Charter Revision: Veterinary Advice

Tokyo

Hi all,

back in July, we mentioned in the healthcheck thread that we'd be amending our charter to include veterinary advice - in particular to strike a balance between the posting of home cures and remedies, and taking animal welfare into consideration and eliminate as many grey areas as possible.

The reason behind this first and foremost is animal welfare, followed by liability for boards as to what gets posted here. However we also recognise that quite a few home remedies have a valid place in being posted here, so we're trying to strike a balance.

Please take the time to read the amendment below, and give us any feedback or suggestions that you might have.

Revision to the F&F Charter

Veterinary Advice:

Posts looking for advice for sick animals have been a source of concern to boards.ie for some years. The problem is that veterinary diagnosis is a learnt, professional skill so it is just not possible, or safe, to remotely diagnose an animal through an internet forum. Welfare concerns demand that animals are treated quickly and effectively. Even the best-intended lay-advice may not be sufficient and may delay seeking proper assistance. Additionally lay-advice may lead to inappropriate drug use, which increases the onset of drug-resistant strains of bacteria.

We also have to recognise that there are now legal rules governing the sale and use of animal remedies. It brings Irish farming into disrepute for these rules to be openly flouted, or for illegal activities/remedies to be suggested.

For these reasons a change is being made to the charter. We recognise that animals are not human and that there are economic aspects of treating animals that do not exist with humans. We recognise that there needs to be a forum for the discussion of animal health issues. Consequently the changes, detailed below, may be subject to change in an effort to find a workable compromise.

Animal Welfare:

It is the duty of people involved with animals in farming to properly treat and look after the animals under their care. Mention of procedures/actions/treatments that show a lack of respect for animal welfare will not be tolerated.

Offering Diagnosis:

A competent diagnosis can only be made by a vet and should not be attempted over the internet. It is permissible to recount similar cases and the diagnosis, especially if they had veterinary involvement. Readers will have to be aware of the dangers inherent in making a decision from such advices. Similarly, once an animal has been examined and treated by a vet, there is nothing to be gained by remote second-guessing.

Offering Treatment:

Discussion of over-the-counter medicines is fine. For the more day-to-day conditions treatments can be discussed, but specific (POM) antibiotics should not be prescribed. Mentioning previous similar experiences, particularly where veterinary help was sought, or suggesting supportive therapy or preventative methods is fine. For serious or uncertain conditions, suggesting a treatment is not allowed and will be subject to infraction.

Traditional Treatments:

Conventional medicines must undergo licensing and prove their safety and efficacy. A lot of treatments animals were given in the past are no longer needed, as better treatments of a higher standard are available. Safe ancillary treatments that compliment, or are part of, conventional therapy are allowed to be discussed. Treatments such as poultices, iodine, bread soda, glycerine and similar are safe for mention.

Specifically prohibited from discussion/suggestion as treatments are:

Waste/burnt oil, Creosote, Turpentine, White Spirits, Jeyes Fluid, Domestos. (this list will be amended in future)

Posts recommending such home remedies (or similar) will be removed, and repeat offenders may be infracted.



Hopefully, the result of all this will be to allow the more common ailments to be discussed as before, while preventing attempts at remote diagnosis of the more involved cases and stop the speculative medicinal suggestions.

The discussion of previous experiences is allowed unless it falls prey to other exceptions (i.e. questionable medicinal use).


For more information on animal welfare, the current legislation can be found in the following links:

• Teagasc's Animal Welfare Guidelines For Beef Cattle Farms
• Department of Agriculture, Food & the Marine - Animal Health & Welfare

In summary:

• No complicated diagnosis and No speculative prescribing.
• If you wouldn't say it to a Department Veterinary Inspector or write it down in your Veterinary Remedies Record, don't post it here.

TUBBY

mike_ie wrote: »

Hi all,

back in July, we mentioned in the healthcheck thread that we'd be amending our charter to include veterinary advice - in particular to strike a balance between the posting of home cures and remedies, and taking animal welfare into consideration and eliminate as many grey areas as possible.

The reason behind this first and foremost is animal welfare, followed by liability for boards as to what gets posted here. However we also recognise that quite a few home remedies have a valid place in being posted here, so we're trying to strike a balance.

Please take the time to read the amendment below, and give us any feedback or suggestions that you might have.

i think you need a shot of nuflor mike

Genghis Cant

TUBBY wrote: »

i think you need a shot of nuflor mike

Or a couple of pink tablets :-)

Kovu

Genghis Cant wrote: »

Or a couple of blue tablets :-)

FYP:D

Tokyo

If someone mentions blue tablets there's going to be trouble....

Kovu

mike_ie wrote: »

If someone mentions blue tablets there's going to be trouble....

*&#%

Nekarsulm

So obviously no mention of "bias binding" and the use of a bicycle pump for treatment of a common bovine ailment?

greysides

The bicycle pump is an old method used to treat Milk Fever and it worked then, no matter how nuts it sounds.

'Bias binding'..... never heard of that. Is that the tying off of the teats before the application of the Customised Pulsatile Pneumatic Inflation Device?

Nekarsulm

yeah, used to tie off the test and keep the pressure in. ask your Granny what it is !

(actually its Soft cotton tape/ribbon type thing, used for putting a hem on a skirt or whatever)

just do it

The world's gone a bit too litigious when a farmer who takes advise from an anonymous poster on an internet site can potentially sure the host company. Is individual responsibility a thing of the past?!

Anyway boards is right to protect itself.

blue5000

Mike You forgot creosote on your 'banned' list.:eek:

Tokyo

just do it wrote: »

Is individual responsibility a thing of the past?!

Unfortunately, a lot of the time these day, yes,

Tokyo

blue5000 wrote: »

Mike You forgot creosote on your 'banned' list.:eek:

Taken on board. Thanks.

Tokyo

I want to thank everyone who took the time to read over this for us, and those who offered amendments and suggestions. As always, it's appreciated.

Veterinary Advice section has been added to the charter - that should be the last major change to the charter for the immediate future (thank God... ) With that, unstickying this thread, and letting it drift off into the depths of the forum...

just do it

mike_ie wrote: »

that should be the last major change to the charter for the immediate future (thank God... )

Unless of course there's a major dispute between the posters and mods, mods and regular posters disappear unexpectedly and there is a share of bickering for a while after, and a new band of mods take up the reins. But of course, something like that would never happen


Seriously though, I think the current team of mods deserve praise for what is ultimately an unpaid hobby

Kovu

just do it wrote: »

Unless of course there's a major dispute between the posters and mods, mods and regular posters disappear unexpectedly and there is a share of bickering for a while after, and a new band of mods take up the reins. But of course, something like that would never happen; )

But there's no chance of that happening is there JDI. Is there??!:pac:

just do it

.Kovu. wrote: »

But there's no chance of that happening is there JDI. Is there??!:pac:

Jeez Kovu that was quick. I'd hit send too soon and was just editing!

just do it

Got to go, better not miss the school run :rolleyes: