made great improvements. I train harder, recover quicker and generally enjoy running far more.

Don't know why it took me by surprise because it makes sense intuitively if you think about it.

dna_leri

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?
I try to get 7 hours during the week and 8 at weekends, then I'm ok. If I go below that more than twice a week, everything goes to hell, including my running.

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!" 
I do think about and work on my diet/nutrition. When I started running I cut out most junk food and cut-down on a lot of other stuff. Since then it has been about improving the quality of each meal. Making my own lunch was the single biggest improvement - breakfast and dinners have always been ok.
The weakness can be afternoon and night time snacks. I have to make sure I have a supply of the right kind of foods, especially in the afternoon when the choices from the canteen snack machine are all bad. As long as the quality is good I can pretty much eat as much as I want.

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?
I try to do body-weight strength work every 2nd day (on recovery days). I should do weights every week but its often the first thing to give when time is short - run or lift? Run wins every-time.
I was looking back over my log yesterday and noticed that my most consistent weight training period came just before my 800m PB. Coincidence, maybe? I used to think that strength work was just about preventing injuries but it might be more than that.

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?
Work and other life stresses are a big negative factor that effect all of the above. Even if the nutrition, sleep and ancillary work are good, stress will fnck you up. Well, me anyway. When I am under pressure/busy and home and/or work, my running will suffer. Running is good for relieving stress but not if you are hammering your repeats and tempos and racing hard. We all need off-time too. Sometimes that's by running easy for a while or even (shock horror) letting go and doing nothing.

pconn062

Some really interesting answers here, suppose I better answer myself!

Sleep: I'm really lucky in that (at the moment) I have no kids and much of my work doesn't start until late morning or afternoon so getting 8 hours sleep an night is usually not an issue. A few weeks ago I was crazy at work, getting up at 6am and working 12 hour days and the lack of sleep really became a factor, I felt pretty terrible while running.

Diet: Is ok, not great but ok. I've made a few changes recently by increasing my protein intake especially after hard sessions. However I am prone to the odd binge on junk food and also usually have a few beers every week. My weight is ok though (5'10, 147 pounds) but it's definitely an area I could improve.

SW: I do strength work about 3 days a week, usually at home and like dna_leri, it's usually body-weight work focused on the legs. Also started a circuit training class for runners next week which will help hopefully.

pconn062

Decent (if not groundbreaking) article on sleep and training here:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/recovery/better-sleeping-for-better-running_77427

Also in terms of diet, do any of you supplement your diet with extra protein in the form of supplements. I've been trying to increase my protein uptake recently but through diet rather than supplements (shakes or whatever) but curious to get some other peoples opinions.

Cleanman

pconn062 wrote: »

Decent (if not groundbreaking) article on sleep and training here:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/recovery/better-sleeping-for-better-running_77427

Also in terms of diet, do any of you supplement your diet with extra protein in the form of supplements. I've been trying to increase my protein uptake recently but through diet rather than supplements (shakes or whatever) but curious to get some other peoples opinions.

Back in my GAA "hayday", I was lifting pretty heavy weights and was finding it very hard to recover after gym sessions. I was pretty clueless about diet. I did a bit of research and discovered my diet was appauling with not nearly enough protein. I just couldn't eat enough protein and the change was hard so I starting taking shakes and the like. I found them very hard on my stomach for some reason so stopped taking them after a while. Bloody expensive too - or at least they used to be!

career move

pconn062 wrote: »

Decent (if not groundbreaking) article on sleep and training here:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/recovery/better-sleeping-for-better-running_77427

Also in terms of diet, do any of you supplement your diet with extra protein in the form of supplements. I've been trying to increase my protein uptake recently but through diet rather than supplements (shakes or whatever) but curious to get some other peoples opinions.

The only way I can get enough protein is if I have eggs for breakfast or lunch and meat or fish for dinner. I drink a good bit of milk as well

Duanington

pconn062 wrote: »

Decent (if not groundbreaking) article on sleep and training here:

http://running.competitor.com/2014/05/recovery/better-sleeping-for-better-running_77427

Also in terms of diet, do any of you supplement your diet with extra protein in the form of supplements. I've been trying to increase my protein uptake recently but through diet rather than supplements (shakes or whatever) but curious to get some other peoples opinions.

I get protein from my diet where possible but there are times, especially in the morning when I just throw a scoop of whey protein into a glass of milk ( after my porridge or whatever) because I don't have time to make something else.

I find them a little "iffy" on the stomach though and would only us it the odd morning or sometimes directly after a tough run ( with some fruit or something too though)

I have found that eating some protein before going to bed helps me recover nicely for the next morning - usually just some eggwhites on a slice of toast

pconn062

Thanks guys, I've heard that the shakes can be hard on the stomach and to be honest I'm not too keen on them, but getting protein into you after a hard session is not always easy. Milk is not an option for me as I have an intolerance to it but last week I made a nice homemade protein shake with soy milk, peanut butter and some chocolate powder, worked pretty well!

xElDeeX

pconn062 wrote: »

Thanks guys, I've heard that the shakes can be hard on the stomach and to be honest I'm not too keen on them, but getting protein into you after a hard session is not always easy. Milk is not an option for me as I have an intolerance to it but last week I made a nice homemade protein shake with soy milk, peanut butter and some chocolate powder, worked pretty well!

Throw an egg in there too and put in the blender...ups the protein and makes it frothy

RayCun

my diet in general is pretty good (eggs and muesli in the morning, ham and cheese through the day, soup for lunch, decent dinner, plenty of fruit) but I think I need to work on my post long run (maybe generally post-session nutrition. Maybe even go down the dreaded protein shake path...

KielyUnusual

RayCun wrote: »

my diet in general is pretty good (eggs and muesli in the morning, ham and cheese through the day, soup for lunch, decent dinner, plenty of fruit) but I think I need to work on my post long run (maybe generally post-session nutrition. Maybe even go down the dreaded protein shake path...

This is your only man Ray!



I'm not strong on the nutrition and supplementary work but for some unknown reason I've very much got in to this. Hmmmm :rolleyes:

pconn062

xElDeeX wrote: »

Throw an egg in there too and put in the blender...ups the protein and makes it frothy

Raw egg?? EWWWWW!

ger664

Ha Ha reminds me of my youth. Grandmother always thought I needed a bit of building up so whenever possible she feed me a dose of the following

Half bottle of Guinness with raw egg and half a pint of Freshly milked cows Milk cream and all.

xElDeeX

pconn062 wrote: »

Raw egg?? EWWWWW!

Don't knock it until you try it. Some kind of milk, a ripe banana and one egg whizzed up in a blender makes an amazing recovery drink and is really cheap.

Those protein shakes are made out of the watery stuff left over after cheese making....and then the companies have the gall to charge a fortune for it! Stick to real food if you can and if it's got a label on it or an ingredient list then it's not real food!

Rant over

RayCun

KielyUnusual wrote: »

This is your only man Ray!

I go through a few litres a week
Might want something more post-session though

average_runner

RayCun wrote: »

I go through a few litres a week
Might want something more post-session though

I drink that for a post recovery after 15k run

KielyUnusual

RayCun wrote: »

I go through a few litres a week
Might want something more post-session though

Well, its all the rage in Crusaders these days post session. That and the yoghurts for some reason.

ecoli

RE: Protein

Personally I tend to try and get most of my protein from food sources however there are times when I will use supplements (shakes/bars) normally after a gym session simply for convenience, leave powder in a shaker in bag and add water when leaving gym to keep me ticking over till I have time to get home and make something.

Also the odd time add two scoops to a breakfast smoothie (Natural yoghurt, strawberries/blueberries, protein powder and half spoon of peanut butter works a treat)

However there plenty of ways to get the extra requirements in during day

- Eggs are your friend when it comes to breakfast (scrambled eggs, omelette or french toast with brown bread)

- Tuna - Can pick up a tin for next to nothing in Aldi and handy to throw into a salad for quick and easy ( feta cheese also a good one for changing it up or chicken breast if you have a bit of time)

Only other supplement I take is a pre workout BCAA supplement simply for a good energy booster (like red bull on crack but works for me for early morning gym sessions when stuck for time)

Other than that focus all on eating clean and the rest looks after itself

jebuz

Been meaning to reply to this now for a while

Do you get enough sleep? Is it important?

Generally 8+ hours of undisturbed bliss, and yes I'll enjoy it now while I can! It's hugely important as we all probably know, both mentally and physiologically. We make our actual gains in a rested state, the body recovers from bouts of exercise and our immune rebuilds for the next session. We all know the effects a lack of sleep can have on your racing, just look at dukeraoul in the Athlone HM recently, there's somebody who puts in the work in training but a serious lack of sleep scuppered his race. Some can survive on 4-6 hours and still perform well but for the majority of us I think 8 hours is where you need to be.

How much do you focus on nutrition? Or is it a case of "I run a lot so I can eat what I damn well please!"

I wish! It's taken time but I've realised that nutrition plays a huge huge role in performance, so much that I said huge twice. Some of us runners get away with eating whatever and whenever they like and still perform very well but then you have to ask, how much better could they perform if they cleaned up their diet? You want to perform at your best, so why not eat the foods that will allow you to do that. It requires a lot of discipline and a basic knowledge but coupled with a burning ambitions to succeed, you just naturally start reaching for the healthier options. I find it myself in the canteen at lunch, I'm tempted a lot to go for the naughty greasy options but then I just think it's only food, it'll be gone in 5 minutes. Why do all the training if I'm not going to fuel myself properly? That prompts me to head for the salad and cold meat bar and I leave feeling nicely full and smug.

Just because we go out and run 60+ miles a week or whatever shouldn't mean we have a free pass to gorge on junk, it doesn't work that way. Ok it's Sunday and you've done a 20 miler but doesn't mean you come home and eat a packet of biscuits, 3 donuts and a bottle of coke followed by a huge dinner. Mmm donuts. A little junk is fine and as long as you eat cleanly 90% of the time, you're on the right track and you'll get your just rewards. I think a gung ho, military style approach to nutrition can backfire. You need to be able to relax and reward yourself, have a cake, a few beers or whatever, it's good for the mind as long as you don't kid yourself and make sure it actually is a treat.

I believe my (somewhat unexpected) gains this year have been inline with my reignited focus on nutrition amongst other factors. I discovered a way of eating that works with my lifestyle and my training though I'm still constantly refining it and trying new things.

My advice would be to question the conventional wisdom when it comes to running nutrition, not necessarily avoid it but to just look at the alternatives such as the high fat approach, cutting down on wheat, experiment running without gels, trying new foods and fuelling strategies. When it comes down to it, it's completely individual so blindly following someone else advice without thinking about it may not work, do the research and find out what works for you.

Do you do any strength work? Does it help keep injuries at bay?

At the moment I fit in 2 strength sessions a week, this can vary but that's what I can manage right now while running 80+ miles. Does it keep injuries at bay? I can't say for sure but apart from a few niggles, I've not had a major injury in the 3 years I've been running so I would lean towards yes. I generally keep the sessions short (no more than 45 mins) but I lift heavy and try work out the whole body along with some core exercises. Avoid the machines and strengthen your stabilising muscles by doing squats, bench presses, pull/chin ups, dips, barbell rows, curls etc. Some say having a stronger upper body pays off in the latter stages of racing when your core is weakening, I do find that's true as I tend to maintain good form right until the end. If you can fit it in great, it's not a magic bullet in terms of performance and definitely not required to succeed. I can't imagine it impacts my results hugely but I sometimes I enjoy a session as it breaks up the monotony of running all the time and if it gives me a slight performance increase along with injury prevention then great!

Any other external factors that can effect training in a positive or negative way?

I think the people you actually train with can have a huge effect on your training. I find running with guys that I know are better than me brings me on a lot. I might not be able to keep up with them but running on the same track as them or just even warming up with them inspires me and drives me to train hard so I can get to their level. When I used to train on my own, I didn't have that, I didn't have a visual on where I wanted to be as I was my only motivator. If you're not in a club, get into one and I guarantee you'll progress quicker than you expect.

Maximus Alexander

For protein after a run I take one jar of 97% peanut butter and one spoon and just go to town. Man I love peanut butter.

If this is a bad idea, allow me to remain ignorant.

career move

It's nearly impossible to get proper Greek yoghurt but Liberte do a natural strained greek style yoghurt which I can get in Tesco that has 9.6g Protein per 100g which is pretty high.